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Rugby World Cup 2019

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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2019 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Very powerful performance by a formidable South Africa side. Think their size, power and speed really sets them apart at the moment. With pack dominance they run the game really well off 9, 10 and 15 plus have two incredibly dangerous wingers. I'm not sure if today puts last Sunday and how close we were in a different context, as I feel South Africa did employ different tactics then, but England were simply overpowered all across the park and could not get going at all against them. Well done to South Africa, they are definitely looking like a force again.

The SA 9 said they used the same tactics, but found more space out wide... it certainly put Wales's performance in a very good light, as we could have won that semi if the chips had fallen differently on a couple of ref decisions (SA were ever so slightly better than us, IMO) - today, England were never really in the game.

Unusually, I had been prepared before KO to support England if they employed the type of game that beat NZ... but they never had any front-foot dominance and so that didn't happen. As it played out, I'm so pleased that SA won, because most of the English removed their silver medals as they left the podium, which to me (and, probably, the Japanese) seemed ill-mannered and childish. (Eddie Jones didn't do this - not sure if he took it off later. He would have done better to shut up rather than respond to Gatland, though - Gats saw all too clearly that a big win v NZ might lead to the England players going into the final over-confident.)

Also, the words of the SA captain were gracious and considered - a class act unlike far too many of the losers.

Worthy winners, and Wales did us proud - a good RWC vintage.

Must have just done it a lot better than against us then but I felt there was less kicking today? Could be wrong and I think England spread the ball more than we did so maybe that's it. Think their up and unders and box kicks were a lot more effective today: they made a lot of yards at key moments. But penalties from breakdown and scrums were constant, maybe they upped their game further or maybe we were better than England on the day at this.

I've been reading on Kolisi and his story - makes me really happy for him and SA they won just for this.

Only one team in it today, England hung on till just before half time somehow but South Africa are worthy winners and clearly have a fantastic team ethos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2019 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Very powerful performance by a formidable South Africa side. Think their size, power and speed really sets them apart at the moment. With pack dominance they run the game really well off 9, 10 and 15 plus have two incredibly dangerous wingers. I'm not sure if today puts last Sunday and how close we were in a different context, as I feel South Africa did employ different tactics then, but England were simply overpowered all across the park and could not get going at all against them. Well done to South Africa, they are definitely looking like a force again.

The SA 9 said they used the same tactics, but found more space out wide... it certainly put Wales's performance in a very good light, as we could have won that semi if the chips had fallen differently on a couple of ref decisions (SA were ever so slightly better than us, IMO) - today, England were never really in the game.

Unusually, I had been prepared before KO to support England if they employed the type of game that beat NZ... but they never had any front-foot dominance and so that didn't happen. As it played out, I'm so pleased that SA won, because most of the English removed their silver medals as they left the podium, which to me (and, probably, the Japanese) seemed ill-mannered and childish. (Eddie Jones didn't do this - not sure if he took it off later. He would have done better to shut up rather than respond to Gatland, though - Gats saw all too clearly that a big win v NZ might lead to the England players going into the final over-confident.)

Also, the words of the SA captain were gracious and considered - a class act unlike far too many of the losers.

Worthy winners, and Wales did us proud - a good RWC vintage.

Must have just done it a lot better than against us then but I felt there was less kicking today? Could be wrong and I think England spread the ball more than we did so maybe that's it. Think their up and unders and box kicks were a lot more effective today: they made a lot of yards at key moments. But penalties from breakdown and scrums were constant, maybe they upped their game further or maybe we were better than England on the day at this.

I've been reading on Kolisi and his story - makes me really happy for him and SA they won just for this.

Only one team in it today, England hung on till just before half time somehow but South Africa are worthy winners and clearly have a fantastic team ethos.

Maybe we just countered them better? Certainly, they didn't mess up our scrum like they did England's.

However, I'm responding mainly to post a link to one of several reports on Kolisi, who comes from a very humble background and has done wonderfully well, in case people haven't read about him:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 10:43am
A final thought about how we missed our best chance of winning the World Cup. If Gatland was intent on playing a kick chase game then would he not have been far better off playing Jamie Roberts at 12. Carrying and defending he is still a better player than Hadleigh if creativity is going to be sacrificed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 11:49am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

A final thought about how we missed our best chance of winning the World Cup. If Gatland was intent on playing a kick chase game then would he not have been far better off playing Jamie Roberts at 12. Carrying and defending he is still a better player than Hadleigh if creativity is going to be sacrificed. 


