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Wales Squad for 2018 Summer Tour

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Topic: Wales Squad for 2018 Summer Tour
Posted By: NobbySosban
Subject: Wales Squad for 2018 Summer Tour
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:04pm
Rob Evans (Scarlets) (25 Caps) Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (8 Caps) Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (18 Caps) 
Elliot Dee (Dragons) (7 Caps) Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (2 Caps) 
Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (31 Caps) Samson Lee (Scarlets) (38 Caps) Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (2 Caps) 
Adam Beard (Ospreys) (2 Caps) Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (62 Caps) Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues) (4 Caps) Luke Charteris (Bath) (74 Caps) Cory Hill (Dragons) (15 Caps) (Co-Captain) 
James Davies (Scarlets) (1 Cap) Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps) (Co-Captain) Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (20 Caps) Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues) (11 Caps) Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (17 Caps)`

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets) (8 Caps) Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (32 Caps) Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (*Uncapped) 
Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (15 Caps) Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (8 Caps) 
Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (6 Caps) Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (4 Caps) Scott Williams (Scarlets) (55 Caps) 
Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors) (2 Caps) Hallam Amos (Dragons) (15 Caps) Steff Evans (Scarlets) (9 Caps) George North (Northampton Saints) (73 Caps) Tom Prydie (Scarlets) (7 Caps)

13* Scarlets in 31-man squad - and Prydie's in... ShockedClap
(*although, by the time they go, 2 of them will be Ospreys Cry)

Only 2 outside-halves named, so either Patch & Anscombe will rotate as full-back or Amos will be at 15, I guess.
Jake & Fox injured (as are Webb & Owen Williams), Ken & Pence rested along with A-WJ, Biggar, Sanjay, Baldwin, Tips & Faletau.
5 locks, perhaps a bit surprising to see Bradley & Charteris both touring, but Gats & Co maybe think some experienced engine-room players are needed on tour. Tomos Williams is the only uncapped player in the squad.


Gatland quotes from the Press Conference:
On Prydie: "He has played well this year but has had a lot of injuries. We thought he carried well at the weekend and finished when he had the opportunity. We didn’t want to put him on the scrapheap so we gave him an opportunity."
Full-back selection: "Hallam Amos can play there. Gareth Anscombe and Patchell can cover it. We see Hallam as a player who will play there on the tour. He brings a left-footed option and this is an opportunity for him."
Scarlets players preparation if they make PRO14 Final: "If they have less preparation we will just have to deal with that. If the Scarlets get through we will have to bear that in mind."




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Twitterer @ebenezer68



Replies:
Posted By: joni_bach
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:06pm
So same Scarlets players as in the 6N except Ken has a summer off. Cubby retains his place, well done and Prydie's in - very well done!


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:08pm
Very well done to all involved, great to see Tom there.


Posted By: Bryn@man
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:14pm
Good to see Hadleigh add to his 55 caps...


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:19pm
As equally pleased to see the likes of Elias, Wyn, Shingler, Cubby and Patch get the opportunity as I am to see Jake, Foxy, Ken get the summer off.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:29pm
Very well done to all the Scarlets - and I'm especially pleased for Cubby, who hasn't had a fair crack of the whip to date - he surely must be given more game time on this tour.

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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:32pm
I would like to see a back three of Steff, Adams & Amos with Amos at FB.


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:40pm
 I know the Scarlets representation should make me proud, but I'm afraid one or two look jaded and would benefit more from a complete break, and as always the chance of further injuries always hangs over the benefit and experienced gained on these tours. Besides I think they would gain more from time with our coaches. 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:43pm
There will be some pretty worn out bodies out there after this tour like Samson,Rob,Shings and Cubby and in the backs Cawdor,Patchell ,HP and Steff. Sorry to see Rawlins miss out though.

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:46pm
13 Scarlets
6 Blues
5 Outside Wales
4 Ospreys
3 Dragons
 
Wonder how that very conveniently calculated stat about the Ospreys supplying the most players to Wales since regionalism is looking lately.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:55pm
Da iawn wir to all the lads selceted.

Hard luck Lewis Rawlins.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Very well done to all the Scarlets - and I'm especially pleased for Cubby, who hasn't had a fair crack of the whip to date - he surely must be given more game time on this tour.


I don't think he will get much given that Ellis Jenkins has been named as the (co) captain.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Very well done to all the Scarlets - and I'm especially pleased for Cubby, who hasn't had a fair crack of the whip to date - he surely must be given more game time on this tour.


I don't think he will get much given that Ellis Jenkins has been named as the (co) captain.

could see a back row of ellis jenkins, navidi and cubby.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Very well done to all the Scarlets - and I'm especially pleased for Cubby, who hasn't had a fair crack of the whip to date - he surely must be given more game time on this tour.


I don't think he will get much given that Ellis Jenkins has been named as the (co) captain.

could see a back row of ellis jenkins, navidi and cubby.


Can't see Gatland not playing Shingler after his excellent 6 Nations. FWIW I think Shingler would get the Welsh rugby player of the season award if such a thing existed.


Posted By: ChrisX
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:47pm
6 Shingler 7 Jenkins 8 Moriarty?


