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NZ V France

Printed From: Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets
Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: GENERAL RUGBY
Forum Description: Other rugby chat
URL: http://www.scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44621
Printed Date: 21 October 2018 at 8:48pm
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Topic: NZ V France
Posted By: KID A
Subject: NZ V France
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 11:30am
Yellow:





Penalty:



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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time



Replies:
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 11:53am
To be fair, the Kiwi commentators called it exactly right.

The French guy was innocent and the Kiwi bang to rights guilty and should’ve been off.

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Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 12:45pm
The AB should have been red-carded and the actual tackler committed the same seat belt tackle as the Frenchman in the other incident.

Some of the decisions in the Ireland/Oz game are rather confusing as well. Cronin has just neck rolled an Australian forward so he landed on his head. Just a penalty because the Irishman didn't "finish him off".I thought if you tipped a player onto his head, then you were red-carded.  


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

The AB should have been red-carded and the actual tackler committed the same seat belt tackle as the Frenchman in the other incident.

Some of the decisions in the Ireland/Oz game are rather confusing as well. Cronin has just neck rolled an Australian forward so he landed on his head. Just a penalty because the Irishman didn't "finish him off".I thought if you tipped a player onto his head, then you were red-carded.  


I can't believe that was only a penalty. They speared him into the ground neck first!

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 1:35pm
The only consistency this week has been that players in (baby and all) black shirts get away with anything.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

The only consistency this week has been that players in (baby and all) black shirts get away with anything.

Fair comment.

I can still remember a Wales v ABs game a few years ago when Wales started like a house on fire, looked all over as if they were going to score a try, when McCaw entered a ruck from the Welsh side (yes, indeed - no nonsense about coming in from the side - he was running back towards his own line!) and killed the ball. Nothing was given.

If any rugby player ever pinched Harry Potter's 'cloak of invisibility', it must have been McCaw.


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

To be fair, the Kiwi commentators called it exactly right.

The French guy was innocent and the Kiwi bang to rights guilty and should’ve been off.

It's very poor - the AB is clearly shouting at the ref when he's tackled, even though it's a legal tackle ATM (the laws are changing soon, I think?) - the AB tackle, on the other hand, is very like Sonny Bill's, or that cheap shot by their U20s guy - a clear red card. How did the ref and TMO miss that???????


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 5:28pm
The France player has sufferred a double fracture of the skull.

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

The France player has sufferred a double fracture of the skull.


There should be more than your standard 3 match ban for that. It was a clear dirty cheap shot. Disgusting.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 09 June 2018 at 9:59pm
If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.

Eh? Your point being?


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.


Eh? Your point being?


People criticise them.


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.
This agenda of yours is getting tiresome.

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.


Eh? Your point being?


People criticise them.


Do you think what they get away with is fair? In the interest of the game? Or should we just roll over because they’re the “All Blacks”. They follow the same rules as everyone else, it’s a shame mist of the referees don’t have the balks to punish them to the letter of the law.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 10 June 2018 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

If an all black had a creased jersey people would make a fuss.


Eh? Your point being?


People criticise them.


Do you think what they get away with is fair? In the interest of the game? Or should we just roll over because they’re the “All Blacks”. They follow the same rules as everyone else, it’s a shame mist of the referees don’t have the balks to punish them to the letter of the law.


If the Scarlets became the best team in Europe by getting away with stuff like the All blacks do you think there’d be complaints of us not playing fair by supporters?


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 7:25am
The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 8:16am
They went to the TMO and called it accidental, penalty only!

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Keep the faith


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:25am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:37am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

You are totally correct SA14 in identifying the intelligence of the AB's in playing refs better than any other team. However the question raised by Aber-fan has nothing to do with playing the ref. Clearly a French player was seriously hurt by what most of us would call a cheap shot. That has nothing to do with intelligence or playing the ref. This type of tackle cannot be condoned whoever commits it and frankly your suggestion that it would have been acceptable to us if committed by a Scarlet player is not worthy of a response. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

They went to the TMO and called it accidental, penalty only!

I am absolutely astonished. Unless the clip Kid A is too short, and doesn't show how it could have been interpreted as accidental, then to me (on what Kid A shows) it looks every bit as bad as Sonny Bill's hit, which rightly earned him a red card. 

In what universe is that only a penalty?


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 1:56pm
They've been getting away with it for years. Filise got a red card and 3 week ban for this:

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/936692944714846214" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/936692944714846214


But they get a Penalty:





It's not just this game v France. They get away with murder.

