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Ah Well.

Printed From: Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets
Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: GENERAL RUGBY
Forum Description: Other rugby chat
URL: https://scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44572
Printed Date: 28 March 2024 at 3:10pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Ah Well.
Posted By: knutsfordlion
Subject: Ah Well.
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 8:22pm
Scott made a decision to move on and we all respect that.
 
After watching the Ospreys today, they are in serious trouble.
 
The addition of Scott and George will do nothing to improve them, and perhaps Scott could come home ASAP when he realises his mistake.
 
George can go and whistle up his kilt, as he is not good enough to start for us as it is.
 
He probably knew that cos he signed for the Tospreys.
 
Pro 14 champs next week/ClapClapClap


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Page the oracle



Replies:
Posted By: rygbi11
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 8:41pm
I think the Ospreys have a lot of good players personally and with the squad they have maybe they can win the Challenge Cup next season.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 9:09pm
They just needed a different coach.


Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 9:22pm
That was a very poor display against a bad Ulster team.  That franchise is falling apart. I wonder where they got the money from to sign Scott who is not on a NDC.


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

That was a very poor display against a bad Ulster team.  That franchise is falling apart. I wonder where they got the money from to sign Scott who is not on a NDC.

Webb, Biggar, Beck, Fonotia and Hassler leaving has freed up a chunk of cash for them. They’ve had Eli Walker and Ben John retire mid season too.


Posted By: CTMassive
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 10:00pm
assuming they lose 3000 on the gates for a Challenge Cup game compared to a Champions Cup game, that amounts to a loss of around £200,000 on their revenue, subtract any lost revenue from TV revenue and sponsors as well.

It was an expensive loss for them today. Scott, Aled and George will be gutted. Can't imagine it will help their Welsh cause (bar George) if they're not doing well in the league. 

Given the withdrawl of Best, Henderson, Piutau (sp) and others from the Ulster squad as well, that was a bad loss. Very worrying for them given that Clarke is the result of their "world-wide search for a top class coach". The Ospreys had a strong team out too!?

I'm chuffed for Dwayne though, not easy for him facing questions about the Jonno Gibbes fiasco.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by Dafen Boy Dafen Boy wrote:

That was a very poor display against a bad Ulster team.  That franchise is falling apart. I wonder where they got the money from to sign Scott who is not on a NDC.

Webb, Biggar, Beck, Fonotia and Hassler leaving has freed up a chunk of cash for them. They’ve had Eli Walker and Ben John retire mid season too.



Beck, Arhip too.

Fonotia would have been enough though, like Haliholo, Lee~Lo etc, these guys came to Wales with high profiles in Super XV, high price tags at the time.

Fonotia is the one recruit that I can’t figure out, not the sort of player profile Pivac generally looks for, over 30 and will be in the RWC too. Good player of course.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 12:01am
All I can say in Tom Jones tribute style is “Why why why Scott Williams...my my my Scott Williams “ 🤔totally and utterly and honestly bemused.🤔


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 1:36am
yeah scott w is the one that hurts, other players come and go but he is 24 carrot scarlet gold

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 6:21am
why are we so concernrd about the ospreys?


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 6:32am
All the Welsh Regions need to be strong in order to to make the National team strong in order to properly fund the game in Wales which helps to keep us strong.

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Keep the faith


Posted By: dantheman
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 7:30am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

All the Welsh Regions need to be strong in order to to make the National team strong in order to properly fund the game in Wales which helps to keep us strong.


Really.... If the other regions are worse than us then it increases the chances of us reaching finals which is a far bigger boost to our profile and revenue than the positive (and unproven) influence that a better Ospreys would have on the National team and thus their revenues.


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 7:36am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

All the Welsh Regions need to be strong in order to to make the National team strong in order to properly fund the game in Wales which helps to keep us strong.


Stuff the national team.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: Scrum_Bar_Turk
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 7:54am
Argree the other regions don't really care about us and if we win anything if anything they loved us coming up short in euro semi, we need to manage our own destiny and future basically the more succussful we are the more money we can invest in the players and attract more season ticket holders and people to the games don't get me wrong i will always support Wales and its great when we win grands slams but scarlets always come first 100% !


Posted By: InTheBath
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 8:22am
Shame for Scott and Aled, but they must have known this was a possibility after the run they went on.

They've got some good players but a really unbalanced squad which will take a few years to fix. It took Pivac and the coaches a while to get us to where we need to be (Pivac out!) and Clarke/Sharratt have a bigger job on their hands.

If they get things right, they'll be back to near their normal level in a couple of seasons. I just hope we continue beating them!


