Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > GENERAL RUGBY
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Rees Zammit

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 22599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 9:11am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pivac would be a fool not to pick this young guy. He is absolutely tearing it up in England which, lets be totally honest, is a far tougher league than the pro 14. Not only is he scoring tries he is making tries with quality decision making. This boy is a future Lion so why would he not be brought into the camp and given some time in this 6 nations to tie him to the country that he has consistently said he wants to play for - surely its a no brainer. What message not selecting him because of him signing for Gloucester send to all the other potential Welsh stars currently getting their rugby education in England? 

Talk of not picking him because he has signed for Gloucester is utter nonsense. Do we want a successful Welsh team or not? From what I have seen of this boy & more importantly what decent judges of wing play have stated he is way ahead of any other winger available to Wales today other than Adams. I am classing Liam as a FB for the benefit of this comparison. 

We must realise that there aren't enough contracts available within 4 regions to give all Welsh talent the chance. If English teams can nurture that talent what is wrong with that? We really are so short sighted at times. 
The message would be if you don’t play in Wales you don’t play for Wales which is how it should be IMO. Nothing short sighted about wanting to strengthen the professional game in Wales. As for not enough places at the Welsh pro sides... it’s all about strength in depth. After all one of the reasons given for moving to regional rugby in 2003 was to create more competition for places. These days we are afraid of it. Imagine how much Rees-Zammit would benefit the Ospreys or the Dragons.

Its about getting time on the field surely. Rees-Zammit would probably not have played for any of the regions this season if the truth be told. Look at our team - Conbeer & Baldwin not making our 23 because of McNichol and Hadleigh. 

What about all the other guys who are getting 1st team exposure in England - Lloyd at Bristol, Reiffel & Costelow at Leicester. If they are developing their talents at the cost of English clubs why would we place obstacles in the way of them playing for their country. Take Tommy Reiffel for that matter - an openside. Who would he be starting for in Wales? Young talent needs to play to develop otherwise they do not fulfil their promise. How much has Ryan Elias improved in the past 4 years - he needs games & will not get enough within our regional system.
They’d all get plenty of game time in Wales. I’ve said it before but I find it very strange how you are against a ruling which really does benefit the Scarlets 
got to agree with both of you here,yes we want the best players in wales but I agree with gareth in as much that there is no way if zammitt with us this season he would have had the amount of appearances he has had with Gloucester,george north with wales is a classic example of sticking with a player however bad he is playing we have promising 28 year olds in wales,Wink
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 9:18am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pivac would be a fool not to pick this young guy. He is absolutely tearing it up in England which, lets be totally honest, is a far tougher league than the pro 14. Not only is he scoring tries he is making tries with quality decision making. This boy is a future Lion so why would he not be brought into the camp and given some time in this 6 nations to tie him to the country that he has consistently said he wants to play for - surely its a no brainer. What message not selecting him because of him signing for Gloucester send to all the other potential Welsh stars currently getting their rugby education in England? 

Talk of not picking him because he has signed for Gloucester is utter nonsense. Do we want a successful Welsh team or not? From what I have seen of this boy & more importantly what decent judges of wing play have stated he is way ahead of any other winger available to Wales today other than Adams. I am classing Liam as a FB for the benefit of this comparison. 

We must realise that there aren't enough contracts available within 4 regions to give all Welsh talent the chance. If English teams can nurture that talent what is wrong with that? We really are so short sighted at times. 
The message would be if you don’t play in Wales you don’t play for Wales which is how it should be IMO. Nothing short sighted about wanting to strengthen the professional game in Wales. As for not enough places at the Welsh pro sides... it’s all about strength in depth. After all one of the reasons given for moving to regional rugby in 2003 was to create more competition for places. These days we are afraid of it. Imagine how much Rees-Zammit would benefit the Ospreys or the Dragons.

Its about getting time on the field surely. Rees-Zammit would probably not have played for any of the regions this season if the truth be told. Look at our team - Conbeer & Baldwin not making our 23 because of McNichol and Hadleigh. 

