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KID A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a
British League?



It's worth noting that the English teams signed a deal that sees CVC have a 91% stake in the company that looks after Premiirship rugby's commercial activity - that means that whatever CVBC want to happen commercial wise - will happen.

Quote All the clubs – the 12 currently in the Premiership plus Championship leaders London Irish – have now received their cash windfall from CVC of £13.5m each, with £25m retained to administer and promote the new set-up. i understands 10 of the 13 clubs have taken the extra step of investing just over £2m each for a collective stake of just under 10 per cent in a new company which will look after the Premiership’s commercial activity.

CVC will run this company, in which they have a 91 per cent cent share, and into which 27 per cent of the Premiership’s revenue – currently estimated at £60m a year – will flow up to a ratchet figure likely to be somewhere between £70m and £90m, at which point the share becomes 50 per cent.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim Opolis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2020 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a
British League?



It's worth noting that the English teams signed a deal that sees CVC have a 91% stake in the company that looks after Premiirship rugby's commercial activity - that means that whatever CVBC want to happen commercial wise - will happen.

Quote All the clubs – the 12 currently in the Premiership plus Championship leaders London Irish – have now received their cash windfall from CVC of £13.5m each, with £25m retained to administer and promote the new set-up. i understands 10 of the 13 clubs have taken the extra step of investing just over £2m each for a collective stake of just under 10 per cent in a new company which will look after the Premiership’s commercial activity.

CVC will run this company, in which they have a 91 per cent cent share, and into which 27 per cent of the Premiership’s revenue – currently estimated at £60m a year – will flow up to a ratchet figure likely to be somewhere between £70m and £90m, at which point the share becomes 50 per cent.




Thanks for this.

I thought that CVC have control of Commercial activities, marketing, TV deals etc. I cant see that they have control of the Premiership clubs themsleves. Surely the clubs themselves have kept control on which league they play in? CVC came in and took control of the Commercial arm of the Premiership.

That's my understanding of it.
Tymor nesa Duw, plis tymor nesa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a
British League?



It's worth noting that the English teams signed a deal that sees CVC have a 91% stake in the company that looks after Premiirship rugby's commercial activity - that means that whatever CVBC want to happen commercial wise - will happen.

Quote All the clubs – the 12 currently in the Premiership plus Championship leaders London Irish – have now received their cash windfall from CVC of £13.5m each, with £25m retained to administer and promote the new set-up. i understands 10 of the 13 clubs have taken the extra step of investing just over £2m each for a collective stake of just under 10 per cent in a new company which will look after the Premiership’s commercial activity.

CVC will run this company, in which they have a 91 per cent cent share, and into which 27 per cent of the Premiership’s revenue – currently estimated at £60m a year – will flow up to a ratchet figure likely to be somewhere between £70m and £90m, at which point the share becomes 50 per cent.




Thanks for this.

I thought that CVC have control of Commercial activities, marketing, TV deals etc. I cant see that they have control of the Premiership clubs themsleves. Surely the clubs themselves have kept control on which league they play in? CVC came in and took control of the Commercial arm of the Premiership.

That's my understanding of it.


No, they don't have control of the clubs. They effectively have a large control of the English tournament and it's commercial activities, and will have a large control of the pro 14 and the six nations. So make of that what you will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 12:29pm
would it be such a bad thing if pro sport such as rugby and espeacially football took a hit and returned to a more realistic affordabilty level?? I am not against sportspeople earning a living before people attack that point I did okay out of it myself for a while. But as football is finding with clubs potentially going to the wall with sky money not coming in and rugby being the same it has shown what we all know in that clubs survivial is on a balancing wire constantly and one nudge and your into oblivion, made worse every year as another club gets a bigger backer and raises the cost of everything to everyone which means bigger debts and a more precarious position. I know people will say the quality wil drop but will it? will we miss gargantuan players smashing through defences or will we see skill and natural talent rule? injuries wouldnt be so prevalent or life changing as body sizes would inevitably drop, lower club rugby could see a resurgence of numbers as (this is a case in the south east of England where I now live old clubs who normally would have 2 or 3 teams plus vets now down to one)
I know it wont happen but just putting it out there would it be such a bad thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

would it be such a bad thing if pro sport such as rugby and espeacially football took a hit and returned to a more realistic affordabilty level??


I don't understand why you would advocate that.

If you inject less money into a professional sport, what benefits do you expect to see?

