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Financing

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Topic: Financing
Posted By: EJPT
Subject: Financing
Date Posted: 15 March 2020 at 11:38pm
With the season being in the balance i’d like to see the WRU put their hands in their pockets and support the regions more so than before. 

Maybe it’s wishful thinking... but this virus will damage the good work the club and its staff have put in over the past few seasons. 

Another thought goes to our rivals. They were on the brink of collapse not so long ago, how are they going to fare with no gate receipts. 

A further point, season tickets will also take a hit in the following season(s). Should it not be played out, will the club take the hit on these offer some discount on renewal or special offer somewhere , can’t recall how many games were left to play at the parc?

And whilst some will understand there will be those who don’t and sadly that could be to the detriment of future ticket sales.



Replies:
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:19am
The WRU will also be taking a hit, and every part of the game will need support.

I think we may be able to weather the storm, as long as the existing TV contracts and WRU payments are honoured.

It's going to be a testing time though, for all three private companies


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 9:18am
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

With the season being in the balance i’d like to see the WRU put their hands in their pockets and support the regions more so than before. 

Maybe it’s wishful thinking... but this virus will damage the good work the club and its staff have put in over the past few seasons. 

Another thought goes to our rivals. They were on the brink of collapse not so long ago, how are they going to fare with no gate receipts. 

A further point, season tickets will also take a hit in the following season(s). Should it not be played out, will the club take the hit on these offer some discount on renewal or special offer somewhere , can’t recall how many games were left to play at the parc?

And whilst some will understand there will be those who don’t and sadly that could be to the detriment of future ticket sales.
 

Why is it right that the club takes the hit on this season’s tickets and not us? The club didn’t cause the virus. We just all write off this season’s remaining games ; be happy if we come through the pandemic unscathed and we start again with new season tickets . 

I leave the clubs to discuss other matters with the WRU. Very worrying times for the Scarlets and Welsh rugby 


Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 9:29am
If the season is cancelled, I dont want any refund frankly. Support the club.



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Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872


Posted By: thommo
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 9:36am
[QUOTE=supertaf]If the season is cancelled, I dont want any refund frankly. Support the club


[/QUOTE
Agree. Don't think any genuine fan will be looking for a refund. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 10:57am
Season ticket holder will understand and will not be after any refund
 
The wru should help but it also needs to help pretty much every club who is a member of the union as none of them are currently playing and all clubs at all levels will be losing out
 
The quickest way the wru can raise funds is by playing more test games but that option is out of the question at the moment
 
There is no easy way out of this and I'm sad to say but this will send some clubs to the wall
 
I have no idea if the tv company's have a clause where by they don't have to pay for  games that don't go ahead,
 
 


Posted By: cymraes
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 3:44pm
Agree. I think all season ticket holders will have the welfare of the region at heart and not expect a refund.  However, the Scarlets could consider an an extra generous early bird offer for renewals as a thank you - and get some early cash in at the same time.


Posted By: Haruki
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 5:06pm
Will the WRU be in a position to help?

They have lost one home game from the 6N that would have been in the budget, plus until the competition ends they wont get any prize money which is a huge part of their annual budget.
I cant see how they can support 4 regions plus the semi pro game if their own income has taken a huge hit. We just have to hope we have enough to see ourselves through the next few months


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by cymraes cymraes wrote:

Agree. I think all season ticket holders will have the welfare of the region at heart and not expect a refund.  However, the Scarlets could consider an an extra generous early bird offer for renewals as a thank you - and get some early cash in at the same time.
 Totally disagree with you about an extra  discount  as all I am missing now is watching a few games of rugby and next season as a supporter I shall secure new tickets at whatever early bird rates the Scarlets offer . In fact I would expect tickets to go up to reflect the losses incurred by the club in these lost months. This would be small individually compared to what the Board founders are being asked to put in. We need the Scarlets to come through losing months of income and any lost non rugby events which may well leave gaping holes in budgets 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Haruki Haruki wrote:

Will the WRU be in a position to help?

