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Dark Anniversery

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Topic: Dark Anniversery
Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Subject: Dark Anniversery
Date Posted: 18 March 2020 at 8:17pm
Not a great time for most of the planet's population, but there are some who have had a far worse time of it, and tomorrow sees the 17th anniversary of one such event.-
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/18/12-ways-the-u-s-invasion-of-iraq-lives-on-in-infamy/" rel="nofollow - https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/18/12-ways-the-u-s-invasion-of-iraq-lives-on-in-infamy/



Replies:
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 12:12pm
a master class in how not to have an effective exit strategy planned. Deposing saddam was not the problem planning what to do afterwards was. It left a power vacuum for militias hell bent on a secretarian    civil war to  People can love or loather trump but no way he would commit the usa to a ground war on such a scale on foreign shores


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 12:45pm
I don't think getting rid of Saddam was the purpose of the US led invasion. If it was, they would be long gone especially after the Iraqi parliament has recently voted unanimously to expel them. Control of the oil has always been the main US motivation. This is clear from the (again) totally illegal occupation of parts of Syria where Trump is brazenly admitting that the US is taking (stealing) the Syrian oil. And it's no coincidence that two of the governments that the US is doing its dirtiest, best to overthrow are Iran and Venezuela, two very big oil producers. Also, the wanton destruction of Libya by the US and its attack poodles was again designed to control oil, although you wouldn't think so at the time from the lies and propaganda onslaught of our servile media. Of course helping the people of those countries to rebuild is out of the question for the "indispensable, exceptional" nation.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

I don't think getting rid of Saddam was the purpose of the US led invasion. If it was, they would be long gone especially after the Iraqi parliament has recently voted unanimously to expel them. Control of the oil has always been the main US motivation. This is clear from the (again) totally illegal occupation of parts of Syria where Trump is brazenly admitting that the US is taking (stealing) the Syrian oil. And it's no coincidence that two of the governments that the US is doing its dirtiest, best to overthrow are Iran and Venezuela, two very big oil producers. Also, the wanton destruction of Libya by the US and its attack poodles was again designed to control oil, although you wouldn't think so at the time from the lies and propaganda onslaught of our servile media. Of course helping the people of those countries to rebuild is out of the question for the "indispensable, exceptional" nation.
 
Iran are as big a danger as anyone , aren't they and Saudi in the middle of shia/sunni proxy war all over the middle east
 
I don't about venezula , their govt seems financially incompetent but usa sanctions are not helping and this is probably a political element to it all so I'd say neither is blameless
 
The world is a mess , this is a new age of empire (china buying up huge swathes of Africa)
 
I don't think any major power is the good guy anymore , it's all over my head :)
 
 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 2:08pm
I think we are now almost certainly going to see China as the leading superpower, if it isn't already. Although I don't know what's going on in Russia at the moment but Putin is self-electing himself as permanent leader in a similar manner to Xi. Strange but the only thing challenging this is the US's military presence and trigger-happy reputation. 


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think we are now almost certainly going to see China as the leading superpower, if it isn't already. Although I don't know what's going on in Russia at the moment but Putin is self-electing himself as permanent leader in a similar manner to Xi. Strange but the only thing challenging this is the US's military presence and trigger-happy reputation. 


Challenging what exactly? Does China or Russia have 800 military bases around the world to threaten anyone not willing to bow down to the US empire and allow their corporations to loot their resources?


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think we are now almost certainly going to see China as the leading superpower, if it isn't already. Although I don't know what's going on in Russia at the moment but Putin is self-electing himself as permanent leader in a similar manner to Xi. Strange but the only thing challenging this is the US's military presence and trigger-happy reputation. 


Challenging what exactly? Does China or Russia have 800 military bases around the world to threaten anyone not willing to bow down to the US empire and allow their corporations to loot their resources?
 
