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PRO14 & CVC

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Mr Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 9:13am
Cvc is a private business society and surely they are more interested in profit then development of rugby. If in a point of view they are more contractual strenght for tv rights or sponsorhisp. In an other point of view unions have to interface with a business society, who could change something in pro14 or 6N or premiership organization..
For italian rugby this is a good money income, but at the last time this is the last occasion for trying to reduce the gap with others, 2024 remains our last date, South Africa or japan are ready to sub italy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

B and i lge sounds great but aren’t the italians now noted as shareholders in the pro 14 now?

Well they begin with I dont they.....Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 5:16pm
Up until the CVC investment, the pro 14 was owned by the three Celtic unions. Now CVC are also an owner, at a proportion which means that they only need one Celtic union to agree with them to force an issue through. The Italians are not mentioned as owners at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 5:38pm
Joint shareholders
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Up until the CVC investment, the pro 14 was owned by the three Celtic unions. Now CVC are also an owner, at a proportion which means that they only need one Celtic union to agree with them to force an issue through. The Italians are not mentioned as owners at all.


Interesting point John though I suspect (& hope) that for big decisions it needs more than a simple majority
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2020 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Up until the CVC investment, the pro 14 was owned by the three Celtic unions. Now CVC are also an owner, at a proportion which means that they only need one Celtic union to agree with them to force an issue through. The Italians are not mentioned as owners at all.
The Italians are shareholders but at what proportion I don’t know. I’d guess that for a majority to force things through it will require the agreement of three of the five shareholders. 
Another question is who now selects the broadcasting agreements? I can’t imagine that CVC would agree to part with so much money without some kind of reassurance that the Unions won’t go for a lower bid e.g. a FTA deal.


Edited by Jones2004 - 23 May 2020 at 6:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Good to see it confirmed.

Been on the table long enough for it to be losing it's attraction ( to CVC) with the game impacted by Covid.

My first thought is that I hope it eases the perpetual burden on our magnificent benefactors ( and they can enjoy running a region rather than just propping it up), then it's a B&I league consideration, and finally getting Ponty to be elevated to region status, in fact that last one jumps ahead of the other 2 mwsh.

I don't think adding the financial burden of a 5th region makes sense. Plus after the jacks, I have a dislike for Ponty (mainly their fans). But that's just me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 5:47pm
That was tongue in cheek.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stradeyscarlet72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 6:50pm
Look at Owen robbins on Twitter.  He slates the scarlets at every opportunity. Can’t or won’t accept the regions as they are. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by stradeyscarlet72 stradeyscarlet72 wrote:

Look at Owen robbins on Twitter.  He slates the scarlets at every opportunity. Can’t or won’t accept the regions as they are. 

Are you on about this guy?

He's a Ponty fan with a twitter account, with a 1,500 following. Why on earth would you consider him of importance? Is he perhaps aligned with the Western Mail or BBC?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stradeyscarlet72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2020 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by stradeyscarlet72 stradeyscarlet72 wrote:

Look at Owen robbins on Twitter.  He slates the scarlets at every opportunity. Can’t or won’t accept the regions as they are. 

Are you on about this guy?

He's a Ponty fan with a twitter account, with a 1,500 following. Why on earth would you consider him of importance? Is he perhaps aligned with the Western Mail or BBC?

lol 😂😂.  He’s a fool - It’s his dap that spoils welsh rugby . 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scarlet Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 10:05am
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by stradeyscarlet72 stradeyscarlet72 wrote:

Look at Owen robbins on Twitter.  He slates the scarlets at every opportunity. Can’t or won’t accept the regions as they are. 

Are you on about this guy?

He's a Ponty fan with a twitter account, with a 1,500 following. Why on earth would you consider him of importance? Is he perhaps aligned with the Western Mail or BBC?

Wouldn’t be bothered with Twitter comments from rival fans. Not many pundits I listen to either. His comments are just nepotism.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

Up until the CVC investment, the pro 14 was owned by the three Celtic unions. Now CVC are also an owner, at a proportion which means that they only need one Celtic union to agree with them to force an issue through. The Italians are not mentioned as owners at all.