That's true but I still depply regret the lack of ambition at 16-16 and we had the ball in their half. Its a world Cup final we were playing for not trying to hang on for a win in a wet and windy pro 14 fixture. Give it a bit of a go.....

But inspite of how close we were and how frustrating it all was, I still think our best chance was 2011 when we were undone not so much by the Warburton incident but by Priestland's injury in the last minutes of the quarter final against Ireland. If he had been fit, we would have won the semi final with 14 men and we would have beaten the ABs who were nearly destroyed by the pressure to win a home WC and were playing like drains. In that WC, Rhys was playing the rugby of the Gods- he never got back to that level after his injury but he would have carried us through the World Cup.

That said, this one could have been ours as well..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

A final thought about how we missed our best chance of winning the World Cup. If Gatland was intent on playing a kick chase game then would he not have been far better off playing Jamie Roberts at 12. Carrying and defending he is still a better player than Hadleigh if creativity is going to be sacrificed. 


That's true but I still depply regret the lack of ambition at 16-16 and we had the ball in their half. Its a world Cup final we were playing for not trying to hang on for a win in a wet and windy pro 14 fixture. Give it a bit of a go.....

But inspite of how close we were and how frustrating it all was, I still think our best chance was 2011 when we were undone not so much by the Warburton incident but by Priestland's injury in the last minutes of the quarter final against Ireland. If he had been fit, we would have won the semi final with 14 men and we would have beaten the ABs who were nearly destroyed by the pressure to win a home WC and were playing like drains. In that WC, Rhys was playing the rugby of the Gods- he never got back to that level after his injury but he would have carried us through the World Cup.

That said, this one could have been ours as well..

I'd also add there the fact that in the semi we lost Adam Jones. Had he been there I'd have fancied us to win some 'kickable' scrum penalties against the French even with a 7 man scrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 1:52pm
I think England got a bit overexcited and caught up in the hype with their performance in the semi final with all the talk of it being the greatest England performance ever, can argue all day long about whether NZ's performance was down to the pressure England put on them but in my opinion NZ were well below average and they're not as dominant as some of the previous NZ teams.
 
England probably underestimated Wales and as a result SA which is borderline cocky, Faf's post match interview summed it up a bit for me when he was asked if SA knew they had to play more against England to win, he said something like they played wider because they felt they could get more change there, England seemed to think they were too good to be targeted.
 
Everything went England's way this WC, virtually no injuries, an extra week off with a cancelled game and extra day off in the build up to the final, they just got beaten by the better team on the day, and arguable a better team over the course of the past season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 1:53pm
Patchell should have started the semi final imo
what exactly is biggar better at than patchell? goal kicking thats about it and with hapenny starting he could have kicked the goals. Patch is bigger quicker stronger better passer scores tries and kicks ot 35 yards further. what the heck were we scared of?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think England got a bit overexcited and caught up in the hype with their performance in the semi final with all the talk of it being the greatest England performance ever, can argue all day long about whether NZ's performance was down to the pressure England put on them but in my opinion NZ were well below average and they're not as dominant as some of the previous NZ teams.
 
England probably underestimated Wales and as a result SA which is borderline cocky, Faf's post match interview summed it up a bit for me when he was asked if SA knew they had to play more against England to win, he said something like they played wider because they felt they could get more change there, England seemed to think they were too good to be targeted.
 
Everything went England's way this WC, virtually no injuries, an extra week off with a cancelled game and extra day off in the build up to the final, they just got beaten by the better team on the day, and arguable a better team over the course of the past season.
matt dawsons column Friday "if you had to choose a world cup team with only players from England and south Africa you would pick 15 English players" I think the usual dose of arrogance had a little input to the final.Big smile
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 2:20pm
And then they moan when people take the p155 afterwards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think England got a bit overexcited and caught up in the hype with their performance in the semi final with all the talk of it being the greatest England performance ever, can argue all day long about whether NZ's performance was down to the pressure England put on them but in my opinion NZ were well below average and they're not as dominant as some of the previous NZ teams.
 