They have lost one home game from the 6N that would have been in the budget, plus until the competition ends they wont get any prize money which is a huge part of their annual budget.
I cant see how they can support 4 regions plus the semi pro game if their own income has taken a huge hit. We just have to hope we have enough to see ourselves through the next few months
The WRU have big assets and little debt.

As the governments around the world are doing with their Quantitative Easing and Fiscal Stimuli, the WRU could ease the purse strings and increase their borrowing to get over the temporary cashflow problems. They do have that capacity.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Haruki Haruki wrote:

Will the WRU be in a position to help?

They have lost one home game from the 6N that would have been in the budget, plus until the competition ends they wont get any prize money which is a huge part of their annual budget.
I cant see how they can support 4 regions plus the semi pro game if their own income has taken a huge hit. We just have to hope we have enough to see ourselves through the next few months
The WRU have big assets and little debt.

As the governments around the world are doing with their Quantitative Easing and Fiscal Stimuli, the WRU could ease the purse strings and increase their borrowing to get over the temporary cashflow problems. The  do have that capacity.
Perhaps a mini government budget in the summer to make adjustments Steve ? No one saw this coming did they. I’m just glad we got out of Hong Kong coming home in December 👍. 

Yes WRU could do something as well 


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 6:01pm
It's time for the WRU to earn their corn tbh.

They've channeled through to them TV revenues to then distribute as appropriate.

This has helped them leverage and to spread out they borrowings and debt repayments.

They do now need to seek out borrowing (over the next 6 months) to supplement the losses at regional and grass roots level.





Posted By: Scarlet Tom
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 6:08pm
Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 




Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 


Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Scarlet Tom
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 


Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.

Totally agree. The WRU need to step in quickly. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting
Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.
i think the english and french governing bodies may not agree with you tbh


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 


Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.

Totally agree. The WRU need to step in quickly
 they did apparently they took international ticket money from members clubs accounts hours before they called match off.Angry


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:19pm
In their defence that process would have been started days before when game was still on


Posted By: Scarlet Tom
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 


Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.

Totally agree. The WRU need to step in quickly
 they did apparently they took international ticket money from members clubs accounts hours before they called match off.Angry

So I understand. Not good. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting
Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.
i think the english and french governing bodies may not agree with you tbh
Without having looked it up, I would think that the TV rights payments are multiples of what went before the pro era, even allowing for inflation.

Sure, the governing bodies don’t have it all their own way.

Instead, I’d imagine they have people that are paid massively more than before.

Whether that’s the pro era or the advent of satellite TV, the money in the game has gone up hugely. It’s time for the governing bodies to give more support to their pro sides and maybe further down the pyramid.

We can all think of tales told about the benefits of sitting on governing body committees. Those years of plenty need to be repaid.


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 16 March 2020 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

In their defence that process would have been started days before when game was still on

Yes, the money always comes out the clubs account between 24 & 36 hours before kick off of the Wales match. 


Posted By: ScarletBear
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 4:00am
Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting. 


Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.

Totally agree. The WRU need to step in quickly. 

To compound it, they lost out on Scottish match takings.


-------------
Scarlets before Wales


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 7:35am
Of course the WRU have it in their power to stabilise regional/grass roots rugby in this very unusual time. My huge worry is do they have the personnel who are capable of leading the sport through this period. We have a CEO who is serving notice and a chairman who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights suggesting he had no alternative other than to cancel last weekend's game two hours after saying it was going ahead and contrary to the expert advice. Very worrying times. 


Posted By: Scarlet Tom
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 11:08am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Of course the WRU have it in their power to stabilise regional/grass roots rugby in this very unusual time. My huge worry is do they have the personnel who are capable of leading the sport through this period. We have a CEO who is serving notice and a chairman who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights suggesting he had no alternative other than to cancel last weekend's game two hours after saying it was going ahead and contrary to the expert advice. Very worrying times. 

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Of course the WRU have it in their power to stabilise regional/grass roots rugby in this very unusual time. My huge worry is do they have the personnel who are capable of leading the sport through this period. We have a CEO who is serving notice and a chairman who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights suggesting he had no alternative other than to cancel last weekend's game two hours after saying it was going ahead and contrary to the expert advice. Very worrying times. 

