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Is America becoming a failed state?

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Topic: Is America becoming a failed state?
Posted By: ap sior
Subject: Is America becoming a failed state?
Date Posted: 06 January 2021 at 8:40pm
Unbelievable scenes in the Capitol Building in Washington. Shots have been fired by Trump supporters, police have drawn arms and used tear gas. 



Replies:
Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:31am
I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:45am
Trump has lost the Presidency, the Senate and the House in one term.
Good darts sir.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:46am
Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:03am
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1

Probably because the mob was majority (all?) white, but that's a hypothetical. It could have been a lot worse - although I read they also planted pipe bombs as well?

This was an attempted coup, there's no other way to describe it. The 25th amendment is getting a lot of hits online right now.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:07am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 
I wouldn't be too sure about that gareth he has pissed off a lot of people at the top end of american politics and his phone call was illegal if he is not arrested for this i'm sure that the fuss about his financial dealings will be scrutinised even more thoroughly,certainly showed terrorists how easy it is to get through.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:20am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Absolutely disgraceful scenes all encouraged by Trump himself and his loathsome ally Rudy Guiliani who actually suggested to the crowd that they should make it a trial by combat. Trump has succeeded, in four short years, to destroy democracy in the USA. Both he and Guiliani should, but won't, be arrested and tried for incitement. 

The USA has many huge problems despite seeing itself as " the leaders of the free World". They have become a laughing stock worldwide with racism, gun control and lack of pandemic action leading to a hugely divided country. President elect Biden has a huge task on his hands. 

Plus poverty. I invite you if you get a free moment to go on Googlemaps and "walk" around Skid Row, Los Angeles, a district right next to Downtown LA. Thinking about the US's biggest PR wing, Hollywood and the big TV studies, also being in the same city is strange but the key aspect about the US is an excellent self-selling ability: freedom and the American dream etc. The reality for most is very different.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:46am
Biden confirmed as next President. Hopefully the madness can end.


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 9:38am
still 13 days for trump to do his madness. i was in that building last september on holidays, went for a tour there. and there were enough police officers there present to stop a crowd. very suspicious how the police allowed the crowd to get to the actual capitol building itslef (video of them moving barriers).

they should enact the 25the amendment but not sure if they have enough time to do it. but i think they will try, if they do do it it apparently stops him from running for any other post in the future which would scupper his re-election plans in 4 years.

if that crowd was black or brown you would have seen thousands of police officers on the roads. how come the police/national guard were so slow re-acting?  

america is a true mess, Biden has a massive job to just get some sort of sanity


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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 10:54am
Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

still 13 days for trump to do his madness. i was in that building last september on holidays, went for a tour there. and there were enough police officers there present to stop a crowd. very suspicious how the police allowed the crowd to get to the actual capitol building itslef (video of them moving barriers).

they should enact the 25the amendment but not sure if they have enough time to do it. but i think they will try, if they do do it it apparently stops him from running for any other post in the future which would scupper his re-election plans in 4 years.

if that crowd was black or brown you would have seen thousands of police officers on the roads. how come the police/national guard were so slow re-acting?  

america is a true mess, Biden has a massive job to just get some sort of sanity

The problem with enacting the 25th Amendment I feel is that some of the Cabinet may want to run in 2024, there has been talk of Pence doing so. If Pence does enact the 25th, he would surely lose the support of the Trumpists should he run. It would also be ironic if Pence did push for the 25th as a few days ago he was reported as supporting Trump's claim,

Looking further forward to the future, this article, published a few days ago, lays out Biden's problem and indeed the US's problem going forward. (You may not be a Guardian reader but this is worth the read.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/01/disinformation-us-election-covid-pandemic-trump-biden" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/01/disinformation-us-election-covid-pandemic-trump-biden


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 11:27am
This is the sort of honesty that the US now needs,

Anthony Scaramucci, a former White House Communications director under Donald Trump, and now a staunch critic of the President, has been giving his reaction to events in Washington on BBC Radio 5 Live’s  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000qwrm" rel="nofollow - Wake Up to Money  programme, calling it "a sad day for the United States" but "a predictable tragedy".

Mr Scaramucci famously served 11 days in the communications role before being fired in 2017. “I have to own this for the rest of my life. I normalised him and went to go work for him," he said.

He added: “Donald Trump has become a great unifying figure in the United States. We just happen to all be unifying against him.

“In my 57 years here on planet Earth, I cannot recall a singular moment where I agreed with Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell and Joe Biden at the same time, but I did that today and I attribute that to the actions of Donald Trump'



Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 11:43am
Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:01pm
Going back to the guardian article I referred to earlier, this is a worrying development. Are we ging the same way as the US ?????

https://inews.co.uk/news/media/richard-sharp-new-bbc-chair-boris-johnson-tory-party-donor-818993" rel="nofollow - https://inews.co.uk/news/media/richard-sharp-new-bbc-chair-boris-johnson-tory-party-donor-818993


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 

That may largely be explained where and what they are moving from.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
 
 
 
 
 

That may largely be explained where and what they are moving from.
 
 
People migrate to the USA from all the world , uk , Ireland, france, aus,Canada etc 
 
It's not all 3rd world migration
 
 
People are free to leave the usa anytime they so wish, If  it is a failing state as some claim I'm sure well mass migration to far more prosperous nations ;)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Trump has been a disgrace and he clearly has a large following of loons in his support base
 
But some of the usa bashing is miles over the top (although I agree their gun laws are lunacy)
 
failed state? rampant poverty?
 
The USA is one of the best places to live on earth, there is a reason hundreds of thousands flock there every year  often  risking  life and limb to do so.
  

No one said rampant poverty so this is actually over the top. Failed state definitely is an exaggeration though! To clarify my poverty observation: I do think poverty and homelessness is a big issue in the states and you can see it in the cities (at least the ones I've been to). It's often on racial demographics as well and something like base level healthcare they have never addressed. Any politician that tries gets called a rabid socialist. The American Dream is also a survivor bias and ignores the millions who do not improve their lots so remain with very little. But the US has loads going for it, definitely. Look at these events: Trump's supporters tried something undemocratic but they got on with the vote and ruled the election result stands. Trump won't win. The US sets the agenda always due to its financial and military power, not to mention dominant media industry.

It's also a massive country, well collection of countries really, and laws, culture are very different in a state-by-state, city-by-city and county-by-county basis. I've visited several cities now and all have been very different from each other. Never seen small town or rural USA whatsoever.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:22pm
I've always enjoyed my time in the states,  granted I've only really done the touristy parts
 
I've been to parts of Africa and Asia and seen real poverty , not saying that the usa doesn't have that but it is on the whole far more affluent and the people have a better life expectancy , better chance of progression and generally a better life style
 
Not saying the usa is perfect and as you point out the health care system is a mess but my point stands people flock to the usa in pursuit of a better life and have done for hundreds of years same as people come to the uk for the exact same reason
 
We are judging the flaws of our nations on a first world perspective and that needs to be taken into account


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 6:08pm
One of the mob tried to wave the flag of the state of Georgia as a protest against the result in that state. Unfortunately he waved the flag of the country of Georgia, and not the American state! Just about sums up the intelligence of all that were there!


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 6:42pm
Whilst trump continues his embarrassing and dangerous tantrum, the US lost a record 4100 lives to covid yesterday. Just horrific.

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I've always enjoyed my time in the states,  granted I've only really done the touristy parts
 
I've been to parts of Africa and Asia and seen real poverty , not saying that the usa doesn't have that but it is on the whole far more affluent and the people have a better life expectancy , better chance of progression and generally a better life style
 
Not saying the usa is perfect and as you point out the health care system is a mess but my point stands people flock to the usa in pursuit of a better life and have done for hundreds of years same as people come to the uk for the exact same reason
 
We are judging the flaws of our nations on a first world perspective and that needs to be taken into account

I love the place. If I ever uproots I’d go there no doubt. My personal experience of the American public and in restaurants and shops in general they put people in this country to shame. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:59pm
Went to Chicago about 25 years ago, for a week, centred around a conference.