England probably underestimated Wales and as a result SA which is borderline cocky, Faf's post match interview summed it up a bit for me when he was asked if SA knew they had to play more against England to win, he said something like they played wider because they felt they could get more change there, England seemed to think they were too good to be targeted.
 
Everything went England's way this WC, virtually no injuries, an extra week off with a cancelled game and extra day off in the build up to the final, they just got beaten by the better team on the day, and arguable a better team over the course of the past season.
matt dawsons column Friday "if you had to choose a world cup team with only players from England and south Africa you would pick 15 English players" I think the usual dose of arrogance had a little input to the final.Big smile

Yes Nigel when I read that I thought what a stupid comment to make. Total arrogance as was their collective reaction to their medals. What is it about the English rugby fraternity? Compare that with the very understated & modest comments coming from Erasmus and his captain. England were badly beaten up and I think Gatland will be looking long and hard at their pack when it comes to Lions selections. It will be very interesting to see how Rhys Carre develops at Saracens. Both Vunipolas are not the players they were & may well struggle for Lions places. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think England got a bit overexcited and caught up in the hype with their performance in the semi final with all the talk of it being the greatest England performance ever, can argue all day long about whether NZ's performance was down to the pressure England put on them but in my opinion NZ were well below average and they're not as dominant as some of the previous NZ teams.
 
England probably underestimated Wales and as a result SA which is borderline cocky, Faf's post match interview summed it up a bit for me when he was asked if SA knew they had to play more against England to win, he said something like they played wider because they felt they could get more change there, England seemed to think they were too good to be targeted.
 
Everything went England's way this WC, virtually no injuries, an extra week off with a cancelled game and extra day off in the build up to the final, they just got beaten by the better team on the day, and arguable a better team over the course of the past season.

Very good comments - England got over-confident, and I was pleased Gatland was proved right when he said that the semi v NZ 'was England's final' - he was proved right, but Eddie Jones cracked that Gats should 'enjoy his 3rd place match' - so, hard cheese, Eddie! A well-deserved comedown.

As for NZ - even though they comfortably beat a much altered Wales, their line-out was pretty poor and would have cost them against a stronger team. Ken Owens was fantastic at the line-out during the tournament, BTW. NZ were some way below their usual standards. 

As for Wales - yes, maybe we could have won it had we got a late drop goal or penalty v SA (SA were slightly the better team, though) - but how many players would have been fit for the final? We might have ended up losing to England with so many injuries. We'll never know, so no point speculating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 3:41pm
I said before the final that England would struggle to match physicality of South Africa because they hadn't been involved in such a match as yet at the RWC. That type of match should have been the France match but alas it was called off.

South Africa did, through De Klerk & Du Toit, what Wales did to England by rushing out of defense stopping them getting wide. I can't recall hearing the England wingers being mentioned too much. Another thing I noticed was that the 2 South African wingers, Kolbe especially, literally bear-hugged the person they were tackling to ensure the ball didn't get off loaded. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think England got a bit overexcited and caught up in the hype with their performance in the semi final with all the talk of it being the greatest England performance ever, can argue all day long about whether NZ's performance was down to the pressure England put on them but in my opinion NZ were well below average and they're not as dominant as some of the previous NZ teams.
 
England probably underestimated Wales and as a result SA which is borderline cocky, Faf's post match interview summed it up a bit for me when he was asked if SA knew they had to play more against England to win, he said something like they played wider because they felt they could get more change there, England seemed to think they were too good to be targeted.
 
Everything went England's way this WC, virtually no injuries, an extra week off with a cancelled game and extra day off in the build up to the final, they just got beaten by the better team on the day, and arguable a better team over the course of the past season.
matt dawsons column Friday "if you had to choose a world cup team with only players from England and south Africa you would pick 15 English players" I think the usual dose of arrogance had a little input to the final.Big smile

I have zero interest in anything Matt Dawson had to say and am surprised anyone has. For what it's worth, I seriously doubt many grass roots England rugby fans would agree with that comment and it is pretty embarrassing reading for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2019 at 6:55pm
Some of the England players  were laughing and joking in the tunnel  before going out. They were way too relaxed.. How many Grand Slams have they lost at the final hurdle..
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