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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 9:40am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Who coaches the coaches? We need to get a load of Kiwis in at all age groups.

Lets not fall into the trap that everything Southern Hemisphere is better than we have got. Brad was a real nice guy who immersed himself in the Scarlets but lets be perfectly honest we didn't improve much in his short time with us. The AB's made a mistake in appointing Foster as there was one stand out coach in Scott Robertson. For me Robertson, Erasmus and Lam are the three front runners of coaches at the moment with Baxter deserving of a mention. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 9:40am
Few things for me.

Mark Jones is defence coach at the Crusaders, not sure what area he wants to specialise in moving forward but that what he's currently doing.

Our training week has been and will continue to be disrupted by covid, not giving that as an excuse for any skills issues, just a fact we've got to deal with.

Our record of developing coaches both Welsh and non-Welsh is really good, we can debate how suitable some are for the jobs they are in put ultimately Pivac, Stephen Jones, Hayward, Mooar, Easterby and others in recent times have gone onto international roles.

The public face that we see from coaches also doesn't necessarily reflect what they are like behind closed doors or in the training environment.

And I thought Andrew Mehrtens was a very well rounded player, including attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 9:47am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Who coaches the coaches? We need to get a load of Kiwis in at all age groups.


Lets not fall into the trap that everything Southern Hemisphere is better than we have got. Brad was a real nice guy who immersed himself in the Scarlets but lets be perfectly honest we didn't improve much in his short time with us. The AB's made a mistake in appointing Foster as there was one stand out coach in Scott Robertson. For me Robertson, Erasmus and Lam are the three front runners of coaches at the moment with Baxter deserving of a mention. 


We've probably got the best depth in quality in the pack that we've had in about 15 years with arguable every position up for debate (probably with the exception of tighthead), our entire backline and some are in the Welsh squad and we've got a very good defence, that's down to good planning as well as coaches but you've got to give some credit to the likes of Mooar for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 9:57am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

We know the regional budgets are less than the Irish budgets, so it's not rocket science as to why we have who we have over here. The Irish teams have the likes of Contempomi, Larkham, Rowntree, Lancaster etc. Those coaches aren't at Welsh clubs because Welsh clubs can't afford their wages. It's no different to players. There's a reason the South African World Cup Winning centre went to Munster and not to a Welsh side.

You can't just decide to ignore finance. And shipping out a world class player or 2 to get a better coach in means your squad is weaker. It's all about finance, 9 times out of 10 a lower budget means you are not as good on the pitch.

Making your squad weaker for better coaching is not even a calculated gamble. How much have AWJ, Liam & Foxy actually contributed to their regions this season? For the Scarlets if finance is the issue then for instance lose Liam and replace him in the squad by Tom Rogers which would leave a substantial amount left over for a quality attack coach. At the moment we have two coaches for the backs - Flanagan & Whiffin - why??? Frankly on what I have seen they are not doing a very good job. 

Someone - Dic I think - during another string of dire performances some time ago suggested that my old friend Allan Lewis could do a decent short term job. One thing Allan would sort out from day one is the alignment & passing skills. My point is there are quality Welsh coaches available who could do better jobs than the current incumbents without breaking the budget. Surely Dai Young would do a better job than Mulhivill? Mark Jones ( wait for it) would now certainly do a better job than Flannagan/Whiffin.

Welsh rugby seems set on bringing back Welsh qualified players ( some with very tenuous links) but ignore talented Welsh coaches. Finally there is a lot of nonsense talked about how the game has changed blah, blah blah. Does any serious contributor really think that Benny & Jiffy would not transform our back play overnight??? How you may ask - by reinstating the old adage that it is the 10 who calls the shots in attack and plays what in front of them. Both would have longed for having the ball in their hands and would have given it back to the opposition as a final resort not as a matter of choice even off 1st phase ball. Carwyn would have have been looking at that performance against the Dragons on a perfect night for rugby and wondering what on earth happened to his beloved team. 
mark jones was a strong advocate of kicking possession away and one of the reasons 4 of us gave up our season tickets after donkeys years,if we are going to change what we have let's do it with someoner who sees giving possession away as a sin,with regards to allan he was coaching the backs in the 92/93 season and an absolute gent but he's in his 70's now so wether he would be interested i don't know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:13am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

We know the regional budgets are less than the Irish budgets, so it's not rocket science as to why we have who we have over here. The Irish teams have the likes of Contempomi, Larkham, Rowntree, Lancaster etc. Those coaches aren't at Welsh clubs because Welsh clubs can't afford their wages. It's no different to players. There's a reason the South African World Cup Winning centre went to Munster and not to a Welsh side.

