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Saracens docked 35 points...

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EJPT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

James Lowe was an unknown quantity,




25 tries in 52 super rugby appearances.
Not that impressive when your on a team loaded with new zealand talent playing dead rubbers against the sunwolves and the like. Leinster made a big offer but when you sign a player with Arthritis there is going to be concerns about longevity and ability to play in a slower tempo game therefore he is an unknown quantity, to say he was going to be capped as an all black is not certain either. Not all players transfer from super rugby to the northern hemisphere leagues exactly as they were. 

Really doesn’t compare to signing Liam Williams or Elliot Daley who are top drawer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crj89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

James Lowe was an unknown quantity,




25 tries in 52 super rugby appearances.
Not that impressive when your on a team loaded with new zealand talent playing dead rubbers against the sunwolves and the like. Leinster made a big offer but when you sign a player with Arthritis there is going to be concerns about longevity and ability to play in a slower tempo game therefore he is an unknown quantity, to say he was going to be capped as an all black is not certain either. Not all players transfer from super rugby to the northern hemisphere leagues exactly as they were. 

Really doesn’t compare to signing Liam Williams or Elliot Daley who are top drawer.


Yet McNicholl was on 16 tries in 39 games and on the New Zealand honours radar, so personally I think it's very impressive considering Lowe is known for much more than scoring tries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 2:30pm
McNichol signed for us and then had a dazzling season for Crusaders...what a buy.
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EJPT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 4:44pm
Besides the point, I’m making and yes Mcnicholl is class especially coming from Super rugby to pro 14 with what seemed like no offseason, I still feel his place is on the wing but who else can play fullback? 

Anyways you can pretend the signings Leinster have made are on the same level but they’re really not. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

[QUOTE=Gate12]

Does anyone know much about these investment companies like Faz Investments or Vunprop Ltd?

Wray is very much leaning on how much Saracens are safeguarding players post rugby by giving them future careers so it would be good to know a bit more about these companies.  
 


They are all in the public domain:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10348550/officers[/QUOTE]
 
 
I'm more interested in where the asset came from, where the liabilities are going and what wages/dividends/income taxes were paid.
 
An investment firm with only 1 director and 2 people with shares (Wray and Farrell) doesn't feel like it's on it's way to challenging Fidelity.


Edited by Gate12 - 07 November 2019 at 4:54pm
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EJPT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2019 at 5:11pm
Unfortunately you will only get the very basic balance sheet with these accounts as they are small entities they only have to file small or micro accounts with companies house; the balance sheet and notes to the accounts, profit and loss is not required.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2019 at 7:39am
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

James Lowe was an unknown quantity,




25 tries in 52 super rugby appearances.
Not that impressive when your on a team loaded with new zealand talent playing dead rubbers against the sunwolves and the like. Leinster made a big offer but when you sign a player with Arthritis there is going to be concerns about longevity and ability to play in a slower tempo game therefore he is an unknown quantity, to say he was going to be capped as an all black is not certain either. Not all players transfer from super rugby to the northern hemisphere leagues exactly as they were. 

Really doesn’t compare to signing Liam Williams or Elliot Daley who are top drawer.

I must admit I would take Lowe before Daly all day long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2019 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Besides the point, I’m making and yes Mcnicholl is class especially coming from Super rugby to pro 14 with what seemed like no offseason, I still feel his place is on the wing but who else can play fullback? 

Anyways you can pretend the signings Leinster have made are on the same level but they’re really not. 

Lee Halfpenny - if (as I sincerely hope) he recovers from his latest concussion. (I'm worried, TBH.)
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antietam1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2019 at 3:20pm
Leinster are not always able to Hang on to their players, Lost Sexton to Racing for a while.
The IRFU pushed Carbery to Munster for team Irelands benefit.
Leinster have people Like Lowe, Tomane and Fardy not exactly big Money current Galacticos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antietam1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2019 at 3:25pm
Exactly, Leinster and Munsters wins in the Heinken for the most part go to the IRFU, presume it's the same for Saracens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antietam1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2019 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Leinster’s notable signings in the last decade or so include: Sean Cronin, Robbie Henshaw, Joe Tomane, Scott Fardy, Jamison Gibson-Park, James Lowe, Zane Kirchner, Isa Nacewa, Richardt Strauss, Michael Bent, Isaac Boss, Ben Te’o, Leo Auva’a, Jimmy Gopperth, Lote Tuqiri, Heinke van der Merwe, Brad Thorn, Nathan Hines, Felipe Contempi, Rocky Elsom, Stan Wright etc.

I would argue that’s a comparable list of signings to Saracens in the last decade and they certainly weren’t there for the Guinness. This isn’t an insult of Leinster by the way. 
Cronin was a Munster reject, Henshaw was raised in Co Westmeath in Leinster, Scott Fardy signed from a small Japanese team, Isa Nacewa was unheralded with 10 minutes of international rugby, Kirchener was a jokeshop nobody Stan Wright was from the Cook islands.
Brad, Felipe,Rocky and Hines were essential to Leinsters early success.
The IRFU would not Let Hines stay on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Antietam1 Antietam1 wrote:

Scott Fardy signed from a small Japanese team


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 12:36am
Saracens continue to win, beating a Gloucester team that didn’t have so many players on World Cup duty.  Just goes to show the strength in depth of the Saracens whole squad, and what money can help you achieve.
Yes, they’ve been charged with breaking the wage cap rule for 5he the past 3 years and have been heavily fined and penalised for doing so, but surely there is a very strong likelihood that this current squad is costing more than the current wage cap allows, bearing in mind the quality players they have added this season.
We all know what’s going to happen, they will get their points reduction lowered on appeal and they will finish in mid table, so they will not really get punished and the other teams will not see the justice that they probably feel they should get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grammar School Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 2:20am
Yes, it is England after all, where money and influence really trumps principle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 8:40am
Originally posted by Antietam1 Antietam1 wrote:

Leinster are not always able to Hang on to their players, Lost Sexton to Racing for a while.
The IRFU pushed Carbery to Munster for team Irelands benefit.
Leinster have people Like Lowe, Tomane and Fardy not exactly big Money current Galacticos

I agree with you entirely. The young player pathway at Leinster is 2nd to none; the only one which comes close and from a very much smaller catchment is the Scarlets. Some on this forum do not agree that home grown talent contributing to on field success is any different to the likes of Toulon or Racing. I do not agree but we are all entitled to our views. 

I also agree with you about the signings. Lowe and Fardy are fine players but they are no better than we at the Scarlets have been able to sign recently - Jonny McNicholl & Blade Thomson for instance. In fact we have far more overseas players in our current squad than Leinster. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2019 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Saracens continue to win, beating a Gloucester team that didn’t have so many players on World Cup duty.  Just goes to show the strength in depth of the Saracens whole squad, and what money can help you achieve.
Yes, they’ve been charged with breaking the wage cap rule for 5he the past 3 years and have been heavily fined and penalised for doing so, but surely there is a very strong likelihood that this current squad is costing more than the current wage cap allows, bearing in mind the quality players they have added this season.
We all know what’s going to happen, they will get their points reduction lowered on appeal and they will finish in mid table, so they will not really get punished and the other teams will not see the justice that they probably feel they should get.

I understand your cynicism but I don't see the points deduction being reduced. Of far more interest to me is what changes they will make & of course be supervised in making to bring themselves in line with the rules. If they are just allowed to carry on regardless without cutting their salary levels it will have huge repurcussions for English rugby. The investment company CVC will have not been best pleased with the publicity surrounding their most recent acquisition and the pressure they bring will be enormous. 
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