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Project Reset Q&A evening with Nigel Short

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ap sior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

I can't make it maybe someone can ask about this

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/radical-plan-ospreys-scarlets-dragons-15676696.amp

I don't believe a word so if it is nonsense then maybe the wru and 4 regions should boycott the Fail for any interviews/articles.


All of their negative press can't be helping the situation

There isn't a cat in hell's chance that the directors of Cardiff or Scarlets would accept merging with their rivals. The Dragons won't get a say in the matter and I'm not entirely sure that the Ospreys directors have any long term plans, so perhaps it would be a dignified exit for them.

Getting AWJ and Beard would solve our second row problem !!!! I'd have Scott too and Tipuric. Not sure about anyone else !!!!!

Well let me rephrase that. If the merged team were to play in Scarlet and be based in Llanelli, we might get some movement. 

I think they'd have to. O's don't own their ground, and currently there's a dispute as to who is responsible for the maintenance of the stadium which has a problem with rust.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Project Reset was welcomed with a huge fanfare and promises of more money for the regions. It has fallen a little flat on its face in my opinion because it has failed to gain widespread agreement, failed to deliver serious increases in playing budget & delayed the procurement of talent so needed by each region. 

All this while across the border the Premiership sides are about to experience a windfall of in excess of £20 million per team along with promises of huge increases in TV revenues. Players need certainty and who could blame a player like Sam Davies for deciding to further his career in England when a firm offer from Bristol, Harlequins or Exeter arrives. Nearer to home how does this affect a player like Jonny McNichol. He will be being pressurised by suitors from abroad to make his mind up or else they will take their pot of gold and offer it to someone else. 

Very difficult times. 
The problems as far as I can tell are:
The Ospreys' directors have had enough of writing cheques
WRU forced Peter Thomas out with promises of extra cash for pro rugby and now there's some uncertainty he's decided not to pay the bills for the rest of the season.

The agreement seemed to be sewn up back in the Summer of 2018, but clearly there's been a lot happening since them.

I read somewhere some time ago that Blyth is standing down and they were courting the owner of Princes Gate to take over. I think that plan has fallen by the wayside because it has gone very quiet. If he'd stepped in, there would have been fanfares celebrating his arrival.

David Jones didn't, in the end, step in. They have a new chairman - Mike James who bankrolled them for years - and the all-whites before them. Rob Davies/Mike James and Roger Blyth have always been the men behind the Os. Blyth stood down in Nov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

I can't make it maybe someone can ask about this

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/radical-plan-ospreys-scarlets-dragons-15676696.amp

I don't believe a word so if it is nonsense then maybe the wru and 4 regions should boycott the Fail for any interviews/articles.


All of their negative press can't be helping the situation

There isn't a cat in hell's chance that the directors of Cardiff or Scarlets would accept merging with their rivals. The Dragons won't get a say in the matter and I'm not entirely sure that the Ospreys directors have any long term plans, so perhaps it would be a dignified exit for them.

Getting AWJ and Beard would solve our second row problem !!!! I'd have Scott too and Tipuric. Not sure about anyone else !!!!!

Well let me rephrase that. If the merged team were to play in Scarlet and be based in Llanelli, we might get some movement. 

I think they'd have to. O's don't own their ground, and currently there's a dispute as to who is responsible for the maintenance of the stadium which has a problem with rust.
The O's have a pretty long lease, and our stadium steelwork is looking a bit rusty above the South stand to be fair!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:37pm
The Ospreys have well documented financial issues and the Blues currently don’t have a long term lease on CAP, so I’d be worried for them. The WRU own a 50% stake in the Dragons and possibly own Dave Parade, we own our ground and show signs of clearing our debts.
Whatever the WRU are trying to negotiate with the regions, I trust in our board to get the best deal possible for the Scarlets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

The Ospreys have well documented financial issues and the Blues currently don’t have a long term lease on CAP, so I’d be worried for them. The WRU own a 50% stake in the Dragons and possibly own Dave Parade, we own our ground and show signs of clearing our debts.
Whatever the WRU are trying to negotiate with the regions, I trust in our board to get the best deal possible for the Scarlets.
I have a lot of faith in Nigel Short. He was pretty much single handedly responsible for ensuring that additional money spent on funding the running costs of (not buying the land of)the Dragons was also given to the other teams, as per the RSA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2019 at 11:31pm
Tbh I’d be happy with a bit of transparency, good news or bad news.
For some reason the WRU think it’s best to operate behind a closed curtain a la Wizard of Oz, and it’s only excellent work by the likes of Crys that keeps us informed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 9:45am
Well the rugby paper had 3 of the regions are in the crack, Blues,Dragons and Ospreys?
The Blues need to find a million , the dragons have over spent by a million and the Ospreys have not long ago received 500k from the WRU
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 9:58am
I think that I amright in saying that 75% of revenue to the Welsh game comes from the WRU/Principality etc?  That being so I suspect this sets the scene for the financial debates over the next 12 months ! Worrying , challenging and interesting times all thrown in the pot. Lets hope its a Sosban !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 10:09am
Something clearly needs to be done financially if our regions are ever going to be consistently successful. Talk of two regions may well be overkill but why not 3. That would free up an immediate uplift of around £2million per region. The obvious solution would be a merger of the two least successful professional regions who have huge current financial issues namely the Blues and Dragons. 