Remember Tomas Francis got (probably deservedly) a ban for this?




Owe Franks got nothing for this:



Andrew Hoare missed 2 games for his assault on Bradely Davies:



I think people are just getting really fed up of it.



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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.
 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 3:37pm
It doesn't get any better the more you watch it, does it? As nailed on a 'shoulder to the head' as you could ever see, should have easily been confirmed in the TV replay (assuming the ref didn't see it at the time), yet just a penalty?!! Shocked

The seat-belt tackle on Grosso is far worse than committed by Gabrillagues (which Ryan Crotty made a fwpbal-like meal of to get a momentum-shifting yellow card), as it's actually around the neck rather than on the shoulder, and the sickening shoulder impact by Tu'ungafasi is a clear straight red these days, no debate, no matter if he dipped while being dragged down by the neck by Cane.

People complain about consistency of reffing, and that needs to be backed up with action from citing commissioners. The only consistency we seem to have is that New Zealand consistently get more favourable decisions at key moments in big games.




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Twitterer @ebenezer68


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


I don’t care. I’m pointing out they get away with it.


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 11 June 2018 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


I don’t care. I’m pointing out they get away with it.

We all are


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


I don’t care. I’m pointing out they get away with it.

I think I misunderstood your original post - I assumed that you were referring to refs, whereas in this instance you were saying that the ref was crap and the ABs were very good at getting away with murder.

Did I get it right this time?


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 4:40pm
World Rugby today revealed that Tu’ungafasi had received a citing commissioner warning from independent citing commissioner Freek Burger, of South Africa.

Having considered all available camera angles, Freek decided the prop had executed a dangerous tackle “just short of” red card level.

He determined there were mitigating factors which prevented the conduct from reaching red card level. These included Grosso’s body position lowering as he went into contact with Cane, immediately before Tu’ungafasi joined “a dynamic tackle situation”.

As for Cane’s initial tackle, Freek agreed with referee Pearce’s decision to issue a penalty against him, so no further action was warranted.



Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


I don’t care. I’m pointing out they get away with it.


I think I misunderstood your original post - I assumed that you were referring to refs, whereas in this instance you were saying that the ref was crap and the ABs were very good at getting away with murder.

Did I get it right this time?


They play the game intelligently. It’s admirable.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 12 June 2018 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

The point is surely that the tackle was dangerous and illegal, as is shown clearly in the clip Kid A has posted at the top of this thread. So - two questions:

1. Do you agree that the shoulder to the head is dangerous and illegal, or is it a fair tackle in your opinion?

2. If you do agree with the rest of us about the tackle, do you think that the player should have been carded ( a clear red, IMO, but any card for you)?

I didn't see the game, so I don't know if the ref went to the TMO or not - I suppose it's possible he missed it if he didn't, as surely a half-competent TMO would have advised the ref correctly.


I’m talking about the All blacks in general. They play the ref. Something any good team should do. That’s why they are the best team in the world.

 
So, the questions, any thoughts on them?


I don’t care. I’m pointing out they get away with it.


I think I misunderstood your original post - I assumed that you were referring to refs, whereas in this instance you were saying that the ref was crap and the ABs were very good at getting away with murder.

Did I get it right this time?


They play the game intelligently. It’s admirable.

We'd all agree with the first sentence. They are the top team - no question.

But is everything they do 'admirable', including that tackle, or Sonny Bill's, or the one done by the U20 player the other day?

Do you bow down before all their acts, irrespective of what they are?

You haven't yet given a straight answer to any of my questions - please have the honesty to do so this time - or are you in training to be a politician?


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:45am
Yes and yes. So many quotes in quotes I got lost lol


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 13 June 2018 at 1:23pm
OK - at least we know where you stand on dirty play now!

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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:07pm
WoL doing their best to fan the flames of the fire by rolling it on, giving following examples of incidents by All Black players: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/furious-backlash-against-new-zealand-14780321" rel="nofollow - http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/furious-backlash-against-new-zealand-14780321

Owen Franks’ hand in the face of Kane Douglas

Andrew Hore’s hit on Bradley Davies

The off the ball challenge on Brian O’Driscoll (Lions test series)

The brutal match between Ireland and New Zealand

The Leigh Halfpenny incident (illegal shoulder challenge from Tawera Kerr-Barlow (who was playing for the Maori ABs))

Accused of targeting Lions No.9 Conor Murray

The Wales Under-20s furore (the charge on Ioan Nicholas)



Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 14 June 2018 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

They've been getting away with it for years. Filise got a red card and 3 week ban for this:

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/936692944714846214" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/936692944714846214


But they get a Penalty:





It's not just this game v France. They get away with murder.

