Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


PRO14 & CVC

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 8>
Author
Message
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:12pm
CVC can't force anything as far as I can see, they can present options to the respective leagues showing then what option A or option B would give them commercially but that doesn't mean that they'd all go for it, although logically if the numbers are big enough they'll go for it.

My preference would be a 2 B&I leagues of 12 teams with 3 up and 3 down every season (10 Celtic pro14 teams and 14 English teams) with the South African teams dropping out and the Italians joining the French second division although there'd be a lot of hoops to jump through to get that.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26891
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:



My preference would be a 2 B&I leagues of 12 teams with 3 up and 3 down every season (10 Celtic pro14 teams and 14 English teams)


There are only 13 teams in the PRL English collective I think. So it might take some work.

I'm not sure straight relegation would work either, the top division may become very English and Irish heavy. A Play off structure would be better.
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:22pm
It's a personal preference but I'm not a fan of play offs, with the potential strength of the 2 leagues from the start I'd hope that both leagues would generate a lot of interest.

Finding a 14th English team would probably be one of the smaller hurdles to get over in it all!

Edited by Gate12 - 22 May 2020 at 2:23pm
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26891
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:



Finding a 14th English team would probably be one of the smaller hurdles to get over in it all!


Not really. Because that 14th team will have nothing to do with CVC, nothing to do with PRL, nothing to do with salary caps, voting rights, income sharing, competition ownership etc.
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:33pm
Those sort of issues didn't stop Italy and South Africa joining the Celtic League.

Between aligning 2 leagues, excluding 4 teams in one of those existing comps, agreeing on the top and second tier and promotion and relegation adding a 14th team to a 13 team agreement wouldn't be insurmountable.
Back to Top
pillory View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 17 September 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pillory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:42pm
If Pro 14 has successfully deployed conferences/divisions, why would a combined B&I league need to employ promotion and relegation?

Let the English teams put a couple of their own up or down, yes? But the rest of our regions are locked-in.

There are too many good sides to be in a "second" division, I think. There'd be ructions.

Isn't a conference system more likely? They could just pick up Martin Anayi's template and go to four B&I conferences, with an annual event to draw next season's composition and end of season play-offs from each to anoint the tournament winner?
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 2:59pm
Completely get the point regarding ease of setting it up, the quality of the second division and play off being popular amongst some but that's just what my preference is.

I like a league winner to be the winner and the threat of relegation adds a lot, again just a personal preference.
Back to Top
Tim Opolis View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2008
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

CVC can't force anything as far as I can see, they can present options to the respective leagues showing then what option A or option B would give them commercially but that doesn't mean that they'd all go for it, although logically if the numbers are big enough they'll go for it.

My preference would be a 2 B&I leagues of 12 teams with 3 up and 3 down every season (10 Celtic pro14 teams and 14 English teams) with the South African teams dropping out and the Italians joining the French second division although there'd be a lot of hoops to jump through to get that.

I can see the logic of the South Africans dropping out at the end of their deals 'If' a B&I Leauge was to happen. If the English wanted a new League then you'd think that would have been communicated by now and the unwanted party in that scenario would be the Italians. But why after 10 years do the Celts now include them onto Celtic Rugby DAC and they get a share of this investment? Surely you'd dump them now and crack on with the English?

Or are they getting a sweetner for their contribution to the League for the last 10 years and then after the current TV deals expire ta ta SA and Ita? That would be harsh on the Italians. Unless of course they wanted to play in the French Leagues as you suggest.

I can see a road map to it now. Thanks Neil.

Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
Back to Top
Legendinmybathroom View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 29 May 2017
Location: Burry Port
Status: Offline
Points: 1299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 4:00pm
I too believe that this makes a B&I league more likely than previously thought.  CVC have a controlling stake in the English Premiership (as part of their massive investment) and as such will have a much bigger say in what happens within or to the league.  
They have mentioned the aligning of the leagues and this is just the first part of the jigsaw as far as I can see, however I may be wrong.
The only sticking points are the inclusion of the SA and Italian teams in the current pro14 setup, and whether the current Pro14 organisers have the will to deal with that issue, and the Irish willingness to relinquish the control they have over the Pro14 to become part of a bigger league where a lot of the opposition will have bigger budgets and probably as much or even more say on the way the league is run etc.  They will be giving a lot more up than the Welsh and Scottish teams ( although we all know that shouldn’t be the case).
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 43336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 4:27pm
Good to see it confirmed.

Been on the table long enough for it to be losing it's attraction ( to CVC) with the game impacted by Covid.

My first thought is that I hope it eases the perpetual burden on our magnificent benefactors ( and they can enjoy running a region rather than just propping it up), then it's a B&I league consideration, and finally getting Ponty to be elevated to region status, in fact that last one jumps ahead of the other 2 mwsh.
Back to Top
Tim Opolis View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2008
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 4:59pm
Yeah putting the B&I issue aside for a moment and bearing in mind the latest crisis, this without doubt has secured the fate of the Welsh regions (or club as the Ospreys now call themsleves) for the forseeable future. Hugely important day in the history of Pro Rugby in Wales. Time for a beer. Beer 
Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12332
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 6:01pm
B and i lge sounds great but aren’t the italians now noted as shareholders in the pro 14 now?
Back to Top
Tim Opolis View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2008
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 6:03pm
Simon Thomas on Twitter ramming home a point that how much of the CVC money that goes to the regions is down to the WRU. Speculating that some of that may go to plug the hole that Covid makes in the coffers. Well I suppose its better that the WRU had the CVC money than not. We'd be struggling otherwise. I think the Irish are staggering the payments over 3 years.
 
I'm sure the Ospreys take over would have been based on future growth and revenue rather than the imminent CVC investment, which they might not necessarily get in one lumpsum.   
Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
Back to Top
Tim Opolis View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2008
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 6:26pm

Wales Online suggesting that Wales will receive their £30m over 5 years.
Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
Back to Top
Mogwen View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 07 April 2013
Location: Yma o Hyd
Status: Offline
Points: 3515
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 7:46pm
Why not just have all the teams in one league? Plsy teams home one year, away the next? It works in the 6nations. It will keep everyone happy.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Back to Top
Rich (Bris) View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 23 August 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1471
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 9:02am
I wonder what 'shared equally among the four unions' in the quote below actually means and if that is the wording the unions themselves are using.

I am not totally convinced the Irish and Welsh unions would feel that at it would be fair for them to receive the same amount of money for their four professional teams in the league compared to the Scots and (especially) the Italians with their 2 each. So is shared equally actually related to the number of professional teams you have in the league?

So looking below is it possible that while the Irish are getting 30 million as their man says, that the Scots and Italians are getting less?

WOL says:
'WalesOnline understands CVC's investment is in the region of £120 million.

That money is divided up equally among the stakeholder Unions.

Earlier today, IRFU chief executive Philip Browne was quoted as saying they will receive 'around £30 million' in the deal, which adds up when you consider there are four stakeholders - the Welsh, Irish, Scottish and Italian Unions.'
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 8>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.