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by ChrisX ChrisX wrote:

6 Shingler 7 Jenkins 8 Moriarty?


Thats what I think he will go with, though at the same time I wouldn't be surprised to see Navidi at 8.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 3:55pm
Think Cubby's recent form puts him well behind both Navidi & Jenkins. It would be fitting of Gatland's logic to pick him against South Africa when he has ignored him for the best part of 3 seasons when he was head & shoulders above any 7 in Europe!!!!


Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 4:01pm
Congratulations to all Scarlets selected and Sam on his selection for Scotland


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 4:46pm
I'm a bit surprised that the Blues' 10 (Jarod Evans?) has not made the squad - he's been excellent recently, and picked at 10 in preference to Anscombe. Another example of the coaches' conservatism, maybe?

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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I'm a bit surprised that the Blues' 10 (Jarod Evans?) has not made the squad - he's been excellent recently, and picked at 10 in preference to Anscombe. Another example of the coaches' conservatism, maybe?


Gatland said

Originally posted by Gatland Gatland wrote:

We're looking for Jarrod Evans to continue developing & stake a claim


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Think Cubby's recent form puts him well behind both Navidi & Jenkins. It would be fitting of Gatland's logic to pick him against South Africa when he has ignored him for the best part of 3 seasons when he was head & shoulders above any 7 in Europe!!!!


And Cubby’s comments about Wales haven’t done him anymore favours. It’s as if he doesn’t want to play.


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 5:24pm
Anscombe is clearly one of Gatland's favourites, and although he is a good dependable 10, it says a lot that the Blues think they play better with Evans at 10. Both players have a range of skills, and are adept at seeing where the space lies in the opposition ranks and using it to attack.  Of the two though, I feel that Evans is the best at getting his backs moving and most likely to make a break himself.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Think Cubby's recent form puts him well behind both Navidi & Jenkins. It would be fitting of Gatland's logic to pick him against South Africa when he has ignored him for the best part of 3 seasons when he was head & shoulders above any 7 in Europe!!!!


And Cubby’s comments about Wales haven’t done him anymore favours. It’s as if he doesn’t want to play.

I know he made some unwise comments a while ago - but that's in the past, isn't it? Has he said anything recently?


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Anscombe is clearly one of Gatland's favourites, and although he is a good dependable 10, it says a lot that the Blues think they play better with Evans at 10. Both players have a range of skills, and are adept at seeing where the space lies in the opposition ranks and using it to attack.  Of the two though, I feel that Evans is the best at getting his backs moving and most likely to make a break himself.


And on a day when Prydie gets himself back into the squad, it is interesting to see how Gatland's policy on picking youth has changed. Jarod Evans is already a very high class flyhalf and should be in the squad. Well done Tom- I hope you get a chance in the summer and really break through next season.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 09 May 2018 at 4:12pm
bbc wales says nothing about the absence of liam williams or hapenny?


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 09 May 2018 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

bbc wales says nothing about the absence of liam williams or hapenny?

Well all the Lions who played most of the tour are being rested. Judging by Liam's poor form he needs to have a good pre-season and learn how to tackle again. His defence this season has been woeful. You really have to score loads of wonder tries to compensate for missing try saving tackles every game. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:53am
Navidi a doubt for the summer tour after suffering a suspected shoulder dislocation in the Challenge Cup final win over Gloucester.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 14 May 2018 at 7:56am
Thomas Young must be next in line I would have thought as Ollie Griffiths is injured. Outside bet would be Josh McLoud as he can cover all 3 back row spots pretty effectively. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:12am
That was what I thought GRP, I would like to see Young again but then I would really be happy for McLoud too.


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 14 May 2018 at 8:32am
Maybe John the fact Prydie has taken so long to get back in squad after being picked so young is an example of why Gats is no longer pushing players forward too young and too quickly. TBH it generally hasn't worked in the past so it might be best news long run for Evans and Wales. I think it probably is and let Evans have a good off season and come back even better next season, rather than risk him losing his confidence by being exposed by SA or Argentina (if he was exposed by them that is)


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 6:57am
Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris and Josh Adams have all been dropped from the tour, as the first game is outside the World Rugby international window and their English clubs won’t release them, despite the fact that the season is already over for all three.

Josh Navidi’s dislocated shoulder means he won’t tour either.

Rhodri Jones (back to tight-head), Ashton Hewitt and Aaron Wainwright have been called up instead.



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Twitterer @ebenezer68


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 7:26am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris and Josh Adams have all been dropped from the tour, as the first game is outside the World Rugby international window and their English clubs won’t release them, despite the fact that the season is already over for all three.

Josh Navidi’s dislocated shoulder means he won’t tour either.

Rhodri Jones (back to tight-head), Ashton Hewitt and Aaron Wainwright have been called up instead.


That's a bit pathetic - a dog in the manger attitude.


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:16am
This has been coming since the WRU announced the money spinning extra game in America & squeezed it in to the schedule outside the official window. Good ammunition for Gatland to beat the English based players with. This boy Wainwright has been impressive in a very poor team but is he better than Josh McLoud? Suppose no point in picking Thomas Young to replace Navidi as he would also be caught by the RFU stance. 

Personally don't have any sympathy with the WRU - whats the point in having a set of rules if they don't count?


Posted By: Dai38
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:18am
I thought McLoud has been carrying an ankle injury for the past month or so hence his non selection, for the Scarlets.