Took the opportunity to catch up with a friend who was out there for a 3 year posting for the Northern Ireland Development Board. He quite liked the novelty of it all but described it as a Police State with far too many rules.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 8:24am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whilst trump continues his embarrassing and dangerous tantrum, the US lost a record 4100 lives to covid yesterday. Just horrific.
Aye, they lost as many people in one day as they did soldiers in the whole of the Iraq war.  Almost a tenth of the whole Vietnam war.

There's a lot of work to be done to get this country back into shape.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 9:10am
I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 2:41pm
Whilst trump has clearly lost the plot here, lets face it he is absolutely furious, but he has failed to actually prove massive amounts of voter fraud in the crucial swing states so he must leave with dignity....But in the interests of balance and objectivity despite his meltdown, I do think the coverage over trump has been incredibly biased and hypocritical against him from day 1. The liberal bias is simply staggering facts bear this out. In the first few months the coverage was over 60% positive for Obama and he was even offered the nobel peace prize in the first year...The opposite was the case with Trump. The liberal media preach about respect in politics yet they go and encourage 100s of naked blimps and naked statues of the president across the major cities...If that had been done for a democratic candidate there would shouts of sexism and racism, there would be riots. 

Obama whilst having far more grace and good manners, still deported more immigrants than all the previous US presidents put together, yet nothing was said about it. But Trump was the racist. Obama used drone strikes at record numbers ,yet that was buried. One interview with 60 minutes last year when Trump stated the simple facts that prior to the covid outbreak , that unemployment rates were at their lowest in decades and the stock market was it its highest, the interviewer replied, we know thats not true. She was lying there plain and simple yet nothing was said about it. Is that acceptable? The jobs market and stock market did exceptionally well under Trump across all sectors all ages , both genders and races. 
 
The BBC america channel is completely biased has been from day 1 and offers biased opinion there is nothing neutral about it. The coverage of the BLM riots was biased, barely a word was said about the lack of social distancing and spreading the virus as 100s of thousands marched across every major city in the world. All funded by George soros. Yet when cummings broke his own rules all hell broke loose. yet the press pack chasing him were also breaking all social distancing rules themselves. The bias and hypocrisy is staggering.

Its easy all to jump on 1 man now, as his old friend piers morgan will do. As every liberal comic has done for 4 years. Yes blame trump for everything including covid. Yet the mayor of new york , a democrat, is a hero, despite the worst covid rates in america, that too is all trumps fault. Now trump who lets face it has been idiotic in many ways but especially his covid handling and encouraging massive crowds at his rallies, now hes incited his supporters to violence. Yet he has a record 72 million voters and you can bet your life they feel angry and alienated by the media coverage. The news turned a blind eye the the BLM marches the and the 19 people killed in them last year and the 1000s injured and the massive spread of the covid disease and the 100s of businesses destroyed etc Did the biased liberal media help discourage this or encourage it? Did the liberal media incite this violence?

Over 80% of CNN's coverage is about 1 man, trump bashing, who knows what they will have to talk about for the next 4 years...The bias is deeply disturbing regardless who you vote for. Lets hope mr Biden and all future presidents are scrutinised properly by the media, I very much doubt they will be.




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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whilst trump has clearly lost the plot here, lets face it he is absolutely furious, but he has failed to actually prove massive amounts of voter fraud in the crucial swing states so he must leave with dignity....But in the interests of balance and objectivity despite his meltdown, I do think the coverage over trump has been incredibly biased and hypocritical against him from day 1. The liberal bias is simply staggering facts bear this out. In the first few months the coverage was over 60% positive for Obama and he was even offered the nobel peace prize in the first year...The opposite was the case with Trump. The liberal media preach about respect in politics yet they go and encourage 100s of naked blimps and naked statues of the president across the major cities...If that had been done for a democratic candidate there would shouts of sexism and racism, there would be riots. 

Obama whilst having far more grace and good manners, still deported more immigrants than all the previous US presidents put together, yet nothing was said about it. But Trump was the racist. Obama used drone strikes at record numbers ,yet that was buried. One interview with 60 minutes last year when Trump stated the simple facts that prior to the covid outbreak , that unemployment rates were at their lowest in decades and the stock market was it its highest, the interviewer replied, we know thats not true. She was lying there plain and simple yet nothing was said about it. Is that acceptable? The jobs market and stock market did exceptionally well under Trump across all sectors all ages , both genders and races. 
 
The BBC america channel is completely biased has been from day 1 and offers biased opinion there is nothing neutral about it. The coverage of the BLM riots was biased, barely a word was said about the lack of social distancing and spreading the virus as 100s of thousands marched across every major city in the world. All funded by George soros. Yet when cummings broke his own rules all hell broke loose. yet the press pack chasing him were also breaking all social distancing rules themselves. The bias and hypocrisy is staggering.

Its easy all to jump on 1 man now, as his old friend piers morgan will do. As every liberal comic has done for 4 years. Yes blame trump for everything including covid. Yet the mayor of new york , a democrat, is a hero, despite the worst covid rates in america, that too is all trumps fault. Now trump who lets face it has been idiotic in many ways but especially his covid handling and encouraging massive crowds at his rallies, now hes incited his supporters to violence. Yet he has a record 72 million voters and you can bet your life they feel angry and alienated by the media coverage. The news turned a blind eye the the BLM marches the and the 19 people killed in them last year and the 1000s injured and the massive spread of the covid disease and the 100s of businesses destroyed etc Did the biased liberal media help discourage this or encourage it? Did the liberal media incite this violence?

Over 80% of CNN's coverage is about 1 man, trump bashing, who knows what they will have to talk about for the next 4 years...The bias is deeply disturbing regardless who you vote for. Lets hope mr Biden and all future presidents are scrutinised properly by the media, I very much doubt they will be.



Roy not a lot I can argue with in that summary. Whichever way you look at Trump you cannot get away from the fact that he is a clown. Yes he did get the American economy going in the right direction and reduced unemployment but simultaneously he took America out of the Paris climate accord. I have no doubt that this time last year he was a shoe in for re-election solely based on his economic record. However his reaction to the pandemic has shown him to be the clown he is. His reactions to clear racist behaviour by law enforcement & losing the election have shown the man in his true colours - a spoilt brat who cannot accept he is beaten fairly or indeed wrong. Inciting violence against fellow politicians is the last straw. He and that lunatic Guiliani should be behind bars. 

By the way my comments about living in America above are nothing to do with Trump although any country who can vote for a man like him as Commander in Chief is dodgy to say the least. Whoever is in power in America makes no difference to me about my desire to live there. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.

Good points and a good summary - I've been there a few times, including a 3 month working visit (poorly paid) as a student, so saw some of the issues at ground level.

I like the USA a lot in many ways, but the states are indeed like mini-countries, the judicial system is blatantly politicised, and gerrymandering has allowed the Republicans far more power than they should have based on the popular vote... Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but lost - for example. No president can achieve much without approval of both the senate and the house of representatives - the senate is now split 50:50 with a casting vote for Democrat vice-president Kamala Harries - but the Democrats needed 40 million votes more than the Republicans to get their 50 senators!

The system needs a serious overhaul, but will it get one?

(In passing - the UK's first past the post system also needs a serious overhaul, IMO. The Senedd method is more equitable.)


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whilst trump has clearly lost the plot here, lets face it he is absolutely furious, but he has failed to actually prove massive amounts of voter fraud in the crucial swing states so he must leave with dignity....But in the interests of balance and objectivity despite his meltdown, I do think the coverage over trump has been incredibly biased and hypocritical against him from day 1. The liberal bias is simply staggering facts bear this out.



You made some good points, but here - you have got to be joking.