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

All the Welsh Regions need to be strong in order to to make the National team strong in order to properly fund the game in Wales which helps to keep us strong.


Stuff the national team.

So how do you see the financial model in the future? Back to amateur rugby and play Tumble, Kidwelly etc?

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Keep the faith


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:


why are we so concernrd about the ospreys?
All part of the background rationale for Speedy to have a road trip to an Os away trip if drawn with La Rochelle. Ideal if we draw Toulouse/Castres and are away the same weekend

Clermont might be another on that list, especially if en route to see us at Lyon or Montpellier, or even back up to Paris.

However, EPC and their predecessors like to keep our home matches with their aways, or at least they have done til now.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Bys Meri Ann
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:15pm
There's a decent chance the Ospreys will be in the same Challenge Cup pool as one of the two Siberian teams. An away fixture in Siberia in Dec/Jan will be a lot of fun... No need to pay extra for cryotherapy anyway!






Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Bys Meri Ann Bys Meri Ann wrote:

There's a decent chance the Ospreys will be in the same Challenge Cup pool as one of the two Siberian teams. An away fixture in Siberia in Dec/Jan will be a lot of fun... No need to pay extra for cryotherapy anyway!




Enisei and Heidelberg are the two non top league sides in 18/19.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by CTMassive CTMassive wrote:

assuming they lose 3000 on the gates for a Challenge Cup game compared to a Champions Cup game, that amounts to a loss of around £200,000 on their revenue, subtract any lost revenue from TV revenue and sponsors as well.

It was an expensive loss for them today. Scott, Aled and George will be gutted. Can't imagine it will help their Welsh cause (bar George) if they're not doing well in the league. 

Given the withdrawl of Best, Henderson, Piutau (sp) and others from the Ulster squad as well, that was a bad loss. Very worrying for them given that Clarke is the result of their "world-wide search for a top class coach". The Ospreys had a strong team out too!?

I'm chuffed for Dwayne though, not easy for him facing questions about the Jonno Gibbes fiasco.

Also there's a difference in the money you get from being in the top tier cup. So a major loss for them, perhaps they'll return Scott now?


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 5:44am
There is no difference between the funding you get from either comp actually.

It’s been pretty evident since the end of month 1 that the Os and Drags were going to under achieve, the only surprise was that the Os were a play off game away from getting Tier 1.

These are not really the factors governing the signings of those players:those players signing for the Os..




Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 7:21am
Still surprised to witness just how awful the ospreys have been this season. I know theyve lost the galacticos and some are probably past their best now, but with that squad of players I'd have expected them to achieve more... awj , lydiate, baker, biggar, webb, beck, cory allen (a big miss through injury) dan evs, hassler, baldwin, hook, keelan giles (another big miss with injury), howells, brad davies, dirkson, sam davies, paul james injured a lot, king, leonard, tipuric, thornton, watkin...thats a fair heap of talent and experience. Clearly the rebuilding work will need to be substantial to transition to the next top ospreys team. May take a few years

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: sgsmorgan
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 7:29am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

There is no difference between the funding you get from either comp actually.

It’s been pretty evident since the end of month 1 that the Os and Drags were going to under achieve, the only surprise was that the Os were a play off game away from getting Tier 1.

These are not really the factors governing the signings of those players:those players signing for the Os..




So basically....you get the same amount of funding whether you turn up or not? I presume the better you do in the Competitions the more rewards in funding you get? Otherwise is the only incentive the fact that you win it or come close?

Surely there has to be more money for being in the RCC than the challenge Cup or else what is the point...is it just down to pride then?

Genuinely asking.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 8:27am
The Ospreys have plenty of talent but seem to have lost their way in terms of the way they set up to play. Attacking wise they have gone backwards. Sharratt has done well with the Blues so he's a very important acquisition. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 10:12am
Originally posted by sgsmorgan sgsmorgan wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

There is no difference between the funding you get from either comp actually.

It’s been pretty evident since the end of month 1 that the Os and Drags were going to under achieve, the only surprise was that the Os were a play off game away from getting Tier 1.

These are not really the factors governing the signings of those players:those players signing for the Os..




So basically....you get the same amount of funding whether you turn up or not? I presume the better you do in the Competitions the more rewards in funding you get? Otherwise is the only incentive the fact that you win it or come close?

Surely there has to be more money for being in the RCC than the challenge Cup or else what is the point...is it just down to pride then?

Genuinely asking.

I don't know the answer, as far as direct funding from the organisers is concerned... but definitely teams get bigger crowds in the main competition (which in turn knocks on to more sales of food, drink, shirts etc.) - so there is a definite financial benefit.