Remember Tomas Francis got (probably deservedly) a ban for this?




Owe Franks got nothing for this:



Andrew Hoare missed 2 games for his assault on Bradely Davies:



I think people are just getting really fed up of it.


Absolutely, fed up is an understatement! It's pissing everyone off to be honest!


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Guinness Pro 12 Champions 2017...get in!


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 9:10am
To add insult to injury, the French have had an early red card today for taking out a player in the air.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 10:31am
french fought hard for over an hour with 14 to be fair.

Another card (or the colour of it) that will provoke debate that will overshadow the game.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 10:55am
Are they the best because they're not punished or not punished because they're the best? Probably both. As Warburton says in that article, they play very hard and are ferocious but I've always wondered if part of their game is to put opposition players out of the game with said hard play. That they never seem to get much punishment for it means they'll keep on. 

Rugby simply has to sort out no arms tackles. Yes, the French guy was falling into the tackle and the original stance of the Kiwi seemed reasonable, but then he went shoulder first into the guy's head.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 11:27am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Are they the best because they're not punished or not punished because they're the best? Probably both. As Warburton says in that article, they play very hard and are ferocious but I've always wondered if part of their game is to put opposition players out of the game with said hard play. That they never seem to get much punishment for it means they'll keep on. 

Rugby simply has to sort out no arms tackles. Yes, the French guy was falling into the tackle and the original stance of the Kiwi seemed reasonable, but then he went shoulder first into the guy's head.

but then the other side, their skill level is far higher than anyone else and they seem to have an abundance of strength in depth. and when theres a slight chance to score, more often than not, they will score. thats how they are the best IMO. Never say die attitude. Never give up attitude. Losing not an option attitude. They are never pleased with losing to any side, no matter how hard they played, how well they played, how close they came...thats the difference between them and many other sides - esepecially Wales. Wales will say things like we did well, we were close, plenty of positives etc....New Zealand will say we lost, not good enough, how well we played doesnt matter as we lost. Its attitude as well as ability. They train rugby, for years, Northern Hem sides became obsessed with the gym. now, closer to home, look at Scarlets. new players coming in cant get over how much work we do WITH a rugby ball (since stevo came in). mind boggling. They do a lot of ball work and it is paying off. The game a year or two ago, Wales v New Zealand, I was watching both sides in warm up. Wales doing sprints, hits, hookers throwing and aiming at the posts, kickers kicking, and some general drills. All Blacks...they were doing ball handling skills. quick hands. but with a tennis ball.  

Whilst there are decisions that go their way, a farce what is happenned recently, but, they are clinical in attack. For example, v Wales, a year or two ago, Wales were camped on their try line for about 35 mins of the first half and could not score. All Black had 2 opportunities - scored 2 tries. Nothing to do with punishment or lack of.

But as for the part in bold, you do see the better teams winning those 50/50 calls. Even scarlets have had a few calls go our way when they shouldnt have since being champions. not that I am saying that hit is a 50/50 call but you get what I mean. Extremely poor officiating - as for the citing commisioner he should hang his head in shame.
The red today, its the way the game is. touch a player in the air, its a red...we know that all too well.




Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Are they the best because they're not punished or not punished because they're the best? Probably both. As Warburton says in that article, they play very hard and are ferocious but I've always wondered if part of their game is to put opposition players out of the game with said hard play. That they never seem to get much punishment for it means they'll keep on. 

Rugby simply has to sort out no arms tackles. Yes, the French guy was falling into the tackle and the original stance of the Kiwi seemed reasonable, but then he went shoulder first into the guy's head.

but then the other side, their skill level is far higher than anyone else and they seem to have an abundance of strength in depth. and when theres a slight chance to score, more often than not, they will score. thats how they are the best IMO. Never say die attitude. Never give up attitude. Losing not an option attitude. They are never pleased with losing to any side, no matter how hard they played, how well they played, how close they came...thats the difference between them and many other sides - esepecially Wales. Wales will say things like we did well, we were close, plenty of positives etc....New Zealand will say we lost, not good enough, how well we played doesnt matter as we lost. Its attitude as well as ability. They train rugby, for years, Northern Hem sides became obsessed with the gym. now, closer to home, look at Scarlets. new players coming in cant get over how much work we do WITH a rugby ball (since stevo came in). mind boggling. They do a lot of ball work and it is paying off. The game a year or two ago, Wales v New Zealand, I was watching both sides in warm up. Wales doing sprints, hits, hookers throwing and aiming at the posts, kickers kicking, and some general drills. All Blacks...they were doing ball handling skills. quick hands. but with a tennis ball.  