You can't just decide to ignore finance. And shipping out a world class player or 2 to get a better coach in means your squad is weaker. It's all about finance, 9 times out of 10 a lower budget means you are not as good on the pitch.

Making your squad weaker for better coaching is not even a calculated gamble. How much have AWJ, Liam & Foxy actually contributed to their regions this season? For the Scarlets if finance is the issue then for instance lose Liam and replace him in the squad by Tom Rogers which would leave a substantial amount left over for a quality attack coach. At the moment we have two coaches for the backs - Flanagan & Whiffin - why??? Frankly on what I have seen they are not doing a very good job. 

Someone - Dic I think - during another string of dire performances some time ago suggested that my old friend Allan Lewis could do a decent short term job. One thing Allan would sort out from day one is the alignment & passing skills. My point is there are quality Welsh coaches available who could do better jobs than the current incumbents without breaking the budget. Surely Dai Young would do a better job than Mulhivill? Mark Jones ( wait for it) would now certainly do a better job than Flannagan/Whiffin.

Welsh rugby seems set on bringing back Welsh qualified players ( some with very tenuous links) but ignore talented Welsh coaches. Finally there is a lot of nonsense talked about how the game has changed blah, blah blah. Does any serious contributor really think that Benny & Jiffy would not transform our back play overnight??? How you may ask - by reinstating the old adage that it is the 10 who calls the shots in attack and plays what in front of them. Both would have longed for having the ball in their hands and would have given it back to the opposition as a final resort not as a matter of choice even off 1st phase ball. Carwyn would have have been looking at that performance against the Dragons on a perfect night for rugby and wondering what on earth happened to his beloved team. 
mark jones was a strong advocate of kicking possession away and one of the reasons 4 of us gave up our season tickets after donkeys years,if we are going to change what we have let's do it with someoner who sees giving possession away as a sin,with regards to allan he was coaching the backs in the 92/93 season and an absolute gent but he's in his 70's now so wether he would be interested i don't know.

Two things Nigel - Mark has surely developed his thinking about coaching in general after his stint working under Scott Robertson - my point of course was he would be better than Flanagan/Whiffin. I understand that Allan would not be interested but the point I am making is there are decent coaches around who understand the game and the basics of attacking and creating overlaps - skills which have not really changed since I was playing along with Allan all those many years ago.Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:14am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

We know the regional budgets are less than the Irish budgets, so it's not rocket science as to why we have who we have over here. The Irish teams have the likes of Contempomi, Larkham, Rowntree, Lancaster etc. Those coaches aren't at Welsh clubs because Welsh clubs can't afford their wages. It's no different to players. There's a reason the South African World Cup Winning centre went to Munster and not to a Welsh side.

You can't just decide to ignore finance. And shipping out a world class player or 2 to get a better coach in means your squad is weaker. It's all about finance, 9 times out of 10 a lower budget means you are not as good on the pitch.


Making your squad weaker for better coaching is not even a calculated gamble. How much have AWJ, Liam & Foxy actually contributed to their regions this season? For the Scarlets if finance is the issue then for instance lose Liam and replace him in the squad by Tom Rogers which would leave a substantial amount left over for a quality attack coach.


Which is fine. But then we lose out on thousands of WRU money for having Wales players in our squad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:29am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

We know the regional budgets are less than the Irish budgets, so it's not rocket science as to why we have who we have over here. The Irish teams have the likes of Contempomi, Larkham, Rowntree, Lancaster etc. Those coaches aren't at Welsh clubs because Welsh clubs can't afford their wages. It's no different to players. There's a reason the South African World Cup Winning centre went to Munster and not to a Welsh side.