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Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:46am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris and Josh Adams have all been dropped from the tour, as the first game is outside the World Rugby international window and their English clubs won’t release them, despite the fact that the season is already over for all three.

Josh Navidi’s dislocated shoulder means he won’t tour either.

Rhodri Jones (back to tight-head), Ashton Hewitt and Aaron Wainwright have been called up instead.


That's a bit pathetic - a dog in the manger attitude.

I agree with your sentiments Aber.

However for me it's a case of 'That's another fine mess you got us into Ollie' !!

Gatland knew the rules, playing matches outside the window has been an issue for years with the extra AI. We got out of it, but his policy of playing outside the window put us into the 'group of death' at the last RWC. 

Doesn't the man learn ? Why pick these three in the first place. He has in my eyes let these players down.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:25am
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris and Josh Adams have all been dropped from the tour, as the first game is outside the World Rugby international window and their English clubs won’t release them, despite the fact that the season is already over for all three.

Josh Navidi’s dislocated shoulder means he won’t tour either.

Rhodri Jones (back to tight-head), Ashton Hewitt and Aaron Wainwright have been called up instead.



That's a bit pathetic - a dog in the manger attitude.


I agree with your sentiments Aber.

However for me it's a case of 'That's another fine mess you got us into Ollie' !!

Gatland knew the rules, playing matches outside the window has been an issue for years with the extra AI. We got out of it, but his policy of playing outside the window put us into the 'group of death' at the last RWC. 

Doesn't the man learn ? Why pick these three in the first place. He has in my eyes let these players down.


Absolutely. If you want your best players available, then organise the matches when you are supposed to.

If the English clubs released them for 1 out of the window game it would set a terrible precedent that would allow test rugby (or specifically WRU) to organise even more games outside the window and demand their players for it.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:39am
It also must be so disappointing for these players especially youngsters like Josh who should  be entitled to assume that  the organisers, the WRU, would have cleared their availability up BEFORE announcing the team. They must be feeling rather flat now and possibly angry with WRU and possibly their clubs. This is a 'lose ..lose' outcome sadly.

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 10:49am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

It also must be so disappointing for these players especially youngsters like Josh who should  be entitled to assume that  the organisers, the WRU, would have cleared their availability up BEFORE announcing the team. They must be feeling rather flat now and possibly angry with WRU and possibly their clubs. This is a 'lose ..lose' outcome sadly.


I don't see how they can feel angry at their clubs. Only 1 party has organised games when they're not supposed to. That's the WRU.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:10am
If I was Adams I would reserve my anger for the totally incompetent members of the WRU who allowed this to happen. I have to say glad as I was to see the back of Roger we have been left with not much better.

The whole structure needs to be replaced by something modern and fit for purpose which this clearly isn't. You only have to look at the way they handled the Rhys Webb saga - can you imagine the IRFU treating Connor Murray in that way? 


Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:21am
Comes with the territory of playing outside Wales so not just one party at blame.


Posted By: Dai38
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:22am
The WRU are not blameless, while the English union are arrogant, maybe their hands are tied, but they could have told the clubs release the players. Two of the three would not have played for weeks, while Francis is really a squad player.

A bit silly in my mind----who comes first---Player-Club-Contract-Unions. Not my order I am not clever enough.

I am not defending anyone, but the whole system needs changing.

Wales had an extra game, and can we argue against it, as the union are getting silly money for a one off game (allegedly), and who benefits then the professional teams--Scarlets being one!!!!

There were no other free dates as England are playing SA on the 9th,16.23 June.

Many will not agree with me but the blame lies with International Board (or whatever it's called), not with individual unions.


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Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:26am
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

The WRU are not blameless, while the English union are arrogant, maybe their hands are tied, but they could have told the clubs release the players. Two of the three would not have played for weeks, while Francis is really a squad player.

A bit silly in my mind----who comes first---Player-Club-Contract-Unions. Not my order I am not clever enough.

I am not defending anyone, but the whole system needs changing.

Wales had an extra game, and can we argue against it, as the union are getting silly money for a one off game (allegedly), and who benefits then the professional teams--Scarlets being one!!!!

There were no other free dates as England are playing SA on the 9th,16.23 June.

Many will not agree with me but the blame lies with International Board (or whatever it's called), not with individual unions.


The English Union have zero to do with it. They can't tell the English clubs to do anything.

There is no extra game. Wales are choosing to play a 3rd test before the window instead of the 3rd weekend of the window. Presumably because South Africa weren't available on the 3rd weekend of the window - and Wales wanted to play it in USA to satisfy their shirt manufacturers and maximize income.

I'm all for maximizing income but if you go outside the recommended guidelines, there will be consequences.

The only arrogant Union is WRU for naming players based outside Wales in a test match to be played outside the designated slot.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:28am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

The WRU are not blameless, while the English union are arrogant, maybe their hands are tied, but they could have told the clubs release the players. Two of the three would not have played for weeks, while Francis is really a squad player.

A bit silly in my mind----who comes first---Player-Club-Contract-Unions. Not my order I am not clever enough.

I am not defending anyone, but the whole system needs changing.

Wales had an extra game, and can we argue against it, as the union are getting silly money for a one off game (allegedly), and who benefits then the professional teams--Scarlets being one!!!!

