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Rhys Webb

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 11:18am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

WRU have clearly stated that, to play for Wales, you must play in Wales. There are clear, understandable exceptions (60+ caps, uncapped players, those who have pre-existing commitments), but Rhys Webb was the first and, so far, only senior casualty of this policy. To perform a u-turn now (other than in exceptional circumstances) would undermine that whole policy. Perhaps it's enough to persuade Webb to return to Wales - if his family hasn't settled in France, perhaps that might be a double blessing, but I agree that it's an invidious decision for him to have to make.

Project Reset was never going to magic up a load more money in Welsh rugby. It can, however, start to channel what money there is to the right areas, in a joined-up way, to start making a difference, and to look for efficiencies to save & reallocate money to help resource the regions against an ever-rising tide of European budgets.

The biggest card the WRU has to play is the Wales shirt - each player will have a premium which may tempt him out of Wales, particularly after a World Cup year, but the strategy is set to keep our stars and top prospects in the country. Imposing wage bands is a slightly clunky and artificial way of getting a grip on player budgets - market forces will always exert pressure eventually - but everyone is signing up to it for the common good.

Not for the good of some players' wages, of course, so I understand their concerns, but the plan has to be tried in the medium term, to stop the regions bidding against each other and use Wales caps as a primary incentive.

The hope and plan then is that new revenues can be generated which will improve the situation for all in Wales. Player wage inflation is a massive factor, so this may end up in Welsh rugby running to stand still, but something has to be tried and, at the very least, we're all trying to pull together.

You talk a lot of sense but the player wage bands with salary caps is the wrong way forward. Why do we seek to stop inter region transfers? The 60 cap rule is also nonsense. I would argue that Rhys Webb has shown far more loyalty to Welsh regional rugby than either of Liam Williams or Taulupe Faletau. 

Lets take a current example of the flaws in this wage band system. Davies the Ospreys 10 who is out of contract this season. The Ospreys will offer him the top of his wage band say. The Scarlets may be interested in him and he may want a fresh challenge playing a more running passing game because that is the way he sees himself getting back in the Welsh team but he cannot be enticed by the Scarlets because they are restricted by the band system. Exeter come calling & offer him £50k per year more. Davies gone to England and Wales lose the services of yet another quality player. 

Well run regions do not need the WRU to organise their wage bands or indeed make decisions on how much they are prepared to pay individual players. Some players are worth more to one region than another - that is common sense. Aled leaving us last season was a no brainer. He became 1st choice 9 and probably picked up more as he was deemed 2nd/3rd choice with us. That is the way of the commercial world and no artificially imposed wage banding system will change that fact. 

If the WRU are worried by a lack of professionalism in the management of some regions then work with those regions to improve things. Don't attempt a one size fits all banding system which will only create more problems. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 11:44am
They had to pick some criteria for selection, and arrived at this after lots of round table discussion. Wage bands are an attempt to control and structure budgets to work within the strategy - no solution will be free of potential issues, risks or constraints, but it's about trying to plan a way through the short- and medium-term challenges facing the pro game in Wales, and has been decided in consensus. Have to give it a chance to work and evolve, imho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 11:53am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

They had to pick some criteria for selection, and arrived at this after lots of round table discussion. Wage bands are an attempt to control and structure budgets to work within the strategy - no solution will be free of potential issues, risks or constraints, but it's about trying to plan a way through the short- and medium-term challenges facing the pro game in Wales, and has been decided in consensus. Have to give it a chance to work and evolve, imho.

Why did they have to pick any criteria? The Scarlets management appear to be able to run our finances effectively. Project Reset was announced amid a huge fanfare promising more money for the regions so that they could compete more effectively. Well I haven't seen any more money only a pretty amateurish moving the deckchairs around whilst delaying the recruitment & retention of playing personnel for the 2019/20 season. 

It will only take one high profile player announcing that he is not prepared to wait any longer for the security of a contract for next season for this whole mess to implode. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 12:20pm