Trump has told some 30,000 lies whilst in office - nearly all repeated without any challenge by his favourite outlets (until recently, anyway) such as Fox News. He made a point of using Twitter as his favoured method of communication - he didn't need the 'media'. His storm-troopers re-tweeted his lies - and so it went on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html

The man is a dangerous autocrat who attempted to foment a coup d'etat to keep himself in power! It is to be hoped that the Americans 'lock him up' - to recycle one of his own phrases.




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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.

Good points and a good summary - I've been there a few times, including a 3 month working visit (poorly paid) as a student, so saw some of the issues at ground level.

I like the USA a lot in many ways, but the states are indeed like mini-countries, the judicial system is blatantly politicised, and gerrymandering has allowed the Republicans far more power than they should have based on the popular vote... Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but lost - for example. No president can achieve much without approval of both the senate and the house of representatives - the senate is now split 50:50 with a casting vote for Democrat vice-president Kamala Harries - but the Democrats needed 40 million votes more than the Republicans to get their 50 senators!

The system needs a serious overhaul, but will it get one?

(In passing - the UK's first past the post system also needs a serious overhaul, IMO. The Senedd method is more equitable.)
 
 
After the shambolic handling of the pandemic the Sendedd should be scrapped imo
 
You make a good point about PR when it comes to government I'd be for that


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.

Good points and a good summary - I've been there a few times, including a 3 month working visit (poorly paid) as a student, so saw some of the issues at ground level.

I like the USA a lot in many ways, but the states are indeed like mini-countries, the judicial system is blatantly politicised, and gerrymandering has allowed the Republicans far more power than they should have based on the popular vote... Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but lost - for example. No president can achieve much without approval of both the senate and the house of representatives - the senate is now split 50:50 with a casting vote for Democrat vice-president Kamala Harries - but the Democrats needed 40 million votes more than the Republicans to get their 50 senators!

The system needs a serious overhaul, but will it get one?

(In passing - the UK's first past the post system also needs a serious overhaul, IMO. The Senedd method is more equitable.)
 
 
After the shambolic handling of the pandemic the Sendedd should be scrapped imo
 
You make a good point about PR when it comes to government I'd be for that
Why would you want to scrap the Senedd and transfer the power to Boris who doesn’t care less about Wales. Surely if you think a government has performed poorly the answer is to vote for a change of government and not scrap the whole institution.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 5:41pm
I think we're actually seeing the effects of the internet and social media rendering certain aspects of countries democracies outdated. I suspect something like this happened after the printing press and increased literacy. At first, people would believed something just because they read it on a flyer and politicians - likely from outside the established political class - would have capitalised on this. Then, over time, it became the norm or the public became desensitised and the impact lessened allowing more mainstream politics to develop further. 

People feel whatever system of representation didn't give them a say or any ability to influence a distant political party. Then Trump and Brexit came along, both of which used social media and targeted advertising expertly. It's not democracy being "hijacked" at all but a new tool most politicians - and the voting public - haven't got used to. One result has been the polarisation of voters within our echo chambers. I was going to say a strength of the us is you can vote "for the other lot" at many levels: congress, senate, governor, president, mayor if there is a much better candidate. It can impact your life a fair bit as well. In the UK it really feels like you don't have much choice and your vote rarely matters. Social media has amplified and polarised these feelings. I think change will alleviate it but it may take time as it's not in the interests of the current regime to change anything. But things do change or else we'd all be voting for the best caveman who can shout the loudest and has fathered  the most children. Oh wait a minute....


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whilst trump has clearly lost the plot here, lets face it he is absolutely furious, but he has failed to actually prove massive amounts of voter fraud in the crucial swing states so he must leave with dignity....But in the interests of balance and objectivity despite his meltdown, I do think the coverage over trump has been incredibly biased and hypocritical against him from day 1. The liberal bias is simply staggering facts bear this out.



You made some good points, but here - you have got to be joking.

Trump has told some 30,000 lies whilst in office - nearly all repeated without any challenge by his favourite outlets (until recently, anyway) such as Fox News. He made a point of using Twitter as his favoured method of communication - he didn't need the 'media'. His storm-troopers re-tweeted his lies - and so it went on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html

The man is a dangerous autocrat who attempted to foment a coup d'etat to keep himself in power! It is to be hoped that the Americans 'lock him up' - to recycle one of his own phrases.



Im as shocked as anyone by how he has behaved , especially in the last few weeks. I still find it hard to believe he thought such a coup was possible>? But I totally agree he has whipped up his crowd into a frenzy and the man has blood on his hands here...But For me its his handling of covid which is his ultimate failure , especially by encouraging massive crowds to his rallies...As for counting the lies, Im not sure that can be done accurately by a biased media , firstly when is a lie a lie? Much of his hyperbole is either exaggeration or selective facts and figures or over seemingly unrealistic predictions? How can one excavate all the lies from the merely exaggerated hyperbole or over optimistic predictions? Thats not to forget theres lots of lies half truths and exaggerations on all sides...Just take a look at the brexit campaign Take a look at bidens forgotten past take a look at the fact obama deported a record of over 2.5 million immigrants , the record drone strikes , brushed under the carpet.

Trumps anti globalist rhetoric made him the biggest enemies of all, the richest people in the world...How much news coverage is goven to the miniscule amounts of taxation paid by these corporations? This is starving our public services, yet it hardly makes the headlines anymore...Is it lies ? or bias? or selective news? Or is it the fact the news has been bought out by these very same corporations. Lets burn trump at the stake and Im sure all these other problems will disappear Wink




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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 08 January 2021 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think we're actually seeing the effects of the internet and social media rendering certain aspects of countries democracies outdated. I suspect something like this happened after the printing press and increased literacy. At first, people would believed something just because they read it on a flyer and politicians - likely from outside the established political class - would have capitalised on this. Then, over time, it became the norm or the public became desensitised and the impact lessened allowing more mainstream politics to develop further. 

People feel whatever system of representation didn't give them a say or any ability to influence a distant political party. Then Trump and Brexit came along, both of which used social media and targeted advertising expertly. It's not democracy being "hijacked" at all but a new tool most politicians - and the voting public - haven't got used to. One result has been the polarisation of voters within our echo chambers. I was going to say a strength of the us is you can vote "for the other lot" at many levels: congress, senate, governor, president, mayor if there is a much better candidate. It can impact your life a fair bit as well. In the UK it really feels like you don't have much choice and your vote rarely matters. Social media has amplified and polarised these feelings. I think change will alleviate it but it may take time as it's not in the interests of the current regime to change anything. But things do change or else we'd all be voting for the best caveman who can shout the loudest and has fathered  the most children. Oh wait a minute....

All subtlety and nuance has been lost, all sense of cooperation collaboration compromise has been lost, actual discussion debate convsersation has been lost... everythung is black and white ....agree with us or we will name call you a bigot, sad times.


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 9:17am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.

Good points and a good summary - I've been there a few times, including a 3 month working visit (poorly paid) as a student, so saw some of the issues at ground level.

I like the USA a lot in many ways, but the states are indeed like mini-countries, the judicial system is blatantly politicised, and gerrymandering has allowed the Republicans far more power than they should have based on the popular vote... Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but lost - for example. No president can achieve much without approval of both the senate and the house of representatives - the senate is now split 50:50 with a casting vote for Democrat vice-president Kamala Harries - but the Democrats needed 40 million votes more than the Republicans to get their 50 senators!

The system needs a serious overhaul, but will it get one?

(In passing - the UK's first past the post system also needs a serious overhaul, IMO. The Senedd method is more equitable.)
 
 
After the shambolic handling of the pandemic the Sendedd should be scrapped imo
 
You make a good point about PR when it comes to government I'd be for that

WRT PR - do you know that the English government has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on spin-doctors, as part of their 'effort' to manipulate the news? Money that would have been better spent on dealing with the COVID crisis?

As part of this effort, the spinners will exaggerate greatly the 'successes' of the English government, and immediately jump on any perceived 'failures' in the devolved administrations.