There were no other free dates as England are playing SA on the 9th,16.23 June.

Many will not agree with me but the blame lies with International Board (or whatever it's called), not with individual unions.


The English Union have zero to do with it. They can't tell the English clubs to do anything.

There is no extra game. Wales are choosing to play a 3rd test before the window instead of the 3rd weekend of the window. Presumably because South Africa weren't available on the 3rd weekend of the window - and Wales wanted to play it in USA to satisfy their shirt manufacturers and maximize income.

I'm all for maximizing income but if you go outside the recommended guidelines, there will be consequences.

The only arrogant Union is WRU for naming players based outside Wales in a test match to be played outside the designated slot.


Yep, they have a 3 test series against England.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:34am
What is the point in having rules to govern a sport when the WRU constantly try to ignore them and when they suffer the consequences bleat on about how unfair it is. They are making the Welsh game look amateur. If you want to, understandably, please your main sponsor in return for some serious dosh then plan it properly and utilise the 3rd week of the window - i.e. play the first test against Argentina in America with a further two in Argentina or whatever. 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 11:36am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is the point in having rules to govern a sport when the WRU constantly try to ignore them and when they suffer the consequences bleat on about how unfair it is. They are making the Welsh game look amateur. If you want to, understandably, please your main sponsor in return for some serious dosh then plan it properly and utilise the 3rd week of the window - i.e. play the first test against Argentina in America with a further two in Argentina or whatever. 


It all boils down to money. They are so used to having these out of window games against SANZAR teams, that once they stop doing it - their turnover will be down approx £4m annually. And that's not a good look for a Chairman hoping to get re-elected again.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What is the point in having rules to govern a sport when the WRU constantly try to ignore them and when they suffer the consequences bleat on about how unfair it is. They are making the Welsh game look amateur. If you want to, understandably, please your main sponsor in return for some serious dosh then plan it properly and utilise the 3rd week of the window - i.e. play the first test against Argentina in America with a further two in Argentina or whatever. 


It all boils down to money. They are so used to having these out of window games against SANZAR teams, that once they stop doing it - their turnover will be down approx £4m annually. And that's not a good look for a Chairman hoping to get re-elected again.

And so his re-election speech should be about him the WRU and the Regions working together in order to improve player welfare and giving the Regions a better chance of improving !!!!


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:35pm
Apparently Sam Vesty, Worcester Warriors coach tweeted something laying the blame at the door of the PRL who the AP sides have agreements with regarding player release.




Posted By: Dai38
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:39pm
Remember South Africa are also to blame or is it a Wales v Wales game!!!!!!

If anything I agree with Sam Vesty.

KidA who runs English Rugby, I know what your answer is but should the governing body grow a pair of B**** to say let them go, they would not have played rugby for some 4-5 weeks, not interrupting anything.

So why.....don't say contract.

A SHAMBLES..... 


-------------
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Tomas Francis, Luke Charteris and Josh Adams have all been dropped from the tour, as the first game is outside the World Rugby international window and their English clubs won’t release them, despite the fact that the season is already over for all three.

Josh Navidi’s dislocated shoulder means he won’t tour either.

Rhodri Jones (back to tight-head), Ashton Hewitt and Aaron Wainwright have been called up instead.



That's a bit pathetic - a dog in the manger attitude.


I agree with your sentiments Aber.

However for me it's a case of 'That's another fine mess you got us into Ollie' !!

Gatland knew the rules, playing matches outside the window has been an issue for years with the extra AI. We got out of it, but his policy of playing outside the window put us into the 'group of death' at the last RWC. 

Doesn't the man learn ? Why pick these three in the first place. He has in my eyes let these players down.


Absolutely. If you want your best players available, then organise the matches when you are supposed to.

If the English clubs released them for 1 out of the window game it would set a terrible precedent that would allow test rugby (or specifically WRU) to organise even more games outside the window and demand their players for it.

I have absolutely no problem with the English RFU, or the French one, declining to release players in the Autumn, when they know that those players will be needed either that same weekend, or the next one, for club games. That's fair enough.

In this instance, the players won't be needed by their clubs until next (pre-) season, so their only motivation can be to give the WRU a black eye. No doubt, the WRU could run things better, but it's hardly an excuse for the English clubs to behave like this, and frustrate their own players.

As for 'money' - yes, indeed, it plays far too much of a role in modern rugby and decisions concerning the game... but since England will (as usual) be coining it from 3 tests v SA, and Wales will get comparative peanuts for 2 games v Argentina, I can't honestly blame the WRU for trying to fit in a lucrative match in the circumstances.
 



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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Remember South Africa are also to blame or is it a Wales v Wales game!!!!!!

If anything I agree with Sam Vesty.

KidA who runs English Rugby, I know what your answer is but should the governing body grow a pair of B**** to say let them go, they would not have played rugby for some 4-5 weeks, not interrupting anything.

So why.....don't say contract.

A SHAMBLES..... 


The English RFU has nothing to do with the way English pro club rugby is run. As it should be. And they especially have no say in players of another nation playing for a nation that is not England!