  • A joined-up plan is essential and long overdue - 3 out of 4 regions can't afford to bump along from season to season on their present course, and Scarlets are only just getting by thanks to our chairman & benefactors delivering success on and off the pitch
  • No path is without risks or some friction
  • Magic pots of gold were not promised by Reset - only a more prioritised, needs-based distribution of available funds (which are growing, but not yet in line with wage inflation) for the immediate future - only when the folly of accelerated debt repayment for the Millennium Stadium will we see more representative WRU funding, backed by sponsors & investors attracted by an integrated plan & winning teams
  • Post-RWC19 will be a test for player 'loyalty' to the Wales shirt - it may be volatile, but it needs to be tried, if only to test the value of Wales caps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 12:23pm
the 60 cap thing is a carrot to encourage top players to stay here for x amount of years then have the choice to go abroad after that....however the other nations seem to offer more financial rewards to stay , tax breaks , testimonials etc we dont seem to do so much of them ever since the legendary ieuan evans gig 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

the 60 cap thing is a carrot to encourage top players to stay here for x amount of years then have the choice to go abroad after that....however the other nations seem to offer more financial rewards to stay , tax breaks , testimonials etc we dont seem to do so much of them ever since the legendary ieuan evans gig 
to me, 60 is way too low. a top player could still leave wales in their prime years.
 
To me a financial reward to go with milestone caps would be better.
So a 50 cap reward, 75 cap reward, 100 cap reward. so potentially, a player could receive 3 rewards if they stay in Wales and reach the 100 cap mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 1:50pm
Play for Wales, Play in Wales.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2019 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Play for Wales, Play in Wales.
agree with that too. Ireland have it as well as tax bonus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2019 at 1:18am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:


  • A joined-up plan is essential and long overdue - 3 out of 4 regions can't afford to bump along from season to season on their present course, and Scarlets are only just getting by thanks to our chairman & benefactors delivering success on and off the pitch
  • No path is without risks or some friction
  • Magic pots of gold were not promised by Reset - only a more prioritised, needs-based distribution of available funds (which are growing, but not yet in line with wage inflation) for the immediate future - only when the folly of accelerated debt repayment for the Millennium Stadium will we see more representative WRU funding, backed by sponsors & investors attracted by an integrated plan & winning teams
  • Post-RWC19 will be a test for player 'loyalty' to the Wales shirt - it may be volatile, but it needs to be tried, if only to test the value of Wales caps


I’m rejuvenated by the new trajectory and partnership building of the WRU.

Just that I feel they are re-hashing things within an old framework. They have a budget constraint, and competing with market rates that they can’t influence...so until they can compete I see no virtue in leveraging the value of a cap against that market force. There’s little chance it will have the desired impact, and could well accelerate departures as I said.

Fundamentally I’d love to see the ‘to play for Wales you must play in Wales’ track to a workable solution...restriction of earnings is unlikely to be a catalyst to attain that.

Just my view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2019 at 9:17am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Loyalty means nothing then, if all the better players leave Wales, then our regions will be no more than feeder clubs of the rich.

We must have all the players playing in Wales, we have fewer players than most, the last thing I want (and the WRU) is for the better players to be playing outside Wales.

We do not have the sugar daddys that England & Ireland have, we do not have the money that they have as well. We are punching above our weight, both as a country and regions.

We should abide by the rule, and never pick those players who have less than 60 caps.

I do feel very strong about this, and by the way the same would apply to any Scarlet who left. 

Lets put the future of the game first, not individuals regardless of how good they are.


Dai I understand your view but for instance do you really think that Wales would have come up with this scheme if someone like Faletau was short of his 60 caps? 


But they are sticking by it which is why I believe Rhys will be coming back to play in Wales. No fix about this at all is there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2019 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Rich (Bris) Rich (Bris) wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

Loyalty means nothing then, if all the better players leave Wales, then our regions will be no more than feeder clubs of the rich.

We must have all the players playing in Wales, we have fewer players than most, the last thing I want (and the WRU) is for the better players to be playing outside Wales.

We do not have the sugar daddys that England & Ireland have, we do not have the money that they have as well. We are punching above our weight, both as a country and regions.

We should abide by the rule, and never pick those players who have less than 60 caps.

I do feel very strong about this, and by the way the same would apply to any Scarlet who left. 

Lets put the future of the game first, not individuals regardless of how good they are.


Dai I understand your view but for instance do you really think that Wales would have come up with this scheme if someone like Faletau was short of his 60 caps? 


But they are sticking by it which is why I believe Rhys will be coming back to play in Wales. No fix about this at all is there?

Yes they are sticking to it at the moment as the only player affected is Rhys. Lets see what happens if Liam, Josh Adams & Francis refuse to return to Wales or guys like Rob Evans, Samson, Anscombe & Jake decide to move for the money. I do not understand why the WRU decided to take such a hard stance - why not copy the Irish system & make it abundantly clear that in all but exceptional cicrcumstances playing outside Wales means you do not play for Wales. As I have stated before this rule is meant to reward loyalty. Rhys has been far more loyal to Welsh rugby than either Faletau or Liam yet is penalised. Total nonsense in my opinion. 
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