What about all the other guys who are getting 1st team exposure in England - Lloyd at Bristol, Reiffel & Costelow at Leicester. If they are developing their talents at the cost of English clubs why would we place obstacles in the way of them playing for their country. Take Tommy Reiffel for that matter - an openside. Who would he be starting for in Wales? Young talent needs to play to develop otherwise they do not fulfil their promise. How much has Ryan Elias improved in the past 4 years - he needs games & will not get enough within our regional system.
They’d all get plenty of game time in Wales. I’ve said it before but I find it very strange how you are against a ruling which really does benefit the Scarlets 

I have also said it before I do not see any evidence that this rule has benefitted the Scarlets in any way. I am also fundamentally opposed to any rule which tries to dictate to an individual how they go about their legal business or a rule which stops us selecting our very best players which leads to nonsensical comments like Pivac's statement that non Welsh players would have to be fundamentally better than Welsh born challengers. We shall see how that pans out tomorrow & I hope that journalists like your goodself will challenge Mr Pivac if he selects Hadleigh ahead of Steff or Ben Thomas or Jonny ahead of Steff Evans, Lane, Amos or Rees-Zammit because there cannot be any rugby supporter who consider that they are playing better at the moment than the Welsh born players mentioned. 
I’m not going to list names but I could name you over 20 players who have stayed in Wales due to this ruling. And no I’m not going to go all xenophobic on Pivac. McNicholl and Parkes are Welsh qualified and have as much right to play as anyone else.

Come on now Steff address the real issue - I never said that Jonny or Hadleigh should not play for Wales did I. Pivac's words are correctly quoted are they not? In your opinion should Hadleigh or Jonny be selected ahead of Welsh born players based on their current form with the Scarlets? As for 20 players tahts a hell of a lot from the Scarlets squad - can't believe it I'm afraid. 
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 12:50pm
Cap him and tie him to wales.
 
He is still in education as well as playing rugby isn't he? so he is hardly going to move just yet
 
The boy looks rapid, has good skills and can score trys we would be daft to risk him being snapped up by England
 
Unlike stef there are no question marks over his pace, unlike lane he is a genuine winger not a converted centre, unlike north he is in good form and unlike jonny he will be in his prime for the next world cup
 
Pick him in the squad put him on the bench vs Italy cap him and then decide if we want to risk him for the rest of the 6 nations once he is tied to wales for ever
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pivac would be a fool not to pick this young guy. He is absolutely tearing it up in England which, lets be totally honest, is a far tougher league than the pro 14. Not only is he scoring tries he is making tries with quality decision making. This boy is a future Lion so why would he not be brought into the camp and given some time in this 6 nations to tie him to the country that he has consistently said he wants to play for - surely its a no brainer. What message not selecting him because of him signing for Gloucester send to all the other potential Welsh stars currently getting their rugby education in England? 

Talk of not picking him because he has signed for Gloucester is utter nonsense. Do we want a successful Welsh team or not? From what I have seen of this boy & more importantly what decent judges of wing play have stated he is way ahead of any other winger available to Wales today other than Adams. I am classing Liam as a FB for the benefit of this comparison. 

We must realise that there aren't enough contracts available within 4 regions to give all Welsh talent the chance. If English teams can nurture that talent what is wrong with that? We really are so short sighted at times. 
The message would be if you don’t play in Wales you don’t play for Wales which is how it should be IMO. Nothing short sighted about wanting to strengthen the professional game in Wales. As for not enough places at the Welsh pro sides... it’s all about strength in depth. After all one of the reasons given for moving to regional rugby in 2003 was to create more competition for places. These days we are afraid of it. Imagine how much Rees-Zammit would benefit the Ospreys or the Dragons.
 
the other question is how much would it benefit him to be playing in two poor sides who are often getting beaten up in the forwards and have v little ball
 
He is playing outside guys like Heinz ciprani and woodward ,  he is learning from them and he is in a team that is playing well in the best domestic league in Europe and is also doing well in the top cup competition in Europe as well
 
What would he be learning playing outside the likes of luke price and or jack Dixon?
 
Let him finish his studies see out his contract  and at 21 he can still come back to the regional game and have a long career here in wales at regional and test level
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Pivac would be a fool not to pick this young guy. He is absolutely tearing it up in England which, lets be totally honest, is a far tougher league than the pro 14. Not only is he scoring tries he is making tries with quality decision making. This boy is a future Lion so why would he not be brought into the camp and given some time in this 6 nations to tie him to the country that he has consistently said he wants to play for - surely its a no brainer. What message not selecting him because of him signing for Gloucester send to all the other potential Welsh stars currently getting their rugby education in England? 