Would being in the RCC also lead to more TV revenue? That's possible/likely, too, unless it all goes into the pot shared out by the organisers.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 10:19am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by sgsmorgan sgsmorgan wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

There is no difference between the funding you get from either comp actually.

It’s been pretty evident since the end of month 1 that the Os and Drags were going to under achieve, the only surprise was that the Os were a play off game away from getting Tier 1.

These are not really the factors governing the signings of those players:those players signing for the Os..




So basically....you get the same amount of funding whether you turn up or not? I presume the better you do in the Competitions the more rewards in funding you get? Otherwise is the only incentive the fact that you win it or come close?

Surely there has to be more money for being in the RCC than the challenge Cup or else what is the point...is it just down to pride then?

Genuinely asking.

I don't know the answer, as far as direct funding from the organisers is concerned... but definitely teams get bigger crowds in the main competition (which in turn knocks on to more sales of food, drink, shirts etc.) - so there is a definite financial benefit.

Would being in the RCC also lead to more TV revenue? That's possible/likely, too, unless it all goes into the pot shared out by the organisers.


Taken from EPC Rugby

The distribution of EPCR's revenues is made on the basis of an equal three-way division to LNR clubs, Premiership Rugby clubs and PRO12 Rugby clubs.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 12:31pm
welsh regions have always split the money from European rugby equally
 
of course the further you get and the bigger gate receipts you get the more you earn
 
so a home quarter for us goes to us but the tv funding etc is split equally
 
Looking at that squad the ashtrays could win that cup next year but the way they are playing at the minute they have no chance.
 
Sam davies appears to have lost all form and hook looks like a semi pro level player


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

welsh regions have always split the money from European rugby equally
 
of course the further you get and the bigger gate receipts you get the more you earn
 
so a home quarter for us goes to us but the tv funding etc is split equally
 
Looking at that squad the ashtrays could win that cup next year but the way they are playing at the minute they have no chance.
 
Sam davies appears to have lost all form and hook looks like a semi pro level player

Thanks for the clarification.

Indeed, Sam Davies seems to have lost all form and confidence recently - I wonder if that'll change with Biggar gone? He'll have to step up.

As for Hook, I was shocked to see how slow he is these days - when he got the ball on the wing, I thought he'd score - but it looked as if he was running in sand.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by sgsmorgan sgsmorgan wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

There is no difference between the funding you get from either comp actually.

It’s been pretty evident since the end of month 1 that the Os and Drags were going to under achieve, the only surprise was that the Os were a play off game away from getting Tier 1.

These are not really the factors governing the signings of those players:those players signing for the Os..




So basically....you get the same amount of funding whether you turn up or not? I presume the better you do in the Competitions the more rewards in funding you get? Otherwise is the only incentive the fact that you win it or come close?

Surely there has to be more money for being in the RCC than the challenge Cup or else what is the point...is it just down to pride then?

Genuinely asking.



I think it's been answered in subsequent posts...hope that's ok.

In terms of direct income from the Cup comps I doubt there's much in it from the other 'direct' things like gate receipts for cup games...

We would have had a decent crowd had we reached the QF of the Tier 2 comp at home for example...

The real money should come from the re-positioning of the club in the Top 10 teams in Europe now...consecutive league play off finals ( and winners both time ..cough), being a Semi finalist in Europe this season should all attract higher sponsorship (s), TV and media exposure, ST sales, and spill overs in to Merchandise etc.





Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Still surprised to witness just how awful the ospreys have been this season. I know theyve lost the galacticos and some are probably past their best now, but with that squad of players I'd have expected them to achieve more... awj , lydiate, baker, biggar, webb, beck, cory allen (a big miss through injury) dan evs, hassler, baldwin, hook, keelan giles (another big miss with injury), howells, brad davies, dirkson, sam davies, paul james injured a lot, king, leonard, tipuric, thornton, watkin...thats a fair heap of talent and experience. Clearly the rebuilding work will need to be substantial to transition to the next top ospreys team. May take a few years


We’ve had teams full of internationals in the past and underperformed


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 6:46pm
So, if the revenue split is equal from the organisers, it won’t matter that there are 7 PRO14 sides in the RCC.

Is that right?

Also, is it correct to say that the SA sides see nothing of the European money? At least, not yet until they’re allowed to join the competition. I seem to recall there was a moratorium on them joining but can’t remember how long that was. Any clarification appreciated.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 6:56pm
It's definitely easier to recruit players I'd imagine. Wouldn't affect English teams who can just lump another £50k on to an offer without blinking but for us to bring in Blommetjies, Blade, Cassiem etc it's key.



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