A combined squad of the Blues & Dragons would produce a competitive region with no issues of ground tenancy and no requirement for long term private benefactors like Peter's pies. Cardiff Athletic club could carry on hosting Cardiff RFC games and/or develop their prime city centre real estate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 10:10am
Personally, with the cost of running the pro game in Wales, WRU can only really afford 2 QUALITY teams.

Those teams...Scarlets & Cardiff Blues.
Cardiff Blues would either still play at CAP or elsewhere...fact is, they are the capital city and it would be mad to let them go.
Scarlets are making waves on and off the field, have an academy that has worked well since before regional rugby and still going well. Ownership in PYS and training facilities.
Scarlets and Cardiff Blues will also be 50 odd miles apart. Another key plus point IMO. instead of having 4 teams within 80 miles of each other aint great. 

Ospreyes currently own no ground, own no training facility. Dragons are 50% owned by WRU, also have no ground to call their own and have made zero progress since regional inception.


Having 2 teams does have the negative side especially when it comes to player base. BUT.
This can give us 2 teams that would rival the depth and quality of Leinster/Munster as well as the appropriate funding to keep them highly competitive.

I personally am not surprised this is ONE of the options tabled.

Another option could be going down to 3. keeping possibly Dragons (due to WRU interest) but for the sole purpose of game time for youngsters and a side completely dependent on loans from the other 2 regions so the running costs would be nowhere near to the current amount.

Tonight will certainly be an interesting meeting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 10:32am
worth noting David Buttress has apologised on twitter to both Cardiff Blues and Dragons fans for reading such rubbish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Haruki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 11:18am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Something clearly needs to be done financially if our regions are ever going to be consistently successful. Talk of two regions may well be overkill but why not 3. That would free up an immediate uplift of around £2million per region. The obvious solution would be a merger of the two least successful professional regions who have huge current financial issues namely the Blues and Dragons. 

A combined squad of the Blues & Dragons would produce a competitive region with no issues of ground tenancy and no requirement for long term private benefactors like Peter's pies. Cardiff Athletic club could carry on hosting Cardiff RFC games and/or develop their prime city centre real estate.

I agree with this as a solution. All 3 regions get a bigger slice of the pie. WRU can go ahead with their plan to develop the Principality onto the arms Park land to give a bigger stand at that end and more corporate facilities. The new region could play smaller games at RP and bigger games at Principality.  3 regions with 3 players for each position still gives a player base of 9 to choose from for Wales (obviously less when factoring in NWQ's)

The problem with going to 2 regions is that a) the player  base for Wales becomes too narrow as Scotland have found and b) it is an inconsistent message to say "Play in Wales to Play for Wales" but then not have enough squads to cater for everyone. What would happen if a player is ripping it up in say the Premiership and was only there as neither Welsh region could accommodate him?, Surely he couldn't be discounted from Wales selection on that basis?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 12:38pm
If you had 2 super regions then what happens also to the Welsh semi-pro Premiership which will shrink in numbers next season anyway plus with big WRU  funding cut backs (and the Championship will get peanuts so basically amateur) and also you then have the A league regional teams. A lot of thinking and integration will be needed on all this and a huge amount of effort to persuade Welsh club supporters of the merits of the plans. If there were cost savings in having 2 regions would this mean more money available from the WRU to have a properly funded smaller Premiership linking as proper feeders to the 2 super regions with age/salary caps etc? One thing is certain if Wales is to see clubs winning regularly at the highest levels in Europe we need a lot more funding in a poor country ,so it doesn't take much intuition to see where things will be heading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 12:46pm
I'll be 200 miles away, unfortunately, but great to see Nigel Short and Jon Daniels come straight out to supporters to explain what this means for the Scarlets and the regions - chapeau to CRYS16 (as ever) for lining this up. ClapClapClap

It's been a long, hard road to get here, and there will still be tough financial times ahead thanks to Lewis and Pickering's strategy of starving the regions of the cash they needed to build a structure which, ironically, would have underpinned the Wales squad's success.

We now have PRW absorbed inside the WRU as the Professional Game Board.Committee and, although the shackles of Millennium Stadium debt repayment will live on, we now have a joined up, 'hand in glove' approach to maximising revenues and developing performance.

Any talk of further mergers being 'tabled' is a bit wide of the mark, but it's an indication of how deeply the 5 entities have gone to consider all possible options. The pressure will be on to perform (especially at the Dragons), but the structures and strategy will be aligned to give Welsh rugby the best possible chance of success. Da iawn i bawb. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pillory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 3:05pm
I hope the radical idea of going down to two regions is just Trump-style "Art Of The Deal" stuff - ie. set out your most extreme negotiating position and work from there.

From our own perspective, end of Scarlets would be chronically bad for Llanelli in cultural and social terms.

From a broader perspective, regionalisation to four/five already disconnected so many people across Wales from top-flight rugby. I can't help but see that reduction to two would only do worse.

You can point to a Premiership, below, that is now on national TV etc and stress that it is below the elite level where, culturally, Welsh rugby should continue to thrive. But they ringfenced the Premiership.

Now, people can blame us for fighting to retain Llanelli/Scarlets, and the WRU leadership of the time for not enacting "true" regionalisation. But we are where we are. End of Scarlets would be devastating and I hope it is fought tooth and nail.

There is something incredibly depressing about the tone of things these last few years. It is austerity in more ways than one... cut, cut, cut. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote diego6754 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2019 at 4:54pm
As my Father and my Grandfather have done, as long as their is a rugby team called the Scarlets, playing in Llanelli I will support them. I could not support another side based in another town.
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