The Russian military are involved all over the globe, especially in Syria and we all have seen their actions in the Ukraine. They have bases in places like Georgia,armenia and Belarus. Their forces are well drilled , well prepared and well supplied  not to be taken lightly
 
The Chinese are not as involved military wise more in financial way, they have a huge military force in terms of numbers the largest in the world but how much action have they seen and how effective a fighting force are they? Personally I wouldn't rate them at all  .
 
Finance wise India is a growing power on the world stage and apparently brazil is gearing up to be a force  in years to come  well, there is a huge increase in their middle and upper classes.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 3:11pm
Not sure it was a good idea entering this thread but China makes a lot of stuff the US uses plus isn't the US in ginormous debt to them as well? That must go some distance towards power and influence? And BTW we know you hate the USA, this has just about come across.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Not sure it was a good idea entering this thread but China makes a lot of stuff the US uses plus isn't the US in ginormous debt to them as well? That must go some distance towards power and influence? And BTW we know you hate the USA, this has just about come across.
 
I didn't get that from his comments at all Wink


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Not sure it was a good idea entering this thread but China makes a lot of stuff the US uses plus isn't the US in ginormous debt to them as well? That must go some distance towards power and influence? And BTW we know you hate the USA, this has just about come across.
 
I didn't get that from his comments at all Wink

LOL


Posted By: BlackwoodScarlet
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

I don't think getting rid of Saddam was the purpose of the US led invasion. If it was, they would be long gone especially after the Iraqi parliament has recently voted unanimously to expel them. Control of the oil has always been the main US motivation. This is clear from the (again) totally illegal occupation of parts of Syria where Trump is brazenly admitting that the US is taking (stealing) the Syrian oil. And it's no coincidence that two of the governments that the US is doing its dirtiest, best to overthrow are Iran and Venezuela, two very big oil producers. Also, the wanton destruction of Libya by the US and its attack poodles was again designed to control oil, although you wouldn't think so at the time from the lies and propaganda onslaught of our servile media. Of course helping the people of those countries to rebuild is out of the question for the "indispensable, exceptional" nation.

 
Iran are as big a danger as anyone , aren't they and Saudi in the middle of shia/sunni proxy war all over the middle east
 
I don't about venezula , their govt seems financially incompetent but usa sanctions are not helping and this is probably a political element to it all so I'd say neither is blameless
 
The world is a mess , this is a new age of empire (china buying up huge swathes of Africa)
 
I don't think any major power is the good guy anymore , it's all over my head :)
 
 

Obama was Syria don't see how you can try and blame Trump

-------------
If it bleeds we can can kill it


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 4:02pm
Obama started backing Muslim jihadists in Syria and was first to send in troops, illegally violating the sovereignty of Syria, ostensibly to fight ISIS, but actually helping them attack the government. What I said about Trump that was that by openly announcing that he was stealing Syria's oil he was being quite brazen about braking international law and making the US motives obvious.
This is the sort of thing which makes Trump so unpopular with those who see themselves as fair minded liberals. Obama and Hilary Clinton did far worse to Libya, but he was never crude enough to brag about it and so with the help of a completely compliant western media allowed the so called liberals to support mass-murder without too much hassle from the American people.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 March 2020 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Obama started backing Muslim jihadists in Syria and was first to send in troops, illegally violating the sovereignty of Syria, ostensibly to fight ISIS, but actually helping them attack the government. What I said about Trump that was that by openly announcing that he was stealing Syria's oil he was being quite brazen about braking international law and making the US motives obvious.
This is the sort of thing which makes Trump so unpopular with those who see themselves as fair minded liberals. Obama and Hilary Clinton did far worse to Libya, but he was never crude enough to brag about it and so with the help of a completely compliant western media allowed the so called liberals to support mass-murder without too much hassle from the American people.
 