Interesting point John though I suspect (& hope) that for big decisions it needs more than a simple majority

Basically CVC have total control over future TV negotiations (not sure about title sponsors) in return for 28% of future TV revenues. The P14 board retains control of all rugby matters, so tournament rules, admin etc.

What this means in practice is CVC are in control of the destiny of the P14 for a long time. We all know that the clubs/unions are pretty much dictated to by TV companies once they accept the cash. CVC will now control that relationship in effect.

It also means 3 things:
  • We immediately lose 28% of the competition income from the P14 TV deals (I say immediately but whenever this kicks in)
  • CVC must believe that 28% of future revenues will provide a decent return on their £130m investment
  • The P14 unions must believe that 72% of future revenues will lead to significantly more income than they get right now, else why sign away control?
CVC aren't exactly vultures, but they won't be in this for sentimental reasons. They will want to make a lot of money, which means substantial increases in TV rights. They will want an exit strategy to be available to them, so that means being able to "sell on" the competition for a lot more than £130m

This isn't risk free, but we have some serious people in charge of raising revenue now

I see this leading to a merger of sorts with the English league, and quite possibly a bigger SA involvement too, as Super Rugby is dying on it's arse. Time zones mean SA fits better with us and Japan fits better with Oz/NZ


Edited by Wasp - 25 May 2020 at 10:20am
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 6:03pm
They would have or have seen that like nearly every rugby fan that Rugby is a sport that has been criminally under marketed since it went pro. CVC are great at putting blocks in place to get the best out of their projects. They aren't in this for the short term. They have a long term plan (which is highly likely to be some sort of World Club Championship).

Think back to the TV deals we had from BBC etc. What were they £150K a year or whatever. CVC will get things ticking to MAXIMISE deals. That is what they are very good at. They've done well with F1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2020 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

They would have or have seen that like nearly every rugby fan that Rugby is a sport that has been criminally under marketed since it went pro. CVC are great at putting blocks in place to get the best out of their projects. They aren't in this for the short term. They have a long term plan (which is highly likely to be some sort of World Club Championship).

Think back to the TV deals we had from BBC etc. What were they £150K a year or whatever. CVC will get things ticking to MAXIMISE deals. That is what they are very good at. They've done well with F1. 
Commercially they’ve done well with F1 but with nearly everything else they didn’t and were hated for it. One team principal even went as far as saying they had ‘raped’ the sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

Up until the CVC investment, the pro 14 was owned by the three Celtic unions. Now CVC are also an owner, at a proportion which means that they only need one Celtic union to agree with them to force an issue through. The Italians are not mentioned as owners at all.


Interesting point John though I suspect (& hope) that for big decisions it needs more than a simple majority


Basically CVC have total control over future TV negotiations (not sure about title sponsors) in return for 28% of future TV revenues. The P14 board retains control of all rugby matters, so tournament rules, admin etc.

What this means in practice is CVC are in control of the destiny of the P14 for a long time. We all know that the clubs/unions are pretty much dictated to by TV companies once they accept the cash. CVC will now control that relationship in effect.

It also means 3 things:
  • We immediately lose 28% of the competition income from the P14 TV deals (I say immediately but whenever this kicks in)
  • CVC must believe that 28% of future revenues will provide a decent return on their £130m investment
  • The P14 unions must believe that 72% of future revenues will lead to significantly more income than they get right now, else why sign away control?
CVC aren't exactly vultures, but they won't be in this for sentimental reasons. They will want to make a lot of money, which means substantial increases in TV rights. They will want an exit strategy to be available to them, so that means being able to "sell on" the competition for a lot more than £130m

This isn't risk free, but we have some serious people in charge of raising revenue now

I see this leading to a merger of sorts with the English league, and quite possibly a bigger SA involvement too, as Super Rugby is dying on it's arse. Time zones mean SA fits better with us and Japan fits better with Oz/NZ



Excellent post that.
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