One example: Wales - following more closely the recommendations of the SAGE advisory group on using a 'firebreak' lockdown (it should have been done in September, according to SAGE) used the tactic by introducing the firebreak at half-term... too late (and experience showed it was too short) but still much earlier than England. For a while, the numbers improved in Wales; they continued to get much worse in England, until they, too, had to impose a lockdown.

Did we hear about this in the English press? No, by and large - we didn't.

Then, later on, when the English had to impose their much longer lockdown - made necessary by their earlier shilly-shallying - their numbers reduced. By then, we had come out of lockdown, and ours were on the way up again.

What did we hear in the papers, and from Johnson? A great success for England - and failure for Wales.

In truth, we were at different parts of the curve, having followed different timetables - that's all. But you would not know that if you believe the spinners.

Do I think Wales has got it right, and England has got it wrong? No - I don't think any of the UK governments has done very well... but as England is the dominant country, and as we have to some extent been forced to follow their pattern, they carry the major responsibility - for example, in spending billions on the privatised, failed 'test and trace' system overseen by a Tory crony.

The full, disgraceful story of why this so-called 'NHS" Test and Trace system is actually run by private companies is covered here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-test-trace-private-sector_uk_5f6099e3c5b68d1b09c77477?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANmAitqPjCdcurN9l9CFfpwlesYDYQdQMHAcNaWB8W-JjCaJViosKFpNMcccfVgJOmuPaUt6khWq6kMz8YepA_8LfoJZamSKAskVsK090k8kOFxBaudDVyNx1JajzWGG5zjvndrhwYlN6V1im7aYuX8pE09oWVNEve7H-PLCrvAa" rel="nofollow - https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nhs-test-trace-private-sector_uk_5f6099e3c5b68d1b09c77477?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANmAitqPjCdcurN9l9CFfpwlesYDYQdQMHAcNaWB8W-JjCaJViosKFpNMcccfVgJOmuPaUt6khWq6kMz8YepA_8LfoJZamSKAskVsK090k8kOFxBaudDVyNx1JajzWGG5zjvndrhwYlN6V1im7aYuX8pE09oWVNEve7H-PLCrvAa


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 9:25am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whilst trump has clearly lost the plot here, lets face it he is absolutely furious, but he has failed to actually prove massive amounts of voter fraud in the crucial swing states so he must leave with dignity....But in the interests of balance and objectivity despite his meltdown, I do think the coverage over trump has been incredibly biased and hypocritical against him from day 1. The liberal bias is simply staggering facts bear this out.



You made some good points, but here - you have got to be joking.

Trump has told some 30,000 lies whilst in office - nearly all repeated without any challenge by his favourite outlets (until recently, anyway) such as Fox News. He made a point of using Twitter as his favoured method of communication - he didn't need the 'media'. His storm-troopers re-tweeted his lies - and so it went on.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-lies-presidency-glenn-kessler-b1782752.html

The man is a dangerous autocrat who attempted to foment a coup d'etat to keep himself in power! It is to be hoped that the Americans 'lock him up' - to recycle one of his own phrases.



Im as shocked as anyone by how he has behaved , especially in the last few weeks. I still find it hard to believe he thought such a coup was possible>? But I totally agree he has whipped up his crowd into a frenzy and the man has blood on his hands here...But For me its his handling of covid which is his ultimate failure , especially by encouraging massive crowds to his rallies...As for counting the lies, Im not sure that can be done accurately by a biased media , firstly when is a lie a lie? Much of his hyperbole is either exaggeration or selective facts and figures or over seemingly unrealistic predictions? How can one excavate all the lies from the merely exaggerated hyperbole or over optimistic predictions? Thats not to forget theres lots of lies half truths and exaggerations on all sides...Just take a look at the brexit campaign Take a look at bidens forgotten past take a look at the fact obama deported a record of over 2.5 million immigrants , the record drone strikes , brushed under the carpet.

Trumps anti globalist rhetoric made him the biggest enemies of all, the richest people in the world...How much news coverage is goven to the miniscule amounts of taxation paid by these corporations? This is starving our public services, yet it hardly makes the headlines anymore...Is it lies ? or bias? or selective news? Or is it the fact the news has been bought out by these very same corporations. Lets burn trump at the stake and Im sure all these other problems will disappear Wink



I could not agree more with you about the section in bold.

But if you can find anything Trump has done to collect more taxes from the wealthy (including corporations), then you are a better man than I am. For example:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2020/10/28/492473/6-ways-trump-administration-rigging-already-unfair-tax-code/" rel="nofollow - https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2020/10/28/492473/6-ways-trump-administration-rigging-already-unfair-tax-code/



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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 10:13am
Trying to defend Trump's 4 years in office is an impossible task. Is Washington politics corrupt - for sure; do the billionaire owned media tell lies - of course. America is not the exclusive haunt of these problems but no other leader in history has brought the institution of president into so much negative controversy - not even Bush or Clinton who gave it a good go at times. 

The man is a narcacistic buffoon who is totally unfit to have the nuclear button anywhere in reach. The sooner he goes the better for everyone. Biden has a massive task ahead in trying to cope with the pandemic crisis as well as getting the American economy going again. Longer term he will need to reverse the crippling damage done by Trump's total denial of climate change. That doesn't even mention the ongoing racial problems which have been a pandemic in American society for generations but which have been made even worse by a president who cosies up to far right groups like the proud boys who sum up where Biden really has problems as the majority of these radicals are Trump supporters and he got 72 million votes.

This topic, rather tongue in cheek, was named is America a failed state - well when you summarise the issues facing the new president you do begin to wonder. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 10:29am
Climate change is scary and you know the paradox that dirty industries are far more embedded in politics as they have to spend fortunes to try and present a cleaner image. Meaning they have far more political influence and can set the agenda, while eco-friendly remain outsiders. With the rise of super-billionaires like Gates, Musk, Bezos, Zuckerberg etc who are essentially above governments we're relying on their good will in terms of what they fund, develop or buy. Trouble with the US is it's so money-driven and their model of consumerism/capitalism (spread throughout the world, including China) isn't compatible with the issues presented by global climate change. In short, Biden has a massive challenge.


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 11:34am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1

Probably because the mob was majority (all?) white, but that's a hypothetical. It could have been a lot worse - although I read they also planted pipe bombs as well?

This was an attempted coup, there's no other way to describe it. The 25th amendment is getting a lot of hits online right now.

It was quite surprising the lack of police presence when the Trump supporters (you could call them lots of other things as well) walked on Capitol Hill following Trump’s rally.
It was in complete contrast to the police presence during the BLM protests held throughout America in recent months.
Having watched the initial march on the news on Wednesday evening I too was very surprised when I woke up the following morning to find that only 1 person had been shot dead (still 1 too much though).


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

I am amazed that they only shot 1 person. The way the building was overan with all the senators in the chamber an unknown quantitiy storming the building (has an eerie similarity with the series Designated survivor!) I thought the police would have defended with full force. Terrorism doesnt always come from outside see Oklahoma bombing so am very surprised they only shot 1

Probably because the mob was majority (all?) white, but that's a hypothetical. It could have been a lot worse - although I read they also planted pipe bombs as well?

This was an attempted coup, there's no other way to describe it. The 25th amendment is getting a lot of hits online right now.

It was quite surprising the lack of police presence when the Trump supporters (you could call them lots of other things as well) walked on Capitol Hill following Trump’s rally.
It was in complete contrast to the police presence during the BLM protests held throughout America in recent months.
Having watched the initial march on the news on Wednesday evening I too was very surprised when I woke up the following morning to find that only 1 person had been shot dead (still 1 too much though).
Unfortunately five people have now been confirmed to have died at the event. Four Trump supporters and a police officer.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I have visited America extensively for work and leisure. It is a huge country full of extremes both in nature and peoples. I would never want to live there - gun control is non existent; downtown areas of all cities I have visited are no go areas whether you are black or white; racial tensions exist in most areas but particularly in the Southern states.