It would mean fewer quality players. A decline in rugby standards. Fewer spectators. A downturn in turnover, ticket sales and broadcast revenue, which would mean the quality of affordable players declines even further, and we go round in an endless loop until the sport implodes on itself.

Professional sport is rarely profitable for clubs / tebams. That's never going to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

would it be such a bad thing if pro sport such as rugby and espeacially football took a hit and returned to a more realistic affordabilty level?? I am not against sportspeople earning a living before people attack that point I did okay out of it myself for a while. But as football is finding with clubs potentially going to the wall with sky money not coming in and rugby being the same it has shown what we all know in that clubs survivial is on a balancing wire constantly and one nudge and your into oblivion, made worse every year as another club gets a bigger backer and raises the cost of everything to everyone which means bigger debts and a more precarious position. I know people will say the quality wil drop but will it? will we miss gargantuan players smashing through defences or will we see skill and natural talent rule? injuries wouldnt be so prevalent or life changing as body sizes would inevitably drop, lower club rugby could see a resurgence of numbers as (this is a case in the south east of England where I now live old clubs who normally would have 2 or 3 teams plus vets now down to one)
I know it wont happen but just putting it out there would it be such a bad thing?
Yes. Awful and permanently damaging 
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2020 at 8:29pm
I would love to go back to clubs, if CVC said they'd fund an 8 team Welsh Prem it be amazing. But they're not. 

Without big money it won't happen.

The very best we can hope for is an Anglo-Welsh, failing that a British league.

Worse case scenario we stay as is or disappear, probably both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I don't think there's ever been a better opportunity for an anglo welsh league.
I suspect that the WRU is tied into  binding agreements with the other unions involved with the Pro 14, so unfortunately I can’t see it happening.

Covid 19 doesnt care about them.

If the premiership in football are losing hundreds of millions in money from signed agreements, the pro 14s agreements are certainly also vulnerable.

How can we ever get a league with travel to Italy and South africa viable in this current global climate?

Whilst I agree a welsh domestic league wouldnt be the solution, its the perfect time to revamp both the english and welsh domestic game.

The fact Brad moar only used the word club multiple times in his goodbye speech is reflective of where and how the club sees itself moving forward.

Regions are dead.

Long live this wonderful illustrious club of ours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I don't think there's ever been a better opportunity for an anglo welsh league.
I suspect that the WRU is tied into  binding agreements with the other unions involved with the Pro 14, so unfortunately I can’t see it happening.

Covid 19 doesnt care about them.

If the premiership in football are losing hundreds of millions in money from signed agreements, the pro 14s agreements are certainly also vulnerable.

How can we ever get a league with travel to Italy and South africa viable in this current global climate?

Whilst I agree a welsh domestic league wouldnt be the solution, its the perfect time to revamp both the english and welsh domestic game.

The fact Brad moar only used the word club multiple times in his goodbye speech is reflective of where and how the club sees itself moving forward.

Regions are dead.

Long live this wonderful illustrious club of ours.
can't for the life of me see the point of having them in the league
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 11:39am
South Africa results wise on the pitch... Cheetahs doing well IMO, but south Africa have a huge market. CVC wouldn't have come in without identifying that. This has been stated by Nigel Short. South African Market is a huge interest for CVC. What people seem to forget is that Pro14 is easier to set up as a global  tournament. World Club Championship. Something CVC have mentioned as a long term plan.
Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, South Africa already in unison under one league. They already own a large percentage of the English premiership and are in advanced negotiations with NZRU and South Africa... Further super rugby sides coming in from South Africa has already been a topic and even south African players starting to say that it would be better for them all to join the Pro14. Then let's not forget the talks of a team in Toronto and in America.
IMO its a matter of when not if...there will be huge changes in small steps with CVC. They will get the sport marketed properly for the first time ever. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I don't think there's ever been a better opportunity for an anglo welsh league.
I suspect that the WRU is tied into  binding agreements with the other unions involved with the Pro 14, so unfortunately I can’t see it happening.

Covid 19 doesnt care about them.

If the premiership in football are losing hundreds of millions in money from signed agreements, the pro 14s agreements are certainly also vulnerable.

How can we ever get a league with travel to Italy and South africa viable in this current global climate?

Whilst I agree a welsh domestic league wouldnt be the solution, its the perfect time to revamp both the english and welsh domestic game.