Whilst there are decisions that go their way, a farce what is happenned recently, but, they are clinical in attack. For example, v Wales, a year or two ago, Wales were camped on their try line for about 35 mins of the first half and could not score. All Black had 2 opportunities - scored 2 tries. Nothing to do with punishment or lack of.

But as for the part in bold, you do see the better teams winning those 50/50 calls. Even scarlets have had a few calls go our way when they shouldnt have since being champions. not that I am saying that hit is a 50/50 call but you get what I mean. Extremely poor officiating - as for the citing commisioner he should hang his head in shame.
The red today, its the way the game is. touch a player in the air, its a red...we know that all too well.



Except of course if you're a baby AB taking out a Welshman in the air in the U20 RWC !!!!!


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 16 June 2018 at 2:46pm
In today's match you could hardly claim that the All Blacks skill level was far higher than that of the French. Moreover the pace and power of the French was superior. I think the French could easily have won if it wasn't for that early red card.


Posted By: Turkpower
Date Posted: 17 June 2018 at 1:42pm
Sean Fitzpatrick once said "The better we get the luckier we get".


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 June 2018 at 2:25pm
Didn't see the game, but have seen the red card.

Even Hansen (the ABs coach) felt it was harsh, and called for rugby to introduce a RL-style 'on report' system to deal with difficult decisions like this one - quite a good idea, I think.

What Fall did was similar to Steff's red card - he was looking at the ball ALL THE TIME, and was not aware of the AB's position. It wasn't deliberate, as Hansen said. A debate elsewhere has said that since there are concerns about player safety if they jump high (or are lifted in the line-outs), maybe jumping in free play or lifting in line-outs should be banned... an interesting idea...not sure what to think of that, but lifting in lineouts was not allowed back in the day, so banning that would certainly have a precedent and make line-outs safer... it would bring back demands on the athleticism (and, I suppose, height) of the players. Delme used to do his own jumping, and pretty effective it was, too!

As for jumping in free play - as far as I know, it's always been allowed - except for jumping into a tackle, as they do in American football. Given the height players get nowadays, and the speed they go into collision, it might be worth considering. I'm not sure.

Still feel that last week's shoulder to the head was as clear a red as you'd want to see, whereas today's was a 'ref's call' one.


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 17 June 2018 at 6:02pm
Rugby has to return to intent-based disciplining (actually not sure if intent was ever actually mentioned within the laws of the game but that would be what I'd advocate for).
Rugby is a contact game you will never make it injury free. If someone wants to clatter someone round the neck, then red. If someone slips up making a tackle, it should be a penalty. Etc.


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 17 June 2018 at 10:17pm
The problem with banning jumping in open play is that it would prevent smaller players from using they're athleticism to get up higher than the taller players - if you're banned jumping then the taller player would always get the ball and we'd have lots more Kicks and very tall wingers.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 18 June 2018 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

The problem with banning jumping in open play is that it would prevent smaller players from using they're athleticism to get up higher than the taller players - if you're banned jumping then the taller player would always get the ball and we'd have lots more Kicks and very tall wingers.

Yes indeed - it all depends on how many serious injuries occur as a result of this, IMO... it would be a pity to ban it... but if they don't ban it, they ought to allow the ref some discretion regarding intent, as Sospan says.


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 18 June 2018 at 9:53am
Red card rescinded by World Rugby, as the French player was
"looking at the ball".

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https://twitter.com/Smallclone/status/985790016319315968" rel="nofollow - Top 25 European tries of all time


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 18 June 2018 at 11:01am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Red card rescinded by World Rugby, as the French player was
"looking at the ball".
 

Pity that they couldn't have had someone with the authority to say that at the match or at least rescind it to a yellow. As it was that early red ruined the match as a fair competition.  


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 18 June 2018 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Red card rescinded by World Rugby, as the French player was
"looking at the ball".
 

Pity that they couldn't have had someone with the authority to say that at the match or at least rescind it to a yellow. As it was that early red ruined the match as a fair competition.  