I could never trust a system where the judiciary system in each state is a political decision & individuals can only run for senior political office if they have enough money. Of course I am not saying that we in Europe are without fault but I would certainly live in most European countries before I would ever choose America.

Good points and a good summary - I've been there a few times, including a 3 month working visit (poorly paid) as a student, so saw some of the issues at ground level.

I like the USA a lot in many ways, but the states are indeed like mini-countries, the judicial system is blatantly politicised, and gerrymandering has allowed the Republicans far more power than they should have based on the popular vote... Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump, but lost - for example. No president can achieve much without approval of both the senate and the house of representatives - the senate is now split 50:50 with a casting vote for Democrat vice-president Kamala Harries - but the Democrats needed 40 million votes more than the Republicans to get their 50 senators!

The system needs a serious overhaul, but will it get one?

(In passing - the UK's first past the post system also needs a serious overhaul, IMO. The Senedd method is more equitable.)
 
 
After the shambolic handling of the pandemic the Sendedd should be scrapped imo
 
You make a good point about PR when it comes to government I'd be for that
Why would you want to scrap the Senedd and transfer the power to Boris who doesn’t care less about Wales. Surely if you think a government has performed poorly the answer is to vote for a change of government and not scrap the whole institution.
who are the options? The heartless torys? The meaningless liberals? The deluded dullards of plaid? No one there id vote for tbh


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 2:36pm
Calling what happened in Washington a "coup" is a bit of a joke. You don't get people ambling around a government building wearing Buffalo hats in the real thing. One of my favourite bloggers is an Australian woman, Caitlin Johnstone, married to an American and living in a southern state of the USA. She can describe the "coup" much better than I can, and if you can drag yourselves away from mainstream propaganda for a few minutes she can be read at-
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/08/stop-trivializing-the-term-coup-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/" rel="nofollow - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/08/stop-trivializing-the-term-coup-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 4:20pm
It wasnt a coup it was a bunch of dangerous idiots who will hopefully be arrested and jailed for the rest of their natural lives... ...But trump being an idiot doesnt automatically make his opponents paragons of virtue...CNN have incited violence themselves throughout his 4 years with the most biased news coverage ever. They almost make fox look fair and balanced lol OK well I wouldnt go that far...

As for globalisation ,which to me means in simple terms massive corporations growing too big and being allowed to move their businesses across borders to avoid taxes and tariffs and paid much lower wages. The rust belt in the US was decimated over decades, much of the route 66 is ghost towns with over 60,000 factories taken overseas. Well obviously when trump targeted globalisation, he was going to get  a ton of opposition from the corporations. Especially those it would hit the most and those that have bought up huge chunks of the news media. His annual tariffs doubled from 40 to 80 billion. I noticed Obama soon cranked up tariffs on chinese steel after trump was ranting about it.

Though the main purpose of tariffs wasnt to increase money for the treasury but to pressurise american companies to stay in america. Either way he ended up with the lowest US unemployment rates in 50 years , wages above inflation, gdp growth of 2.5% and the highest stock market ever. All of which was good news for americans, for pensioners and investors. I did well ok out of it too lol

The criminal justice bitartisan bill was seen as a huge success but the majority of people

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/first-step-act-promised-widespread-reform-what-has-criminal-justice-n1079771

“I think the biggest win is that this is now a safe issue after years and years and years of the two parties trying to use criminal justice as a way to tear each other down,” said Jessica Jackson, co-founder of #cut50, a bipartisan criminal justice reform nonprofit.

However, some are skeptical the alliance can hold. Many of the next steps advocates have underscored as necessary to bring about true change, like reexamining lengthy sentences for violent offenses and restructuring policing practices, may be a tougher sell.

"As some people might say, it's easier to kind of agree on some of the low-hanging fruits, but the higher you reach, the more difficult consensus is going to be,” said Tim Head, the executive director for the Faith & Freedom Coalition, a conservative nonprofit that supports the act as well as other criminal justice reform efforts.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/first-step-act-promised-widespread-reform-what-has-criminal-justice-n1079771#anchor-WhattheFirstStepActachieved" rel="nofollow -

More than 3,000 inmates have been released and another roughly 1,700 people convicted of crack cocaine offenses have seen their sentences reduced thanks to the First Step Act, according to data from the Federal Bureau of Prisons and the U.S. Sentencing Commission. Some of that activity stems from a 2011 change made by the federal sentencing commission affecting people convicted of certain drug crimes and a provision of the First Step Act. That provision made the sentencing guidelines of the Obama-era Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 retroactive.

The majority of those released under both acts have been black men, the group which the "war on drugs" campaign of the '70s and '80s effectively targeted.

But the effects of the act's other major provision — the relaxing of the notorious "three strikes" rule to mean a 25-year sentence, rather than life in prison, for three or more convictions — are so far difficult to measure. A year in, little data has been collected around how many people had been sentenced under the new guidelines.

The act also a required the development of a new risk assessment tool that aims to determine which inmates are most likely to re-offend if released and to identify ways to assist those who are released. It was completed in July. Meanwhile, roughly 16,000 federal prisoners have enrolled in drug treatment programs created by the act, according to the Justice Department.

The north koreans havent launched a missile since 2018 and have dismantled some of their arsenal, this has also been virtually ignored by the mainstream media

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/24/north-korea-destroys-nuclear-test-site-as-worlds-media-watches

As for his wall , the US mexico border has been there about 180 yrs and is nearly 2000 miles long. His main problem wasnt the fact the borders needed protecting, but the aggressive ignorant way he spoke about it to stoke up his fanbase, though every president has built borders. In europe they have dismantled all borders but trump would argue this endangers the security of the masses and possibly enhances the threat of terrorism

The irony is that obama deported far more people than trump and all other presidents, both criminal and non criminal , but he was far more polite about it.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/08/20/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/ft_2020-08-20_immigrants_11/

More than anything its trumps handling of covid that saw him off in the end....He simply didnt treat it seriously enough and kept sending out mixed messages.....He wouldnt even wear a mask for ages...Then he allowed massive crowds at his events , no doubt many of them caught it and died. Absolute madness from the man in charge. The deaths continue to mount up to nearly 4000 a day in america and 1000 in the UK. Both nations have found the main vaccines thanks to our ingenious scientists....But our political leaders are so stupid they couldnt even lead by example


Trumps main problem seems to be his big mouth. The man says stupid ignorant things that make his life a living hell. why cant he contain himself? 

Heck maybe its easier to just join the chorus and put trump in the stalls and throw fruit at him than bother looking at the facts and the future. 



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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 5:45pm
Trump was crazy but I’d rather that than Biden and his unhealthy closeness with women and children. 


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Trump was crazy but I’d rather that than Biden and his unhealthy closeness with women and children. 
That the Trump that has 26 women who’ve made allegation of sexual misconduct against him? And also the Trump that said he’d be dating a ten year old girl in ten years’ time?


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Trump was crazy but I’d rather that than Biden and his unhealthy closeness with women and children. 
That the Trump that has 26 women who’ve made allegation of sexual misconduct against him? And also the Trump that said he’d be dating a ten year old girl in ten years’ time?

he said what? have you got a link to that?


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Trump was crazy but I’d rather that than Biden and his unhealthy closeness with women and children. 
That the Trump that has 26 women who’ve made allegation of sexual misconduct against him? And also the Trump that said he’d be dating a ten year old girl in ten years’ time?

he said what? have you got a link to that?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-girl-dating-comments-sexual-assault-claims-republican-party-a7358686.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-girl-dating-comments-sexual-assault-claims-republican-party-a7358686.html


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 09 January 2021 at 11:50pm
No one can defend these type of idiotic ignorant things he says, as I said earlier Ive no idea why he keeps coming out with these types of comments, absolutely idiotic.

The only points Im making is relating to the debates over government policy.