Talk of not picking him because he has signed for Gloucester is utter nonsense. Do we want a successful Welsh team or not? From what I have seen of this boy & more importantly what decent judges of wing play have stated he is way ahead of any other winger available to Wales today other than Adams. I am classing Liam as a FB for the benefit of this comparison. 

We must realise that there aren't enough contracts available within 4 regions to give all Welsh talent the chance. If English teams can nurture that talent what is wrong with that? We really are so short sighted at times. 
The message would be if you don’t play in Wales you don’t play for Wales which is how it should be IMO. Nothing short sighted about wanting to strengthen the professional game in Wales. As for not enough places at the Welsh pro sides... it’s all about strength in depth. After all one of the reasons given for moving to regional rugby in 2003 was to create more competition for places. These days we are afraid of it. Imagine how much Rees-Zammit would benefit the Ospreys or the Dragons.
 
the other question is how much would it benefit him to be playing in two poor sides who are often getting beaten up in the forwards and have v little ball
 
He is playing outside guys like Heinz ciprani and woodward ,  he is learning from them and he is in a team that is playing well in the best domestic league in Europe and is also doing well in the top cup competition in Europe as well
 
What would he be learning playing outside the likes of luke price and or jack Dixon?
 
Let him finish his studies see out his contract  and at 21 he can still come back to the regional game and have a long career here in wales at regional and test level

That would be the common sense approach RR1972 but far too many fellow members seem to want to punish Welsh players who have the audacity to realise that the World doesn't end slightly east of Newport.

You also make a very valid point about the standards available in Welsh regions. We still have a slightly conservative approach with young players even at the Scarlets who are by far and away the pick of the regions. 
Back to Top
Owen111 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 22 November 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 419
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Owen111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 3:52pm
Im pretty glad for the 60 cap rule after seeing the mass exodus of players form the SA teams in Super Rugby this season. World Cup champs or not.


Back to Top
miaow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 December 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 523
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

Originally posted by Mundoscarlet Mundoscarlet wrote:

I totally agree with you 


This feels very much like the Webb situation, sign up quick so you don't get caught. 

Wales will pick him, but they shouldn't.


He will learn more quickly in England about the game than he will in Wales. Tougher standard of comp. He's also come through the academy there. No reason to rush him back. His defence and other weaknesses will be worked on better than they would against the likes of Zebre, Dragons, Kings etc. He's come through an English system, no point rushing him back. He can stay there now for 3-4 years (he'll be 22 by next world cup ffs...) and then look at joining a region if he's still thought of as good enough to invest in, which he should be.

He'll learn playing against London Irish, Worcester Newcastle and Leicester than he would against Leinster Munster Ulster??

That seems very unlikely to me.


Why unlikely? Of course he'll learn more playing in a league where week in, week out standards are demanded, not allowing teams to coast along so stretches of games (Ospreys) or even seasons (Dragons) developing a losing mentality and not developing the right kind of robustness or basic skills.

He's still learning the game. English rugby is tougher, and Gloucester also play good, attacking rugby. He won't be missing out by coming home. Josh Adams should be a prime example how it's good for the mind and maturity as well. If he came home he'd get the Cuthbert treatment as a Welsh star who's never really held to account or picked on merit. At Gloucester, if he underperforms, he'll be dropped. That's enough motivation to improve instead of treading water.

It's pretty simple. If he's succeeding in England, stay in England. If a player is succeeding in Wales, stay in  Wales. Only when the toughness of the English Premiership and the way they treat their players like bags of meat becomes apparent is it vital to bring Welsh players home. Once LRZ has had one or two major injuries, and it's less about developing basic skills and experience than it is about game management and Wales-specific fitness, then it makes total sense to bring him to the region.

If you're telling him he should move home because of some sense of national "duty" then it's hard to take you seriously. Rugby's professional. Everyone has to look out for themselves now.
Back to Top
miaow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 December 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 523
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Im pretty glad for the 60 cap rule after seeing the mass exodus of players form the SA teams in Super Rugby this season. World Cup champs or not.