Yeah, acting on a situation is one thing, but whether it is the right action is another thing altogether. I hope any decisions made are done with the long term future of the game in mind and not just a quick fix.

On the subject of potential quick fixes the Guardian has a good article looking at how clubs and leagues of various sports might be tempted or even forced by the present situation into mergers, new TV deals (think CVC and Sky with the Six Nations) etc that offer an immediate solution with money but won't have the long term future of the sports in question at the core of their thinking. The article ends with;

"Ask yourself a question: how far do you trust these people ( administrators and executives, sponsors and speculators, agents and marketers) to act in the best interests of the sport you love?"

Full article here. Worth a read. 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/mar/16/beware-sporting-disaster-capitalists-crisis-go-to-waste" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/mar/16/beware-sporting-disaster-capitalists-crisis-go-to-waste


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Of course the WRU have it in their power to stabilise regional/grass roots rugby in this very unusual time. My huge worry is do they have the personnel who are capable of leading the sport through this period. We have a CEO who is serving notice and a chairman who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights suggesting he had no alternative other than to cancel last weekend's game two hours after saying it was going ahead and contrary to the expert advice. Very worrying times. 

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Of course the WRU have it in their power to stabilise regional/grass roots rugby in this very unusual time. My huge worry is do they have the personnel who are capable of leading the sport through this period. We have a CEO who is serving notice and a chairman who looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights suggesting he had no alternative other than to cancel last weekend's game two hours after saying it was going ahead and contrary to the expert advice. Very worrying times. 

Yeah, acting on a situation is one thing, but whether it is the right action is another thing altogether. I hope any decisions made are done with the long term future of the game in mind and not just a quick fix.

On the subject of potential quick fixes the Guardian has a good article looking at how clubs and leagues of various sports might be tempted or even forced by the present situation into mergers, new TV deals (think CVC and Sky with the Six Nations) etc that offer an immediate solution with money but won't have the long term future of the sports in question at the core of their thinking. The article ends with;

"Ask yourself a question: how far do you trust these people ( administrators and executives, sponsors and speculators, agents and marketers) to act in the best interests of the sport you love?"

Full article here. Worth a read. 
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/mar/16/beware-sporting-disaster-capitalists-crisis-go-to-waste" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/mar/16/beware-sporting-disaster-capitalists-crisis-go-to-waste

Interesting article. How far do I trust? The WRU executives - well about as far as I could throw them. The saving grace for me is that the club I follow with a passion is run by people I trust implicitly. We are all in testing times and need good people to lead. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Tom Scarlet Tom wrote:

Wales Online article from earlier today. 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/welsh-teams-face-potential-devastation-17932295?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I'm very worried about all of the regions and clubs making money. Even if this is 'resolved' quickly I fear the implications and even damage could be long lasting
Most pro rugby clubs in whichever country don’t make money.

Without the pro rugby club entities, the governing bodies would never have had it as good as they have been enjoying since the era of professionalism arrived.

Like it or not, the national governing bodies will need to behave like governments and central banks have done and support those below them in the pyramid, unless they want to shoot themselves in the collective foot.

Helpfully, those in the WRU will have learned from the poor decisions of the former office holders.
i think the english and french governing bodies may not agree with you tbh
Without having looked it up, I would think that the TV rights payments are multiples of what went before the pro era, even allowing for inflation.

Sure, the governing bodies don’t have it all their own way.

Instead, I’d imagine they have people that are paid massively more than before.

Whether that’s the pro era or the advent of satellite TV, the money in the game has gone up hugely. It’s time for the governing bodies to give more support to their pro sides and maybe further down the pyramid.

We can all think of tales told about the benefits of sitting on governing body committees. Those years of plenty need to be repaid.
 
 
 The argument the  governing bodys would put forward is  the value of the international game is  not linked to the value of the club game
 
There is an argument that clubs signing players that then no longer play test rugby for their contrives reduces the value of the test game.
 
 
The WRU has a duty to help all of it's members the regions, the semi pros and the grass roots
 
I'm  with Rochester I am not sure they have the will or ability to help, this is a grim time for the sport and things could well get a lot worse.



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