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 10 January 2021 at 8:53am
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55592332%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55592332

Here's an interesting piece. If true, where were the security services in monitoring these far right groups??? 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 10 January 2021 at 3:17pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/whats-the-scientific-basis-for-delaying-the-covid-vaccine-second-dose" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/whats-the-scientific-basis-for-delaying-the-covid-vaccine-second-dose

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1382097/Covid-news-vaccine-delay-jab-scientists-warning-second-dose-new-variant-mutations" rel="nofollow - https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1382097/Covid-news-vaccine-delay-jab-scientists-warning-second-dose-new-variant-mutations

scientists queueing up to say the 12 week pfizer delay is unproven and untested the damn thing may even mutate. The guardian report suggests the govt are also considering mixing and matching the 2 vaccines? so some may get a pfizer jab then 12 weeks later an oxford , this mix and match is also untested and unproven.

why cant these politicians get out of the way and simply leave it to the scientific experts



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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 8:39am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

No one can defend these type of idiotic ignorant things he says, as I said earlier Ive no idea why he keeps coming out with these types of comments, absolutely idiotic.

The only points Im making is relating to the debates over government policy.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Trump got everything wrong are they Roy? However surely there are standards of behaviour you can expect from your president. Stoking up resentment, continually lying about the election results & denying responsibility for outrageous comments - these to me are just some of the events that make him totally unfit for office.

Look it didn't take a genius to work out that you could drastically reduce unemployment & thereby boost your ratings by ignoring climate change & open up previously closed fossil fuel businesses. It also didn't need Einstein style intellect that placing embargoes on Chinese goods entering the USA and calling for buy American would play well with the American people. Does that make America great again? I think not. Has America ever been great - I think not but Trump has made America more divided, introduced more racial tension and reduced the office of president to its lowest ever standing throughout the world - not bad for 4 years. 

Time for Donald to ride off into history with his new best mates - the KKK, the Proud Boys and Latinos for Trump.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 11:01am
It seems that some of these insurgents at capitol hill were BLM members ? The plot thickens 
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/" rel="nofollow - https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 11:11am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

It seems that some of these insurgents at capitol hill were BLM members ? The plot thickens 
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/" rel="nofollow - https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/
All that shows is that one out of thirty thousand there was a person with left wing political beliefs who went there to film and record what was happening. Hardly wise of him to go into the building but not a major story either.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

It seems that some of these insurgents at capitol hill were BLM members ? The plot thickens 
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/" rel="nofollow - https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/09/facebook-posts/facebook-posts-wrongly-claim-left-wing-activist-an/
All that shows is that one out of thirty thousand there was a person with left wing political beliefs who went there to film and record what was happening. Hardly wise of him to go into the building but not a major story either.
it is a major story this man was inside capital hill, duly ignored by the liberal media and there was no where near 30,000 people inside the building. Dont get me wrong now the president is responsible for inciting these muppets and needs to go asap, as does guiliani who also incited this... all Im saying is the coverage needs to be impartial less biased and relay all the facts not just select ones


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 3:55pm
The large crowd that rioted in and around the Capital building were mainly persuaded to turn up because they had been convinced that the election had been stolen from them by vote rigging and other forms of cheating. At first I had great difficulty in believing this, especially after the BBC announced that Trump, had been pressurising Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger to give him just enough votes to overturn the Democrat majority. However they also said that the conversation took an hour, which seemed odd just to tell the man to give the Republicans the 11,870 extra votes they needed. I saw that there was in fact a transcript of the conversation on the web, and had a look at it. In that time Trump makes several accusations of irregularities, like thousands of his supporters turning up to vote and being told that they could not vote, because they had already voted which was news to them. Also he claims many thousands of dead people had "voted" and that many out of state voters were allowed to vote, and that there were many other forms of cheating going on in Georgia and other states. Typically the BBC and most other mainstream organs only quoted the one-liner that made Trump look as low as possible. Now I'm not sure who to believe but I'm sure that all those involved in the protest march which turned into a *coup* believed that their leader had been robbed of another term, or they wouldn't have bothered.
What is curious is that the media never seemed to want to ask them why they thought the election had been stolen from them, and then tried to investigate whether there was any truth in their accusations. Could it be that they were afraid that they would find some truth in it, and that another glorious illusion of the "exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill" would hit the dust ie fair elections.
If you would like to see the whole transcript try-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109665/Transcript-Trumps-call-pressuring-Brad-Raffensperger-change-Georgias-election-results.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109665/Transcript-Trumps-call-pressuring-Brad-Raffensperger-change-Georgias-election-results.html


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

The large crowd that rioted in and around the Capital building were mainly persuaded to turn up because they had been convinced that the election had been stolen from them by vote rigging and other forms of cheating. At first I had great difficulty in believing this, especially after the BBC announced that Trump, had been pressurising Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger to give him just enough votes to overturn the Democrat majority. However they also said that the conversation took an hour, which seemed odd just to tell the man to give the Republicans the 11,870 extra votes they needed. I saw that there was in fact a transcript of the conversation on the web, and had a look at it. In that time Trump makes several accusations of irregularities, like thousands of his supporters turning up to vote and being told that they could not vote, because they had already voted which was news to them. Also he claims many thousands of dead people had "voted" and that many out of state voters were allowed to vote, and that there were many other forms of cheating going on in Georgia and other states. Typically the BBC and most other mainstream organs only quoted the one-liner that made Trump look as low as possible. Now I'm not sure who to believe but I'm sure that all those involved in the protest march which turned into a *coup* believed that their leader had been robbed of another term, or they wouldn't have bothered.
What is curious is that the media never seemed to want to ask them why they thought the election had been stolen from them, and then tried to investigate whether there was any truth in their accusations. Could it be that they were afraid that they would find some truth in it, and that another glorious illusion of the "exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill" would hit the dust ie fair elections.
If you would like to see the whole transcript try-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109665/Transcript-Trumps-call-pressuring-Brad-Raffensperger-change-Georgias-election-results.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109665/Transcript-Trumps-call-pressuring-Brad-Raffensperger-change-Georgias-election-results.html

The allegations made by Trump have been discredited in several Courts in the USA. As in any other law suit, the onus is on those making allegations to prove their point, and Trump and his lawyers have failed to do this. 

Don't forget also, that Trump's allegations relate only to the States that he lost. These States were previously held by the Republicans. Looking at it that way, it would seem that Republicans have themselves have turned against Trump. Don't forget, that Brad Raffensperger is a Republican. I therefore fail to see where the Democrats come in to Trump's allegations in Georgia ? 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 4:30pm
Some of Trump's supporters also believe that he is fighting a coven of paedophiles who are pat of the 'dep state'. Trump also initiated the 'birther' movement alleging that Obama was not born in the USA.

Obama eventually produced his birth certificate to disprove Trump's allegations. With the evidence before him in black and white, I don't think Trump ever fell on his sword on that one. If asked i suspect he'd claim that Obama's birth certificate was a forgery.

Trump has form for making wild allegations, he said that more people attended his Inauguration than attended Obama's. The live pictures disproved that.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 4:38pm
Trump is a liar who is conceited enough that he starts to believe his lies. If there were some irregularities in the voting system which involved 150+ million people I would not be surprised. Were all the irregularities against Trump - no way; would he have won anyway - not a chance. Anyone dull enough to believe that his election was stolen has my abiding sympathy. 

The World will be a better place without Trump; I resist saying safer because I am afraid most American presidents think its their God given right to change governments/regimes that they disagree with. Perhaps the shame of what has happened recently may make future leaders more reluctant to throw their weight around but I won't be holding my breath. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 11 January 2021 at 5:40pm
You can't argue with conspiracy theorists. They have a pre-determined theory and any evidence that counters it they dismiss as being fake or wrong. The focus should be on proving your own theory to be correct yet they present negligible evidence themselves rarely from reliable sources, solely relying on claims someone else is "covering up the truth", usually for vague implausible reasons, if any.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 8:42am
I don't know if anyone saw the programme last night about the storming of the whitehouse?it was scary how the police just seemed to let it go in some cases and even assist in others,there are some dangerous lunatics in america and i don't envy biden on trying to bring that country together.


