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Reversing prop substitutions

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aber-fan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 June 2017 at 7:39pm
What exactly is the law on this?

I know it can be done in case of injury to the replacement prop, but can it be done for purely tactical reasons?

In tonight's U-20s match between Wales and England, the English replacement LH prop was taking a hell of a beating, and ended up being yellow carded. When the time was up, he returned, only for a few moments of confusion to reign until it became apparent that the English wanted to keep their original LH prop on - to avoid more penalties and cards, obviously.

Now, maybe this is OK in law, but it looks like sharp practice.... or should it have been disallowed?

The lad himself was clearly OK to carry on, as he returned to the field, until he got dragged off once again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 9:19pm
Got to say Wales I am frustrated with today's game. Did all the work to get to try zone then blew it.Several chances to score and blew it. Lack of composure and clinical decision taking.Its no good saying "they will learn " from it as England have already learnt!. Also when our 10 kicked to corner instead of keeping the ball ... rage 😡 Did well against England who obviously have a huge player base unlike us. Self inflicted I felt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2017 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

What exactly is the law on this?

I know it can be done in case of injury to the replacement prop, but can it be done for purely tactical reasons?

In tonight's U-20s match between Wales and England, the English replacement LH prop was taking a hell of a beating, and ended up being yellow carded. When the time was up, he returned, only for a few moments of confusion to reign until it became apparent that the English wanted to keep their original LH prop on - to avoid more penalties and cards, obviously.

Now, maybe this is OK in law, but it looks like sharp practice.... or should it have been disallowed?

The lad himself was clearly OK to carry on, as he returned to the field, until he got dragged off once again!
Yes it looked dodgy and someone had read the rules!
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 9:48am
3.14 Substituted players rejoining the match

If a player is substituted, that player may only return to play when replacing:

  • an injured front row player in accordance with Law 3.5
  • a player with a blood injury in accordance with Law 3.11
  • a player undertaking a Head Injury Assessment in accordance with Law 3.12
  • a player who has been injured as a result of foul play (as verified by the Match Officials).
3.15 Rolling substitutions

A Union may implement rolling substitutions at defined levels of the Game within its jurisdiction. The number of substitutions must not exceed twelve. The administration and rules relating to rolling substitutions are the responsibility of the Union having jurisdiction.



Edited by scarletman - 05 June 2017 at 9:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 10:48am
So, Scarletman, it looks as if the Laws were contravened by the English.

Of course, it may be that they took a 'French' approach, and told the young prop:

"You're injured!"

"No, I'm not... ????"

"Yes, you are - off you come!"

(it's obvious that something peculiar went on, as there was quite a lot of faffing about with the officials when this happened.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 10:54am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Got to say Wales I am frustrated with today's game. Did all the work to get to try zone then blew it.Several chances to score and blew it. Lack of composure and clinical decision taking.Its no good saying "they will learn " from it as England have already learnt!. Also when our 10 kicked to corner instead of keeping the ball ... rage 😡 Did well against England who obviously have a huge player base unlike us. Self inflicted I felt.

They certainly have a base of huge players!

The prop who got into trouble was way, way bigger than the Welsh guy he was up against (Asserati, I think), but had no clue whatsoever about technique - hence the YC against him. If the English had been forced to play this guy - as they should have been - maybe he'd have ended up with a red, and Wales may have won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 11:10am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

So, Scarletman, it looks as if the Laws were contravened by the English.

Of course, it may be that they took a 'French' approach, and told the young prop:

"You're injured!"

"No, I'm not... ????"

"Yes, you are - off you come!"

(it's obvious that something peculiar went on, as there was quite a lot of faffing about with the officials when this happened.)

I haven't seen the "incident" but looking at the timeline of replacements, it seems as though an HIA was called on Dawe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2017 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

So, Scarletman, it looks as if the Laws were contravened by the English.

Of course, it may be that they took a 'French' approach, and told the young prop:

"You're injured!"

"No, I'm not... ????"

"Yes, you are - off you come!"

(it's obvious that something peculiar went on, as there was quite a lot of faffing about with the officials when this happened.)

I haven't seen the "incident" but looking at the timeline of replacements, it seems as though an HIA was called on Dawe.

If so - it's the first time anyone has been concussed whilst sitting on the bench for 10 min serving a YC time-out! (He was not involved in any plays at all after the YC.)

I suppose the English only 'realised' that he might be concussed at the end of the 10 min rest.

What a fiddle! What a farce!
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