The clubs run club rugby in England. And if they say "ok these boys can play an out of window test in June", then what's to stop WRU saying in December - 5 days before the European cup games........"er....you let your players play outside the Summer window, so why are you not letting your players play outside the Autumn window?....see you in court"

It's 100% Correct decision by the English clubs.

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Remember South Africa are also to blame or is it a Wales v Wales game!!!!!!

If anything I agree with Sam Vesty.

KidA who runs English Rugby, I know what your answer is but should the governing body grow a pair of B**** to say let them go, they would not have played rugby for some 4-5 weeks, not interrupting anything.

So why.....don't say contract.

A SHAMBLES..... 


The English RFU has nothing to do with the way English pro club rugby is run. As it should be. And they especially have no say in players of another nation playing for a nation that is not England!

The clubs run club rugby in England. And if they say "ok these boys can play an out of window test in June", then what's to stop WRU saying in December - 5 days before the European cup games........"er....you let your players play outside the Summer window, so why are you not letting your players play outside the Autumn window?....see you in court"

It's 100% Correct decision by the English clubs.

Legally, maybe - but it's not common sense.

You REALLY can't compare a situation (Autumn) where a national union asks for players to play a test the same weekend as they may be needed for a club game, or a week before a crucial match - and the situation here (Summer), where those players won't be needed by their clubs for a couple of months, at least - can you?


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Remember South Africa are also to blame or is it a Wales v Wales game!!!!!!

If anything I agree with Sam Vesty.

KidA who runs English Rugby, I know what your answer is but should the governing body grow a pair of B**** to say let them go, they would not have played rugby for some 4-5 weeks, not interrupting anything.

So why.....don't say contract.

A SHAMBLES..... 


The English RFU has nothing to do with the way English pro club rugby is run. As it should be. And they especially have no say in players of another nation playing for a nation that is not England!

The clubs run club rugby in England. And if they say "ok these boys can play an out of window test in June", then what's to stop WRU saying in December - 5 days before the European cup games........"er....you let your players play outside the Summer window, so why are you not letting your players play outside the Autumn window?....see you in court"

It's 100% Correct decision by the English clubs.


Legally, maybe - but it's not common sense.

You REALLY can't compare a situation (Autumn) where a national union asks for players to play a test the same weekend as they may be needed for a club game, or a week before a crucial match - and the situation here (Summer), where those players won't be needed by their clubs for a couple of months, at least - can you?


They'll get fined £60k per player released outside the window!

If you owned a company that was facing fines of 60k per employee going on a month sabbatical, would say "Oh go on then, have a blast".

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Remember South Africa are also to blame or is it a Wales v Wales game!!!!!!

If anything I agree with Sam Vesty.

KidA who runs English Rugby, I know what your answer is but should the governing body grow a pair of B**** to say let them go, they would not have played rugby for some 4-5 weeks, not interrupting anything.

So why.....don't say contract.

A SHAMBLES..... 


The English RFU has nothing to do with the way English pro club rugby is run. As it should be. And they especially have no say in players of another nation playing for a nation that is not England!

The clubs run club rugby in England. And if they say "ok these boys can play an out of window test in June", then what's to stop WRU saying in December - 5 days before the European cup games........"er....you let your players play outside the Summer window, so why are you not letting your players play outside the Autumn window?....see you in court"

It's 100% Correct decision by the English clubs.


Legally, maybe - but it's not common sense.

You REALLY can't compare a situation (Autumn) where a national union asks for players to play a test the same weekend as they may be needed for a club game, or a week before a crucial match - and the situation here (Summer), where those players won't be needed by their clubs for a couple of months, at least - can you?


They'll get fined £60k per player released outside the window!

If you owned a company that was facing fines of 60k per employee going on a month sabbatical, would say "Oh go on then, have a blast".

By Premier Rugby (or whatever it's called), I presume - not the RFU.

And who are these people? They are representatives of the Premiership clubs!

So they're saying:

"Sorry - you can't have these players because there's this big bad body that'll fine us £60k if we agree!" 

What they don't say is: "Oh, BTW - we actually elected the members of this big bad body that makes the rules... we could un-elect them, or change the rules - but, tough, we're not going to do so!"LOL


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:06pm
I give up.

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

I give up.

Indeed you should, if I understood the position correctly.

If, on the other hand, the body making the rules is distinct and independent from the bodies refusing to release players, then please clarify. I may have misunderstood something, and am prepared to be educated if I got it wrong.


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:



Indeed you should, if I understood the position correctly.

If, on the other hand, the body making the rules is distinct and independent from the bodies refusing to release players, then please clarify. I may have misunderstood


They're not paying themselves the fine!

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:



Indeed you should, if I understood the position correctly.

If, on the other hand, the body making the rules is distinct and independent from the bodies refusing to release players, then please clarify. I may have misunderstood


They're not paying themselves the fine!

That hardly matters, if they are essentially the same people - is this a bit like traffic wardens - where they fine the public, and the fines go to pay the body that runs the traffic wardens? 

They can only wash their hands of the situation, Pontius Pilate style, if they are totally separate and independent from each other. From what I have read and (mis-?) understood so far, that does not appear to be the case!

i.e. if the 'fining body' is elected by the 'fined clubs', is there anything to stop those clubs from instructing the 'fining body' to change its regulations? They seem to be remarkably inflexible ATM.