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 2:38pm
I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .

Didn't see the programme, but it was preceded by a fairly lengthy piece on the ITV 10 o'clock news. Police Chief lied when he said that they had no intelligence regarding the 'assault'. He said his officers were overwhelmed which may not have happened had they listened to the intelligence.

The big concern now is the Inauguration. Biden has aid that he is happy for it to go ahead in the open air. For security reasons, perhaps it should go ahead indoors at the WH or Capitol Building.

Trump did say yesterday that he wanted no violence, but unhelpfully then went on to say that what he said last Wednesday was 'appropriate', and that many agreed with what he said. 

Again HE is lying and posting fake news.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .

Didn't see the programme, but it was preceded by a fairly lengthy piece on the ITV 10 o'clock news. Police Chief lied when he said that they had no intelligence regarding the 'assault'. He said his officers were overwhelmed which may not have happened had they listened to the intelligence.

The big concern now is the Inauguration. Biden has aid that he is happy for it to go ahead in the open air. For security reasons, perhaps it should go ahead indoors at the WH or Capitol Building.

Trump did say yesterday that he wanted no violence, but unhelpfully then went on to say that what he said last Wednesday was 'appropriate', and that many agreed with what he said. 

Again HE is lying and posting fake news.

I am extremely surprised that the FBI have not arrested Rudy Guliani whose comments are indefensible - he actually called for violence for goodness sake. Apparently the jail term for inciting violence is 20 years - that should keep both Trump & Rudy suitably occupied for a while. 



Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 3:15pm
it's worth watching .


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .
 
I'm not one for conspiracy theorys but you have to admit  they didn't half make it easy for trumps lot to get access to what should have been a highly protected building
 
Now depending on your mid set It's either a total failure in planning and intelligence . Or a  cynical ploy to let them run amok and then have a field day slating them in the media and dis credit them and further discredit trump as a politician.
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

I didn't see the programme but I've certainly seen a lot of comments stating that the building was very lightly protected compared to that which was there for the BLM march, and this in spite of the internet being awash with threats of "something big" about to happen in response to what they claim was a "stolen election" .
 
I'm not one for conspiracy theorys but you have to admit  they didn't half make it easy for trumps lot to get access to what should have been a highly protected building
 
Now depending on your mid set It's either a total failure in planning and intelligence . Or a  cynical ploy to let them run amok and then have a field day slating them in the media and dis credit them and further discredit trump as a politician.
 
 
 
 
 

With 5 deaths, one a police officer, I wouldn't want to be the guy who ignored intelligence.


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 4:00pm
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nj-rep-sherrill-lawmakers-held-reconnaissance-tours-day-before-pro-trump-rioters-attacked/2828098/%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nj-rep-sherrill-lawmakers-held-reconnaissance-tours-day-before-pro-trump-rioters-attacked/2828098/

How worrying is this, if true ?????


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nj-rep-sherrill-lawmakers-held-reconnaissance-tours-day-before-pro-trump-rioters-attacked/2828098/%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nj-rep-sherrill-lawmakers-held-reconnaissance-tours-day-before-pro-trump-rioters-attacked/2828098/

How worrying is this, if true ?????

And if true, it may explain why the police did not put up much resistance, after all they'd seen some of them the day before and their behaviour was impeccable !


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 4:43pm
When you see how heavily armed and pumped up some of the rioters were it's a miracle only 5 died.


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 5:03pm
It's looking more and more as if the powers that be were happy to allow the invasion of the Capitol building to happen so that they could discredit and silence Trump on the web. After all they had no trouble clearing out the protesters and normal services were resumed in a few hours. If they were hoping that this would discredit Trump so much that he would lose the support of his fanatical followers they may need to think again as one new poll seems to have shown his support rising from 47% to 49%


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 13 January 2021 at 6:46pm
Saw the programme and noted the selective and different application of crowd control methods.

Implication is they were encouraged by the absence of enough law and order folk.


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 14 January 2021 at 2:52pm
Imo CNN have incited a violence themselves.. Trump is a megalomianiac but its his anti globalist agenda thats made him billionaire enemies , many of whom influence or even own the news.

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 14 January 2021 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Imo CNN have incited a tonne more violence than Trump ever did. Hes anti globalist so he clearly has a lot of billionaire enemies , many of whom influence or even own the news.

Roy I have always found far more to agree with in your posts than disagree but this continuing love fest with Trump needs to stopWink. The man is a narcassistic megolamaniac & needs to disappear to his luxury Mar a Lago pad sharpish. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 14 January 2021 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Imo CNN have incited a tonne more violence than Trump ever did. Hes anti globalist so he clearly has a lot of billionaire enemies , many of whom influence or even own the news.

Roy I have always found far more to agree with in your posts than disagree but this continuing love fest with Trump needs to stopWink. The man is a narcassistic megolamaniac & needs to disappear to his luxury Mar a Lago pad sharpish. 

On Trump, you and I are on exactly the same page... indeed as he is someone who fomented an insurrection against his own country's government, I do wonder what the Americans think lampposts are really for?Wink


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 14 January 2021 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Imo CNN have incited a tonne more violence than Trump ever did. Hes anti globalist so he clearly has a lot of billionaire enemies , many of whom influence or even own the news.

Roy I have always found far more to agree with in your posts than disagree but this continuing love fest with Trump needs to stopWink. The man is a narcassistic megolamaniac & needs to disappear to his luxury Mar a Lago pad sharpish. 

Lol I assure you theres no love for trump here I agree hes a narcisstic loon that will be gone in a week, his handling of covid has been a disgrace and many of his radical fans are deranged dangerous loons too... But even saying all that it doesnt mean hes wrong about everything and is also doesnt mean his opponents are necessarily any better. The bias in the media has been astounding. as for impeachment funny how pelosi didnt bother voting for the bush impeachment for the iraq war and his other disastrous foreign policies?




-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 21 January 2021 at 5:14pm
For those suffering badly from the BBC's vomit inducing coverage of the Biden inauguration, fear not, there are already some antibody producing vaccines on the way (although obviously not in the mainstream media).
Here are a couple that I've noticed -


https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/" rel="nofollow - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/

https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/%5b" rel="nofollow - https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/[ URL= ][/URL]


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 21 January 2021 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

For those suffering badly from the BBC's vomit inducing coverage of the Biden inauguration, fear not, there are already some antibody producing vaccines on the way (although obviously not in the mainstream media).
Here are a couple that I've noticed -


https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/" rel="nofollow - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/

https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/%5b" rel="nofollow - https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/[ URL= ][/URL]
if it induced you to vomit why did you watch it,dog poo makes me vomit so i try to avoid it.


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 10:41am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

For those suffering badly from the BBC's vomit inducing coverage of the Biden inauguration, fear not, there are already some antibody producing vaccines on the way (although obviously not in the mainstream media).
Here are a couple that I've noticed -


https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/" rel="nofollow - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/

https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/%5b" rel="nofollow - https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/[ URL= ][/URL]

if it induced you to vomit why did you watch it,dog poo makes me vomit so i try to avoid it.


Sorry to learn about your traumatic experiences with dog-poo, but understanding how it's produced and where you are likely to find it could possibly help you and those you care for to avoid such experiences in future. Keep safe and watch your step!!


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 10:59am
You also realise that vaccines usually resemble the aggravating disease? 

I notice one of your blog links has "ghastly future israeli aparteid biden starmer assange mass extinction" in its title and the other is telling me my sigh of relief is delusional, in the now familiar condescending language of the far left. I think I'll pass, thanks. 