You can't just decide to ignore finance. And shipping out a world class player or 2 to get a better coach in means your squad is weaker. It's all about finance, 9 times out of 10 a lower budget means you are not as good on the pitch.


Making your squad weaker for better coaching is not even a calculated gamble. How much have AWJ, Liam & Foxy actually contributed to their regions this season? For the Scarlets if finance is the issue then for instance lose Liam and replace him in the squad by Tom Rogers which would leave a substantial amount left over for a quality attack coach.


Which is fine. But then we lose out on thousands of WRU money for having Wales players in our squad.

Yes Kid A I appreciate there are repercussions but, in an ideal world, we are only going to see Liam & all the other Welsh squad members for 10-12 games a season. That is more like 4-5 with the injury situations. A top coach we get all season working with, what most knowledgeable people in the game, see as young talent as good as anything in Europe and better than most. That surely is a recipe for a successful team. Home grown, local talent supplemented by experienced overseas professionals like Sione, Sam & Tex and we could start competing at the top table again. 

To hell with supplying Wales with players until they start showing sensible release policies so that regions can try to prosper. Well run regions can survive without team Wales; team Wales cannot survive without the regions. At the moment we are treated as if it were the other way round and it is long overdue for change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:30am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Brad was a real nice guy who immersed himself in the Scarlets but lets be perfectly honest we didn't improve much in his short time with us.
He got us to a Challenge Cup QF and would likely* have gotten us to the P14 playoffs had the season run as normal. Sure the performances weren't consistent every week but it was his first season in charge and given how bad we were the season before he took over i'd say there was definite improvement which would have continued had he stayed.


Edited by minded - 04 January 2021 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:46am
Originally posted by minded minded wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Brad was a real nice guy who immersed himself in the Scarlets but lets be perfectly honest we didn't improve much in his short time with us.
He got us to a Challenge Cup QF and would like have gotten us to the P14 playoffs had the season run as normal. Sure the performances weren't consistent every week but it was his first season in charge and given how bad we were the season before he took over i'd say there was definite improvement which would have continued had he stayed.

As I said in his short time with us. Whether Brad was going to make it as a head coach still remains to be seen. He is clearly a talented attack coach if he concentrates on that aspect. Was he an improvement on Pivac's final year - for sure but frankly that didn't take much doing. To be brutally honest it is because of Brad's classic comment " he is son-in-law material" that we seem to be stuck with a steady player at 12 when we have better options available; that is not  just my opinion of course but a majority who agree that our static, crabbing cross field, kick as first option method of attack is getting us nowhere. Both coaching & personnel need to be looked at.

I am not saying that Steff Hughes could not make the 12 shirt his own by being a 2nd distributor if he was playing outside a dynamic 10 who kept defences honest. I am sure he is a decent link player with an excellent kicking game but everything at the moment is far too static & error strewn from 9 to 10 to 12. If I was selecting the team Dan & Steff would not play together unless it was an emergency. Costelow with Steff or Asquith; Dan with Asquith; preferably Costelow with Asquith. However the biggest change by far is required from the coaches who have devised a gameplan which is totally unrecognisable for a Scarlet team. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 10:50am
Apologies Minded for sounding so downbeat - I forgot to add in that as poor as we are playing we are still the best region by a fair margin which I guess is even more downbeat if you are looking at team Wales. Time for walk in the forest I think!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Who coaches the coaches? We need to get a load of Kiwis in at all age groups.

Lets not fall into the trap that everything Southern Hemisphere is better than we have got. Brad was a real nice guy who immersed himself in the Scarlets but lets be perfectly honest we didn't improve much in his short time with us. The AB's made a mistake in appointing Foster as there was one stand out coach in Scott Robertson. For me Robertson, Erasmus and Lam are the three front runners of coaches at the moment with Baxter deserving of a mention. 

You're right there's no quick answer. More coaches from League?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:06am
i think we have very decent players at the moment but i'm more worried about the mindset of negativity they take the field with which is to kick away possession are the dropped and missed passes because not enough attention is being given to them in training?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:20am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Yes Kid A I appreciate there are repercussions but, in an ideal world, we are only going to see Liam & all the other Welsh squad members for 10-12 games a season. That is more like 4-5 with the injury situations. A top coach we get all season working with, what most knowledgeable people in the game, see as young talent as good as anything in Europe and better than most. That surely is a recipe for a successful team. Home grown, local talent supplemented by experienced overseas professionals like Sione, Sam & Tex and we could start competing at the top table again. 