Syria is the biggest mess of all time, the rebels were jihadi nutters, isis are even bigger nutters, the Syrian govt commit all sorts of attrocties on their own people. barrel bombing and by all accounts chemical weapon attacks. The only good guys there are the kurds. Obama is hailed as a hero by many but he was a real war jockey much worse that trump
 
 


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 12:49pm
The Alleged chemical attacks by the Syrian govt are widely disputed. The OPCW investigators produced a report which was very controversial and used as an excuse by the West to launch a 100 cruise missile attack against government forces thus weakening them in their efforts to clear the jihadis from their territory. Why they should use poison gas and give the west an excuse to do this when they were clearly succeeding in the war against the head-choppers is even more ridiculous. The report which gave some NATO countries, including the UK the excuse, has been torn to bits has been torn to bits by 4 different whistle-blowers from within the OPCW including showing pictures of chlorine cannisters placed inside a room which could never have been dropped by an aircraft or helicopter through the entry shown because of the angles involved. Never mind, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq either but that didn't stop the West using it as an excuse to unleash hell, which continues to this day on its people.
By the way RR1972, as an ex-military man, why is a barrel bomb so much worse than all the other horrific bombs used in war - if indeed the Syrians used them- genuine question?
bomb so much worse than all the other types of bombs


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 12:54pm
I think anyone with an ounce of sense can agree on just one thing - the political leaders in most major countries are a bunch of cynical bastards, who are mainly in it for themselves!

The USA - Trump - say no more. Attempted to leave the UK and Ireland out of his travel ban, to protect his  golf courses!
Russia - Putin is looking to make himself de facto Tsar until 2036.
UK - Boris - totally out of his depth - can't take a decision that doesn't involve his next bed-mate... and even then...

I daresay there are some exceptions - just not in those countries we usually comment on...


-------------
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

The Alleged chemical attacks by the Syrian govt are widely disputed. The OPCW investigators produced a report which was very controversial and used as an excuse by the West to launch a 100 cruise missile attack against government forces thus weakening them in their efforts to clear the jihadis from their territory. Why they should use poison gas and give the west an excuse to do this when they were clearly succeeding in the war against the head-choppers is even more ridiculous. The report which gave some NATO countries, including the UK the excuse, has been torn to bits has been torn to bits by 4 different whistle-blowers from within the OPCW including showing pictures of chlorine cannisters placed inside a room which could never have been dropped by an aircraft or helicopter through the entry shown because of the angles involved. Never mind, there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq either but that didn't stop the West using it as an excuse to unleash hell, which continues to this day on its people.
By the way RR1972, as an ex-military man, why is a barrel bomb so much worse than all the other horrific bombs used in war - if indeed the Syrians used them- genuine question?
bomb so much worse than all the other types of bombs
 
 
I was infantry rather than airforce but from what I know they tend to be packed with things like nails, metal and glass or even oil   not just explosives , the injuries are more painful and tend to leave worse wounds and will spread over a wider area
 
As you say though if you get blown up by an ordinary bomb or a barrel bomb in doesn't really matter ,
 
There is no doubt the rebels in alepo were also lying imo, we had that  "child" tweeting in the middle of bombing raids for weeks on end and hospitals getting bombed hourly for what seemed like months
 
how many hospitals did that city have?
 
 
Syria is a total mess , we should have stayed out of there and out of  Iraq and Libya from day one.
 
I agreed with the afghan war but again lack of afterplanning and exit strategy caused huge problems
 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I think anyone with an ounce of sense can agree on just one thing - the political leaders in most major countries are a bunch of cynical bastards, who are mainly in it for themselves!

The USA - Trump - say no more. Attempted to leave the UK and Ireland out of his travel ban, to protect his  golf courses!
Russia - Putin is looking to make himself de facto Tsar until 2036.
UK - Boris - totally out of his depth - can't take a decision that doesn't involve his next bed-mate... and even then...

I daresay there are some exceptions - just not in those countries we usually comment on...
 