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:02pm
PRL is not elected. It's the organisation that runs English pro rugby. It's chaired by an independent Chief Executive.

It operates in the best interest of the clubs, and has a lucrative deal with the RFU to receive money for player release. If the RFU sees Wales players are being released scott free out of the window, then that is all up in the air. So PRL fines clubs for releasing such players.

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:10pm
Am I right in saying that AP clubs receive money when the England squad train outside of official windows?


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Am I right in saying that AP clubs receive money when the England squad train outside of official windows?


The clubs get compensated for all player release inside and outside of windows. As the 4 Welsh teams do from the WRU.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Micro Duck
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:23pm
Lewis Rawlins still can't make it into the squad.

Thought he would've been ahead of Aaron Wainwright.


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*NEW* KIDS HALFPENNY T SHIRTS
ON SALE NOW

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Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Am I right in saying that AP clubs receive money when the England squad train outside of official windows?


The clubs get compensated for all player release inside and outside of windows. As the 4 Welsh teams do from the WRU.


I'm sure I read somewhere, a while ago, that when there are one off sessions they get extra money...


Posted By: Dai38
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:53pm
Kid A you say and I quote " best interest of the clubs"

What about the best interest of the game, which in reality is why they are there.

I am confused and this will be the last posting on this why are you defending all that is good in the English game and criticising everything Welsh.

Also why have you not said anything about South Africa.

Does anyone agree that it is a shambles brought on by the following Unions:-

English
Welsh
South African

Marshalled so well by the IRB who would have sanctioned the game prior to it being agreed.

How anyone can solely blame Wales is beyond me.


-------------
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 17 May 2018 at 4:37pm
Not sure Kid A is defending anyone, just explaining how PRL have created a commercial property and are protecting it within the express 'rules' of World Rugby.

PRL is the Clubs in the English Premiership and, as their employers, the players contracted to play for them. They are not obliged to release players outside of contracted periods and, if any other body (in this case the WRU) tries to take a liberty in this commercially-competitive world, they are within their rights to refuse access to the players under contract to them.

For whatever reason, WRU have arranged a game outside the recognised international window, so can't be entirely surprised when some stakeholders don't play ball. The wider context is that Gats & Co were testing the resolve of PRL Clubs, and have taken the opportunity to remind players that, to play for Wales, they'd be better off playing in Wales. Bluntly.




-------------
Twitterer @ebenezer68


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:17am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

PRL is not elected. It's the organisation that runs English pro rugby. It's chaired by an independent Chief Executive.

It operates in the best interest of the clubs, and has a lucrative deal with the RFU to receive money for player release. If the RFU sees Wales players are being released scott free out of the window, then that is all up in the air. So PRL fines clubs for releasing such players.

Your second point is quite a good one - in effect, it's all about money. I wonder if they'd release the players if the WRU were willing to put some cash in the pot?

I'm still not impressed by their total inflexibility, though. I wonder if Moriarty will be affected, even though he's joining a Welsh region next season? I haven't seen anything that clarifies his position for this tour. If he is released, shouldn't his club be fined £60k too, under the regulations? And if not, doesn't that prove that some flexibility is possible, but the PRL are simply choosing not to be flexible? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, unless the news is already out there, somewhere.

You're right about the PRL members not being elected - it's even cosier than that. This is what they say themselves:

"Premiership Rugby is the organising body for the top  professional rugby clubs in England who compete in the Aviva Premiership.

Premiership Rugby is a private company, wholly owned by and responsible to its member clubs. In the 2017-18 RFU Championship clubs Bristol Rugby and Leeds Carnegie have shares in Premiership Rugby and a place on the Board.

Each of the member clubs is independent of Premiership Rugby, working within the rules of the game as laid out by World Rugby, the RFU and English law and delivering in their local communities.

Representatives from the clubs come together every six weeks for a Board meeting, at which decisions are taken collectively as to the best way to develop the professional game for the benefit of all clubs, stakeholders and fans. The Board is the highest forum for decision-making in the game and Premiership Rugby is ultimately responsible to the Board for delivering against decisions made."

So, as I said earlier, the relationship between the clubs and PRL is so close that if the clubs wanted to do so they could easily mandate their representatives on the Board to change the regulations. They choose not to do so., and to retain what seems to me to be an extremely inflexible position. It should not be beyond the wit of intelligent people to come up with a set of regulations which protects the clubs' interests (e.g WRT the Autumn internationals) whilst allowing some wiggle room at times when the clubs are not playing any matches, and are not going to do so for a considerable period.




-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 7:59am
I think the whole situation has been exacerbated by the continuing battle between the WRU and the Premier League clubs over talented academy players who have dual qualifications. It has led the PRL to take a very hard stance with the WRU and they are playing by the rules instead of showing some common sense flexibility.

The situation could have been much worse if the decision hadn't been made to rest Liam & Taulupe. 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 8:59am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Your second point is quite a good one - in effect, it's all about money. I wonder if they'd release the players if the WRU were willing to put some cash in the pot?

I'm still not impressed by their total inflexibility, though. I wonder if Moriarty will be affected, even though he's joining a Welsh region next season? I haven't seen anything that clarifies his position for this tour. If he is released, shouldn't his club be fined £60k too, under the regulations? And if not, doesn't that prove that some flexibility is possible, but the PRL are simply choosing not to be flexible? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, unless the news is already out there, somewhere.