To hell with supplying Wales with players until they start showing sensible release policies so that regions can try to prosper. Well run regions can survive without team Wales; team Wales cannot survive without the regions. At the moment we are treated as if it were the other way round and it is long overdue for change.


I really don't know what you are trying to achieve here sorry. If we have a team competing at the top table, with loads of home grown talent, then those players are going to be picked for Wales. Look at the Jake Ball situation now - he'll go, Morgan Jones will come in and be picked for Wales. That's how it goes.

You can't just say to hell with supplying team Wales with players.

If you pick a team full of Welsh players that team Wales isn't interested in, then that team isn't going to be very good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:33am
we should appoint a national director of coaching to coach the coaches , someone like henry,hansen or Schmidt would be ideal for that role
 
I actually think Stuart Lancaster would be good at that as well


Edited by RR1972 - 04 January 2021 at 11:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:44am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

How mulvihill is still in a job is beyond me the blues are rubbish . Ryan and booth both look decent, delaney started slowly  but is improving now and winning me over. Flannigan is the weak link for us i’d get rid tbh. I watch the bristol vs newcastle game lam is a superb coach i hope he replaces pivac 

And why is Pat Lam so well respected. He coaches the players to play the right way. He will say he has a good team around him and yes he probably does but the Bristol gameplan comes from Lam and involves using the ball efficiently. Of course he has made some superstar signings but he also has a lot of unsung guys mixed with young players in the squad and lives well within the salary cap rules. He would be my next coach for Wales if available. 

Lam is a good coach but it really does help to have south sea islander superstar game breakers in the backline. Stuck in a dreary defence dominated game? Radrada or Piutau will blow it open and mask all the failings of the team set up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2021 at 11:53am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

We know the regional budgets are less than the Irish budgets, so it's not rocket science as to why we have who we have over here. The Irish teams have the likes of Contempomi, Larkham, Rowntree, Lancaster etc. Those coaches aren't at Welsh clubs because Welsh clubs can't afford their wages. It's no different to players. There's a reason the South African World Cup Winning centre went to Munster and not to a Welsh side.

You can't just decide to ignore finance. And shipping out a world class player or 2 to get a better coach in means your squad is weaker. It's all about finance, 9 times out of 10 a lower budget means you are not as good on the pitch.

Making your squad weaker for better coaching is not even a calculated gamble. How much have AWJ, Liam & Foxy actually contributed to their regions this season? For the Scarlets if finance is the issue then for instance lose Liam and replace him in the squad by Tom Rogers which would leave a substantial amount left over for a quality attack coach. At the moment we have two coaches for the backs - Flanagan & Whiffin - why??? Frankly on what I have seen they are not doing a very good job. 

Someone - Dic I think - during another string of dire performances some time ago suggested that my old friend Allan Lewis could do a decent short term job. One thing Allan would sort out from day one is the alignment & passing skills. My point is there are quality Welsh coaches available who could do better jobs than the current incumbents without breaking the budget. Surely Dai Young would do a better job than Mulhivill? Mark Jones ( wait for it) would now certainly do a better job than Flannagan/Whiffin.

Welsh rugby seems set on bringing back Welsh qualified players ( some with very tenuous links) but ignore talented Welsh coaches. Finally there is a lot of nonsense talked about how the game has changed blah, blah blah. Does any serious contributor really think that Benny & Jiffy would not transform our back play overnight??? How you may ask - by reinstating the old adage that it is the 10 who calls the shots in attack and plays what in front of them. Both would have longed for having the ball in their hands and would have given it back to the opposition as a final resort not as a matter of choice even off 1st phase ball. Carwyn would have have been looking at that performance against the Dragons on a perfect night for rugby and wondering what on earth happened to his beloved team. 
The game is unrecognisable to what I was when Benny played. Defences these days are so well coached and organised it’s far harder to open them up off first phase. 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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