Agreed. No one wants an either/or situation like in New Zealand or Scotland. This system is good, it's  halfway house and an imperfect balance between strong regions and recognising that players will develop and be top players outside Wales as well.
Back to Top
Havard Fan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 789
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Havard Fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

Has just signed a long-term deal with Glaws

Wales should not pick him now. 


Anyone who disagrees does not care about our regions.

Sorry, but have to disagree with this. The clause to allow players to be chosen for Wales, who have not yet been capped, is extremely fair. Imagine being a regional player and cast aside, where the only place you get picked up is in England. (Josh Adams, Dan Thomas & Sam Lewis). Then imagine that you develop further and hit a level where you could potentially play for the country of your birth, but you are blocked as you are no longer playing in Wales. This is clearly not your fault and you shouldn't be penalised for it.

The Zammit case is slightly different, I agree. He's been offered a paid scholarship in England and Gloucester have given him a shot. He's been playing on an academy contract until now. Gloucester probably want some additional game time from him before he has to come back to Wales, so get a nice juicy contract in front of him before he's potentially selected for the 6 nations squad. Don't blame them at all as it's a wise move. You also cannot blame the boy, as a full senior pro contract is all young rugby players aspirations.

However he's clearly nailed his international future to Wales, where it would be wise to cap him, before he qualifies for England on residency grounds. Adding to our depth is key, especially as we don't use our capture team any more (A team)
Back to Top
ousbappvic View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 13 January 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ousbappvic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 6:38pm
He gets more gametime in England, (and is taking up a spot for a possible young English talent Wink)

Every other region has back line players who could make a case for the welsh squad soon.
Ospreys: Luke Morgan
Keelan Giles
George North

Scarlets (we have 4): Johnny McNicholl
Liam Williams
Steff Evans
Leigh Halfpenny 

Blues: Josh Adams
Hallam Amos
Owen Lane
(Matthew Morgan?)

Dragons: Rio Dyer (great young talent)
Ashton Hewitt
Jordan Williams

Yes Rees Zammit is better than a lot of the players in this list, but is it worth taking the minutes off potential Welsh bolters rather than the fact that he's getting week in week out minutes at Gloucester
Back to Top
miaow View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 December 2019
Status: Offline
Points: 523
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2020 at 9:35pm
I'd like Wales to have another look at Luke Morgan at some point. He's absolutely lethal with ball in hand an outside to run at, and could easily have been key to the Ospreys beating Saracens if they weren't so uncoached and useless once they make linebreaks.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 7:34am
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

I'd like Wales to have another look at Luke Morgan at some point. He's absolutely lethal with ball in hand an outside to run at, and could easily have been key to the Ospreys beating Saracens if they weren't so uncoached and useless once they make linebreaks.

Surely you don't mean that Sherratt is useless!!!! Some on here think he is god's gift to coaching. Me I agree with you. 
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 7:39am
Some posters on here are suggesting that we should pick Rees-Zammit, give him some minutes against Italy and then let him develop for a few years as he is then tied. I do not agree. This boy is good enough, in my opinion, shared by Ugo Monye & Jonathan Davies (Jiffy) that he is good enough to play fro Wales now. 

He would be my pick at 14 against Italy with Liam on the bench. After that game & with the benefit of seeing him in training and with a match under his belt the coaching staff will have a decision to make for the Ireland game with hopefully Liam fully fit along with Leigh & Adams.
Back to Top
Fscarlet View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 26 January 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 8:45am
At the end of the day we should pick on form, Rees-Zammit is the in form Welsh winger & deserves a start against Italy. He is streets ahead of any other Welsh winger at the moment & it should be him & Adams starting the first match of the championship.
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 22599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2020 at 7:42am
limped off injured yesterday,don't know how bad it is.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 9226
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2020 at 8:37am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

limped off injured yesterday,don't know how bad it is.

Yes didn't look good but he was playing very well up to that point against a decent winger - Cheslan Colbe. He scored a try early doors but for me the highlight was when he gave their full back a 20 metre start from an intercept and caught him 10 metres out - absolute sheer gas. Also he was safe under the bomb and very dangerous in the air off attacking kicks. It will be real shame if he is not fit to start against Italy. This boy is the real deal - for me the most exciting winger in Britain & Ireland by a street. 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.