I think from reading the statement by the panel that it was not the case that it was rescinded because he always had his eyes on the ball (but that helped his case) - key bit states : 'In our opinion the direct and proximate cause for that outcome [that being him bashing into Barrett] was the result of the player's collision with New Zealand number 13. As a result [of that collision - which was not his fault] the player was denied the time (less than a second) and the space to put himself in a position to avoid collision with New Zealand number 10 or to contest the ball as he had originally planned' - so I guess he told them he had planned to leap to catch it but the collision with Lienert-Brown meant .........

If it was just about keeping eyes on the ball then a lot of the recent sending offs would/should have been rescinded. That said I think there is a bit of a change taking place with the feeling that the current rulings are too harsh on players who keep eyes on ball and would have been in a perfect position to catch the ball had the opposition player not jumped into the air and into them. But whether they will change it ? There have been less sending offs this season for sure and it has also led to less up and unders so that's got to be good news.

I agree it would be good in theory in those situations to have the player off the pitch until it has been checked by someone in authority (like I believe they did in League)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 18 June 2018 at 4:39pm
So the French player’s field of vision didn’t reach as far as a guy in black coming towards him?


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 22 June 2018 at 12:54pm
World Rugby have issued the following statement:

"World Rugby would like to reconfirm the guidelines employed by match officials and the judicial process relating to challenges in the air, following public and media commentary during the June tests.

"The guidelines, which have been operational since 2016, deal with when two players are challenging for a ball in the air and are designed to give clarity and alignment regarding the red card threshold. These guidelines are:

  • If a player is not in a realistic position to gather the ball, there is contact and their opponent lands on their back or side – Yellow card
  • If a player is not in a realistic position to gather the ball, there is reckless or deliberate foul play and the player lands in a dangerous position – Red card

"A player having eyes on the ball is not by itself a mitigating factor when the match officials are determining whether potential foul play has been committed. The primary consideration is whether both players were in a realistic position to regather the ball."



Posted By: John
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 9:46am
The French look like a transformed side this morning and have been playing a proper off- loading game at pace. To the extent that they have made the ABs look like a side playing static one out rugby. However, when Damian Mckenzie is playing flyhalf as he is today, things are not static and his two tries are the current difference between the sides. Mckenzie is a devastating full back but a lethal flyhalf. What a player!


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 10:09am
France in attack brilliant (compared to recent years) but they've lost most of their line outs, defence far too passive and NZ amazing in attack (look like they will score each time they have the ball) and powerful defence. Chat great at hooker and both French centres (in attack)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 10:10am
Any controversy with the ref? People complain about officials in rugby as if it’s the only sport it happens in. Seen some of the decisions in the World Cup?


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 10:22am
There was indeed (Lacey blocking Serin for NZ try which put them 21-14 up). But would have been big NZ win anyway


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 11:02am
And if the Scarlets ever got away with murder like New Zealand we’d all stop supporting them for being cheats yes.


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 11:17am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

And if the Scarlets ever got away with murder like New Zealand we’d all stop supporting them for being cheats yes.
Do you ever give it a rest? That was a disgraceful decision by Lacey. It wasn’t exactly your average refereeing howler

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Rich (Bris)
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 12:07pm
I can only assume he thinks he has to stand somewhere and Sarin should have found a way round him &/or &/or deliberately bran into him a&/or would not have got to MacKenzie anyway (which is possible) but if so I think he wrong on this occasion and the fact he didn't change view having consulted TMO is weird.


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 23 June 2018 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Any controversy with the ref? People complain about officials in rugby as if it’s the only sport it happens in. Seen some of the decisions in the World Cup?


I don't think anyone has ever said that refereeing howlers are exclusive to rugby but this is a rugby forum and we are not unduly concerned about wendyball world cups.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

I can only assume he thinks he has to stand somewhere and Sarin should have found a way round him &/or &/or deliberately bran into him a&/or would not have got to MacKenzie anyway (which is possible) but if so I think he wrong on this occasion and the fact he didn't change view having consulted TMO is weird.

Serein should have taken the Gareth Edwards option - a long time ago, trying to burst over from a scrum near the opposition line, he found the ref in his way. Gareth ran straight over the top of him, breaking the ref's leg  (or shoulder.. not sure of injury) in the process. Unfortunately, it slowed him down enough for the defence to prevent him scoring.

That is what refs deserve, if they interfere with play!


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I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)



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