And I agree that the coverage of Biden's inauguration by the BBC and Guardian was completely over the top. I seriously wonder why we have so many stories on the US. Possibly they attempted to create a good news story to hide what was our worst coronavirus deaths day.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

For those suffering badly from the BBC's vomit inducing coverage of the Biden inauguration, fear not, there are already some antibody producing vaccines on the way (although obviously not in the mainstream media).
Here are a couple that I've noticed -


https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/" rel="nofollow - https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2021/01/20/your-sigh-of-relief-is-grounded-in-delusion-notes-from-the-edge-of-the-narrative-matrix/

https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/%5b" rel="nofollow - https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-ghastly-future-israeli-apartheid-biden-starmer-assange-and-mass-extinction/[ URL= ][/URL]

if it induced you to vomit why did you watch it,dog poo makes me vomit so i try to avoid it.


Sorry to learn about your traumatic experiences with dog-poo, but understanding how it's produced and where you are likely to find it could possibly help you and those you care for to avoid such experiences in future. Keep safe and watch your step!!
thanks,i see what you done there .LOLWink


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 2:43pm
doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.

It's generalising not condescending but point taken. A previous poster on here named Ffidel Bennett called me brainwashed at one point for mentioning something they disagreed with, for example. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 5:57pm
Whats your opinion on the escalating numbers of drone strikes by the US but but UK Israel UAE and a few other nations having started buying them too...Are they legal/moral?

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.


It's generalising not condescending but point taken. A previous poster on here named Ffidel Bennett called me brainwashed at one point for mentioning something they disagreed with, for example. 


And what was that topic about- did he present an argument against what you were saying, or did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way?


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whats your opinion on the escalating numbers of drone strikes by the US but but UK Israel UAE and a few other nations having started buying them too...Are they legal/moral?


You only have to ask how those countries would react if they were used against their homelands. I suspect that killing people with drones is very much against international law although the "top dogs" get away with it basically because so much of the billionaire world media, backs them, and most of their own populations either don't know what they're doing or don't care.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:04am
Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.


It's generalising not condescending but point taken. A previous poster on here named Ffidel Bennett called me brainwashed at one point for mentioning something they disagreed with, for example. 


And what was that topic about- did he present an argument against what you were saying, or did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way?

I acknowledge my generalisation was unfair and I realise you can find evidence of condescending views/opinions across the political spectrum. So I repeat: point taken.

You say "did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way". I object to that, I never dismissed the point you were making nor labelled you in an insulting way. I simply said I did not wish to read a link to a blog you posted because I found the title to be condescending. The other one came across as extreme and implied offensive content. Unless you wrote the article, I fail to see how you have taken personal offence.

You also generalise all the time about "billionaire backed mainstream media" and the US by the way. I think we should probably just accept we all do it and have our own tribal prejudices, following whatever media sources we like and trust, be that paper, blog, person etc. Part of their modus operandi to retain readers is naturally going to be to discredit other sources. Maybe Ffidell was right, I am a bit brainwashed. But if I am, so is he.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 9:57am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country
not if your taking a pre emptive strike to protect your own nation and it’s people


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:18am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country
not if your taking a pre emptive strike to protect your own nation and it’s people

RR I'd love to know how many of those 583 drone strikes had any impact on the folks living in Florida!!!! I am afraid trying to justify those actions should be confined to reality - my stock of weapons is bigger than yours - you will do as I say. That type of behaviour is called bullying in the school playgrounds and in my experience doesn't usually end up well for the person/nation doing the bullying. 

God forbid that future American presidents don't end up paying the price when another catastrophe like the twin towers occurs. You tend to reap what you sow in this life.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:28am
Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:32am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them

Ah but 9/11 was an inside job of course....


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them

I take your point RR but where does this endless merry go round end? It will only really end at the negotiating table. Who of us Western apparently civilised people can fail to have any sympathy for the causes of Middle Eastern people who only see America as murderers who are intent on having everything their own way.

Why should Iran not have access to nuclear capability when their sworn enemies over decades have them? When is the so called civilised Western World going to realise that the age of colonialism is over.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 11:11am
All above my pay grade mate. The west need to realise our idea  of democracy doesn’t work for everyone so leave them do their own thing. As long as they not committing genocide or harbouring people who plan to harm us


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:05pm
The USA has over 800 foreign military bases scattered all over the globe (including Guantanamo in Cuba where leaks have shown that it uses torture on prisoners). Why would a country that is only interested in self defence need all these? The truth is that they are there to maintain the dominant position of the dollar and the unrestrained economic and financial exploitation of countries it regards as inferior. Woe betide anyone that steps out of line. Then a series of measures begin to be imposed, starting with a propaganda assault, followed by sanctions, coups and if still resisting all out military attack, usually justified by media lies like weapons of mass destruction or genocide eg Iraq, Libya -two rich, uncooperative, oil producing countries now totally destroyed.
At one time they used to say-
The business of America is Business.
Now more apt would be -
The business of America is War


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:08pm
I’m not a huge fan of usa foreign policy or china’s tbh, both in it for themselves


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

The USA has over 800 foreign military bases scattered all over the globe (including Guantanamo in Cuba where leaks have shown that it uses torture on prisoners). Why would a country that is only interested in self defence need all these? The truth is that they are there to maintain the dominant position of the dollar and the unrestrained economic and financial exploitation of countries it regards as inferior. Woe betide anyone that steps out of line. Then a series of measures begin to be imposed, starting with a propaganda assault, followed by sanctions, coups and if still resisting all out military attack, usually justified by media lies like weapons of mass destruction or genocide eg Iraq, Libya -two rich, uncooperative, oil producing countries now totally destroyed.
At one time they used to say-
The business of America is Business.
Now more apt would be -
The business of America is War

Cannot really argue with those FACTS or your sentiments in all honesty Dai. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 1:03pm
Likewise. I think if the us wasn't doing it, another superpower in Russia or China would be. Bullies rule the world and probably always have done and will. Smaller nations like the UK, France and Germany have to pick a side or try and form some alliance to compete. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 1:06pm
What's that saying, if you seek peace prepare for war?


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

What's that saying, if you seek peace prepare for war?

And that's certainly what the USA has done and promises to keep on doing- spending huge amounts on expensive armaments so they can attack from the safety of their own bunkers as if playing a computer game. However, talking about failed states, how many of those attacked are now functioning societies with a decent standard of living? This isn't something that the US govt really cares about, once the impudence of the resisting government has been removed and replaced with puppets -they don't believe in social, educational or economic improvement - they can live in squalor so long as they don't resist.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 3:05pm
The yanks can spend what they like on defence, not our bother. Where they and the west in general fall down is a) thinking every nation wants and needd democracy like us b ) having no long term plan for aiding nations once they have helped over throw a regime.  I cry no tears for saddam or gadaffi but both those countries are worse not better now they are no longer in power there.  Drone strikes dont bother me if they taken out terrorsits. Invasions and regime changes a different matter


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

The yanks can spend what they like on defence, not our bother. Where they and the west in general fall down is a) thinking every nation wants and needd democracy like us b ) having no long term plan for aiding nations once they have helped over throw a regime.  I cry no tears for saddam or gadaffi but both those countries are worse not better now they are no longer in power there.  Drone strikes dont bother me if they taken out terrorsits. Invasions and regime changes a different matter

Yes RR but taking out terrorists only is very rarely achieved. Sitting in some air conditioned control room somewhere in Texas ordering satelite controlled drone strikes in Iraq usually results in collateral damage which nobody ever reports. Lets change the personnel a little - someone sitting in Havana calling up drone strikes on the Pentagon or White House would be quite rightly called a terrorist and guilty of war crimes. What is the difference? 

One final point - whose word do we have that any target is actually a terrorist - oops fraid so the very same organisation ordering the strike. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 23 January 2021 at 7:21pm
If more countries continue buying up more and more drones , all making the excuse theyre doing it for their own self defence in order to leapfrog all legal restraints , where will all this end? 

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)



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