Moriarty's contract effectively ends May / June. His club can effectvively offer mutual termination few weeks early to ensure he's no longer a PRL issue.

Quote You're right about the PRL members not being elected - it's even cosier than that. This is what they say themselves:

"Premiership Rugby is the organising body for the top professional rugby clubs in England who compete in the Aviva Premiership.
Premiership Rugby is a private company, wholly owned by and responsible to its member clubs. In the 2017-18 RFU Championship clubs Bristol Rugby and Leeds Carnegie have shares in Premiership Rugby and a place on the Board.

Each of the member clubs is independent of Premiership Rugby, working within the rules of the game as laid out by World Rugby, the RFU and English law and delivering in their local communities.

Representatives from the clubs come together every six weeks for a Board meeting, at which decisions are taken collectively as to the best way to develop the professional game for the benefit of all clubs, stakeholders and fans. The Board is the highest forum for decision-making in the game and Premiership Rugby is ultimately responsible to the Board for delivering against decisions made."

So, as I said earlier, the relationship between the clubs and PRL is so close that if the clubs wanted to do so they could easily mandate their representatives on the Board to change the regulations. They choose not to do so., and to retain what seems to me to be an extremely inflexible position. It should not be beyond the wit of intelligent people to come up with a set of regulations which protects the clubs' interests (e.g WRT the Autumn internationals) whilst allowing some wiggle room at times when the clubs are not playing any matches, and are not going to do so for a considerable period.


Yes. Exactly the same as in Wales then.

I wonder........... if the Scarlets had 2 English international players on our books that were wanted by Eddie Jones for a game against New Zealand next week - would you be saying they should be released to the RFU "for the good of the game" - and the Scarlets should pay a £120k fine to Mark Davies at PRW?

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Your second point is quite a good one - in effect, it's all about money. I wonder if they'd release the players if the WRU were willing to put some cash in the pot?

I'm still not impressed by their total inflexibility, though. I wonder if Moriarty will be affected, even though he's joining a Welsh region next season? I haven't seen anything that clarifies his position for this tour. If he is released, shouldn't his club be fined £60k too, under the regulations? And if not, doesn't that prove that some flexibility is possible, but the PRL are simply choosing not to be flexible? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, unless the news is already out there, somewhere.


Moriarty's contract effectively ends May / June. His club can effectvively offer mutual termination few weeks early to ensure he's no longer a PRL issue.

Quote You're right about the PRL members not being elected - it's even cosier than that. This is what they say themselves:

"Premiership Rugby is the organising body for the top professional rugby clubs in England who compete in the Aviva Premiership.
Premiership Rugby is a private company, wholly owned by and responsible to its member clubs. In the 2017-18 RFU Championship clubs Bristol Rugby and Leeds Carnegie have shares in Premiership Rugby and a place on the Board.

Each of the member clubs is independent of Premiership Rugby, working within the rules of the game as laid out by World Rugby, the RFU and English law and delivering in their local communities.

Representatives from the clubs come together every six weeks for a Board meeting, at which decisions are taken collectively as to the best way to develop the professional game for the benefit of all clubs, stakeholders and fans. The Board is the highest forum for decision-making in the game and Premiership Rugby is ultimately responsible to the Board for delivering against decisions made."

So, as I said earlier, the relationship between the clubs and PRL is so close that if the clubs wanted to do so they could easily mandate their representatives on the Board to change the regulations. They choose not to do so., and to retain what seems to me to be an extremely inflexible position. It should not be beyond the wit of intelligent people to come up with a set of regulations which protects the clubs' interests (e.g WRT the Autumn internationals) whilst allowing some wiggle room at times when the clubs are not playing any matches, and are not going to do so for a considerable period.


Yes. Exactly the same as in Wales then.

I wonder........... if the Scarlets had 2 English international players on our books that were wanted by Eddie Jones for a game against New Zealand next week - would you be saying they should be released to the RFU "for the good of the game" - and the Scarlets should pay a £120k fine to Mark Davies at PRW?

You don't seem to have read my posts carefully - I have repeated several times that IF PLAYERS ARE NEEDED BY THEIR CLUBS, there is no issue. 

The situation is (to my mind) completely different if the players season is at an end, and if they won't be needed for months. You seem to be inventing situations to suit your argument, rather than dealing with the situation that exists in reality.


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 1:48pm
I've definitely given up this time.

-------------

https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: minded
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Your second point is quite a good one - in effect, it's all about money. I wonder if they'd release the players if the WRU were willing to put some cash in the pot?

I'm still not impressed by their total inflexibility, though. I wonder if Moriarty will be affected, even though he's joining a Welsh region next season? I haven't seen anything that clarifies his position for this tour. If he is released, shouldn't his club be fined £60k too, under the regulations? And if not, doesn't that prove that some flexibility is possible, but the PRL are simply choosing not to be flexible? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, unless the news is already out there, somewhere.


Moriarty's contract effectively ends May / June. His club can effectvively offer mutual termination few weeks early to ensure he's no longer a PRL issue.