The fact Brad moar only used the word club multiple times in his goodbye speech is reflective of where and how the club sees itself moving forward.

Regions are dead.

Long live this wonderful illustrious club of ours.
can't for the life of me see the point of having them in the league
Their inclusion was worth £500k per year to every club. That was the only point.
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Tim Opolis Tim Opolis wrote:

Why on Earth would the English scrap everything they have, which doesnt involve any foreign travel btw, they have shown no appetite for a
British League?



It's worth noting that the English teams signed a deal that sees CVC have a 91% stake in the company that looks after Premiirship rugby's commercial activity - that means that whatever CVBC want to happen commercial wise - will happen.

Quote All the clubs – the 12 currently in the Premiership plus Championship leaders London Irish – have now received their cash windfall from CVC of £13.5m each, with £25m retained to administer and promote the new set-up. i understands 10 of the 13 clubs have taken the extra step of investing just over £2m each for a collective stake of just under 10 per cent in a new company which will look after the Premiership’s commercial activity.

CVC will run this company, in which they have a 91 per cent cent share, and into which 27 per cent of the Premiership’s revenue – currently estimated at £60m a year – will flow up to a ratchet figure likely to be somewhere between £70m and £90m, at which point the share becomes 50 per cent.




Thanks for this.

I thought that CVC have control of Commercial activities, marketing, TV deals etc. I cant see that they have control of the Premiership clubs themsleves. Surely the clubs themselves have kept control on which league they play in? CVC came in and took control of the Commercial arm of the Premiership.

That's my understanding of it.

To have control of the clubs they would have had to buy out each controlling stake in each one. AFAIK they have bought the controlling stake of the competitions in which they play and have done so in all the other competitions, so they do have the options of creating new competitions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2020 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

South Africa results wise on the pitch... Cheetahs doing well IMO, but south Africa have a huge market. CVC wouldn't have come in without identifying that. This has been stated by Nigel Short. South African Market is a huge interest for CVC. What people seem to forget is that Pro14 is easier to set up as a global  tournament. World Club Championship. Something CVC have mentioned as a long term plan.
Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, South Africa already in unison under one league. They already own a large percentage of the English premiership and are in advanced negotiations with NZRU and South Africa... Further super rugby sides coming in from South Africa has already been a topic and even south African players starting to say that it would be better for them all to join the Pro14. Then let's not forget the talks of a team in Toronto and in America.
IMO its a matter of when not if...there will be huge changes in small steps with CVC. They will get the sport marketed properly for the first time ever. 

Yes, agreed, long term, but short term under the current global situation? The only way I see a South African participation working is if it is european based in maybe london, where many of their fanbase are. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cymraes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2020 at 9:29am
I'd love to see a British League, return of bigger gates and more funding and I think there is support in the top English clubs. The problem will be getting the turkeys to vote for Christmas as I believe the founding clubs own a stake in the Premiership. Possibly a two division structure with promotion and relegation? 
There's no way all four Welsh regions will get in to the top tier, or even the league at all, and the WRU might try again for two regions, east and west. We might get two teams in each division in which case it's essential that we remain at the top of the domestic game so that we're in pole position if such an arrangement comes about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2020 at 9:38am
If a British & Irish league was introduced as of last season we could have something along the following lines with two divisions with two up two down format.

Division 1.                                             Division 2
Exeter                                                   Saracens
Sale                                                      Newcastle
Bristol                                                   Worcester
Bath                                                      Leicester
Northampton                                          London Irish
Wasps                                                    Gloucester
Leinster                                                  Harlequins
Edinburgh                                               Dragons
Glasgow                                                  Ospreys 
Munster                                                   Blues
Scarlets                                                   Connacht 
Ulster                                                      Ealing/Nottingham/Jersey

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2020 at 11:10am
The WOL are suggesting that there are talks of English Premiership players being asked to take a 25% pay cut moving forward, not just during the current lockdown.  That suggests that the clubs are all struggling with the wages they are paying and feel that it’s not sustaining and see this as a chance for a clean start.
This makes interesting reading and I see this as an opportunity to look into the possibilities of a British or just an Anglo Welsh league.  However, as I’ve said already, it has to be done fairly with welsh regions (or clubs?) being well represented from a playing point of view.  I don’t want to see us(all regions) being dictated to by the English, I’ve had enough of the Pro 14 being biased towards the Irish provinces.
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