Putin is streets ahead of the other 2 imo . he is not good for the world as a whole to say the least  but he is a strong leader and he seems to be doing a good job for Russia
 
 I would back him to be the last man standing of those 3.
 
 
I think the Canadian and nz leaders appear to the "good guys/girls" but not sure how will they face up to the likes of erdogan putin and https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&rlz=1I7LENP&q=Ali+Khamenei&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLUz9U3MDIyySp6xOjMLfDyxz1hKatJa05eYzTh4grOyC93zSvJLKkUUuNig7JkuHilELo0GKS4uRBcnkWsPI45mQreGYm5qXmpmQBFstBLYgAAAA" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I think anyone with an ounce of sense can agree on just one thing - the political leaders in most major countries are a bunch of cynical bastards, who are mainly in it for themselves!

The USA - Trump - say no more. Attempted to leave the UK and Ireland out of his travel ban, to protect his  golf courses!
Russia - Putin is looking to make himself de facto Tsar until 2036.
UK - Boris - totally out of his depth - can't take a decision that doesn't involve his next bed-mate... and even then...

I daresay there are some exceptions - just not in those countries we usually comment on...
 
Putin is streets ahead of the other 2 imo . he is not good for the world as a whole to say the least  but he is a strong leader and he seems to be doing a good job for Russia
 
 I would back him to be the last man standing of those 3.
 
 
I think the Canadian and nz leaders appear to the "good guys/girls" but not sure how will they face up to the likes of erdogan putin and https://www.google.com/search?rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&rlz=1I7LENP&q=Ali+Khamenei&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLUz9U3MDIyySp6xOjMLfDyxz1hKatJa05eYzTh4grOyC93zSvJLKkUUuNig7JkuHilELo0GKS4uRBcnkWsPI45mQreGYm5qXmpmQBFstBLYgAAAA" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: Ffidel Bennett
Date Posted: 20 March 2020 at 6:48pm
Aber-fan you seem to have absorbed almost all the billionaire media attempts to vilify Putin and Russia. Did you know that Crimea was a part of Russia for hundreds of years until general secretary Kruschev (an Ukrainian) decided in 1954 to transfer it to the Ukraine. Then, as Ukraine and Russia were both republics in the Soviet Union, it didn't much matter to the vast majority of Crimeans, who were ethnic Russians. However after the break up of the Soviet Union, and a US backed right wing coup overthrew the elected government of Ukraine, both Russia and in the ethnic Russians living in the Ukraine became very anxious, in particular after Ukrainian neo-Nazis had burned alive 39 pro-Russian supporters that they had surrounded in a trade-union building in Odessa.
There was a long standing Russian naval base in Crimea's Sevastapol and the "annexation" was completed in a bloodless takeover confirmed, in a later referendum with over 90% voting to re-join Russia. The same sentiments existed in the Donbas regions but a war of secession is still raging there. If there was any large scale interference by the Russian armed forces I doubt if civilians would still be being bombarded by the Ukrainians (although even the Russians admit that there are some Russian volunteers fighting alongside the secessionists)
Aber-fan, if I had more time I would explain, in detail, why the UK govt's version of the Skripal affair is a load of nonsense-maybe some other time. But if you believe as you say that Putin is fiendishly clever, then ask yourself would he have sent two drunken, pot smoking hit-men carrying two vials of the deadliest nerve agent known to man, via regular air routes to kill an agent he had already released in a swap, and with Russia hosting the world cup later on in the year?


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 March 2020 at 1:04am
Depends if the russian military did it or if they “subbed” it out to the russian mafia who are literally as cackhanded as you make out. My personal guess is no way the russians are sending in active military operatives into the uk  in case the got caught and for  fear of a diplomatic crisis so they have ended up with two tooled up morons carrying out a botched  Freelance hit hence the mess. If the spetsnaz had done it they’d be in and out before we knew it.  But that’s just an educated guess so don’t take that as gospel



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