Quote You're right about the PRL members not being elected - it's even cosier than that. This is what they say themselves:

"Premiership Rugby is the organising body for the top professional rugby clubs in England who compete in the Aviva Premiership.
Premiership Rugby is a private company, wholly owned by and responsible to its member clubs. In the 2017-18 RFU Championship clubs Bristol Rugby and Leeds Carnegie have shares in Premiership Rugby and a place on the Board.

Each of the member clubs is independent of Premiership Rugby, working within the rules of the game as laid out by World Rugby, the RFU and English law and delivering in their local communities.

Representatives from the clubs come together every six weeks for a Board meeting, at which decisions are taken collectively as to the best way to develop the professional game for the benefit of all clubs, stakeholders and fans. The Board is the highest forum for decision-making in the game and Premiership Rugby is ultimately responsible to the Board for delivering against decisions made."

So, as I said earlier, the relationship between the clubs and PRL is so close that if the clubs wanted to do so they could easily mandate their representatives on the Board to change the regulations. They choose not to do so., and to retain what seems to me to be an extremely inflexible position. It should not be beyond the wit of intelligent people to come up with a set of regulations which protects the clubs' interests (e.g WRT the Autumn internationals) whilst allowing some wiggle room at times when the clubs are not playing any matches, and are not going to do so for a considerable period.


Yes. Exactly the same as in Wales then.

I wonder........... if the Scarlets had 2 English international players on our books that were wanted by Eddie Jones for a game against New Zealand next week - would you be saying they should be released to the RFU "for the good of the game" - and the Scarlets should pay a £120k fine to Mark Davies at PRW?

You don't seem to have read my posts carefully - I have repeated several times that IF PLAYERS ARE NEEDED BY THEIR CLUBS, there is no issue. 

The situation is (to my mind) completely different if the players season is at an end, and if they won't be needed for months. You seem to be inventing situations to suit your argument, rather than dealing with the situation that exists in reality.
And what happens if the player then gets injured in this extra game and is out until Christmas? How does that benefit the club that are paying his wages?


-------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPLe3ApXjW4&list=PL576FE48C1F044909&index=1" rel="nofollow - Scarlets Tries of the Season 2009 - 2018


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 18 May 2018 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by minded minded wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Your second point is quite a good one - in effect, it's all about money. I wonder if they'd release the players if the WRU were willing to put some cash in the pot?

I'm still not impressed by their total inflexibility, though. I wonder if Moriarty will be affected, even though he's joining a Welsh region next season? I haven't seen anything that clarifies his position for this tour. If he is released, shouldn't his club be fined £60k too, under the regulations? And if not, doesn't that prove that some flexibility is possible, but the PRL are simply choosing not to be flexible? I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, unless the news is already out there, somewhere.


Moriarty's contract effectively ends May / June. His club can effectvively offer mutual termination few weeks early to ensure he's no longer a PRL issue.

Quote You're right about the PRL members not being elected - it's even cosier than that. This is what they say themselves:

"Premiership Rugby is the organising body for the top professional rugby clubs in England who compete in the Aviva Premiership.
Premiership Rugby is a private company, wholly owned by and responsible to its member clubs. In the 2017-18 RFU Championship clubs Bristol Rugby and Leeds Carnegie have shares in Premiership Rugby and a place on the Board.

Each of the member clubs is independent of Premiership Rugby, working within the rules of the game as laid out by World Rugby, the RFU and English law and delivering in their local communities.

Representatives from the clubs come together every six weeks for a Board meeting, at which decisions are taken collectively as to the best way to develop the professional game for the benefit of all clubs, stakeholders and fans. The Board is the highest forum for decision-making in the game and Premiership Rugby is ultimately responsible to the Board for delivering against decisions made."

So, as I said earlier, the relationship between the clubs and PRL is so close that if the clubs wanted to do so they could easily mandate their representatives on the Board to change the regulations. They choose not to do so., and to retain what seems to me to be an extremely inflexible position. It should not be beyond the wit of intelligent people to come up with a set of regulations which protects the clubs' interests (e.g WRT the Autumn internationals) whilst allowing some wiggle room at times when the clubs are not playing any matches, and are not going to do so for a considerable period.


Yes. Exactly the same as in Wales then.

I wonder........... if the Scarlets had 2 English international players on our books that were wanted by Eddie Jones for a game against New Zealand next week - would you be saying they should be released to the RFU "for the good of the game" - and the Scarlets should pay a £120k fine to Mark Davies at PRW?

You don't seem to have read my posts carefully - I have repeated several times that IF PLAYERS ARE NEEDED BY THEIR CLUBS, there is no issue. 

The situation is (to my mind) completely different if the players season is at an end, and if they won't be needed for months. You seem to be inventing situations to suit your argument, rather than dealing with the situation that exists in reality.
And what happens if the player then gets injured in this extra game and is out until Christmas? How does that benefit the club that are paying his wages?

Insurance could be a possibility - to be paid for by the WRU (or whoever) - but players have been known to injure themselves doing daft things like breaking a leg ski-ing or whatever. Life is full of risks... Again, though, I see the 'argument against' comes down to money (essentially) rather than any moral imperative...

Anyway, I can see that some posters are admirers of Prem Rugby, and I've had my say. I'll leave it there, so we can all enjoy the great Scarlets win tonight!

BeerHandshake


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)



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