Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > GENERAL RUGBY
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Saracens squad could be dismantled

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 15>
Author
Message
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 11:29am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

In all honesty there has never been a level playing field and I don't foresee one any time soon. 


Certainly not when one organisation owns 4 of the teams, and swaps players in and out of those 4 teams so they all collectively get better.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 22599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

they breached the salary cap and have let no one go
 
so either the players all agree to take a cut (ho ho ho)
 
or they'll have to get rid of a few
 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's
that's the attitude that has ruined the welsh premiership and local rugby.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13774
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

they breached the salary cap and have let no one go
 
so either the players all agree to take a cut (ho ho ho)
 
or they'll have to get rid of a few
 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's
 
The released players last season probably outweighed the inbound players cash wise, but you'd guess they're still over the cap.
 
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the cap they signed up to it. The European bit gets a bit messy, they fairly won a comp that they unfairly qualified for.
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 15810
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's

Isn't sport supposed to be a level playing field? Without salary caps you could have a sheikh buy an English club, spend a few hundred million and easily win everything. Whereas every other club without the same level of investment would have little to no chance.

Look at the NFL. It has a great system in place that has meant almost every one of the 32 teams has won the superbowl at some point. If the salary element is level, then it just comes down to coaching which is how it should be IMO.  

Clearly many don't think it should be a level playing field, and are happy for rugby to go down football's route of allowing immensely wealthy owners to sign up a huge number of star players.

Personally, I'm on your side - it's a bit bizarre that one of the better examples of 'levelling' the field should come from that bastion of red in tooth and claw capitalism - the USA - via one of the sports with the most absurdly well paid sportsmen anywhere - the NFL. Their system does indeed allow everyone to 'have a shot', unlike the Premiership in football (for example) - apart from the ultra-rare anomaly such as Leicester.
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Clearly many don't think it should be a level playing field, and are happy for rugby to go down football's route of allowing immensely wealthy owners to sign up a huge number of star players.


Like The Scarlets do?

Edited by KID A - 07 January 2020 at 1:58pm
Back to Top
Why View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 6403
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 2:23pm
In fairness to Saracens they have produced or identified yougsters who they have brought through. They have spent a fortune yes but mixed it with a very good development programme. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

they breached the salary cap and have let no one go
 
so either the players all agree to take a cut (ho ho ho)
 
or they'll have to get rid of a few
 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's
that's the attitude that has ruined the welsh premiership and local rugby.
 
But this is not local rugby, rugby made the choice to go professional
 
Therefore players get paid if sarries can afford to pay players a fortune good luck to them
 
short career get it when you can
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's

Isn't sport supposed to be a level playing field? Without salary caps you could have a sheikh buy an English club, spend a few hundred million and easily win everything. Whereas every other club without the same level of investment would have little to no chance.

Look at the NFL. It has a great system in place that has meant almost every one of the 32 teams has won the superbowl at some point. If the salary element is level, then it just comes down to coaching which is how it should be IMO.  
 
Not imo
 
professional sport is and always has been about  richer clubs  dominating.  look at the likes of real Madrid, juve and Bayern munich in their domestic leagues or wigan in rl when they had the most money.
 
 
Professional sport is not about everyone being the same imo  that is idealistic and belongs in the amateur era
 
why should talented sportsman have a limit put on what they can earn?
 
If a billionaire bought the scarlets would you object if we started bringing top class boks and all blacks?
 
 
btw the NFL for all it's alleged equality tends to have sides who dominate for periods
 
pats in the 2010
49rs in 80s (and Denver though they kept losing the superbowl) 
dallas and steelers in 70'#s
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 07 January 2020 at 3:05pm
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 13774
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 3:22pm

Before I start I should say I’m not even sure whether I agree with myself here, but it may be idealistic to think that if you remove any restrictions a natural order will emerge without having a long term impact on the success and sustainability of the sport itself, off the back of that you could then argue that if the sport fails then it’s had it chance, but the people in charge of the game are there to ensure it’s sustainable rather than put on a demonstration of pure sporting capitalism.

 

Rugby, and sport in general, is always fighting to get the right balance between sustainability, commercialism, competition and participation amongst other things and there isn’t a one size fits all for each country or sport.

 

I’ve got no idea what the answer is for Welsh, European or World rugby and I think pinning your colours to either end of the free for all or complete control spectrum would be very difficult to do. I’m happy with cautious tinkering while we find something that works because open season, in an extreme case, could see the end of professional rugby in Wales and the amateur game completely falling apart.

Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:


it may be idealistic to think that if you remove any restrictions a natural orderwill emerge without having a long term impact on the success and sustainability of the sport itself


Which is fine.

But for some teams to have a salary cap, playing against teams that haven't - is ludicrous, and just sums up rugby governance for me.
Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 9016
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 3:36pm
Some weeks ago when the Ospreys press conference was going pear shaped, Robert Davies threw into the ring the idea that there would be a B&I League in a matter of a few seasons.

Can't see it myself with so much else going on.

However, could the idea of a salary cap prove to be a stumbling block to the formation of such a League? There is no salary cap in the PRO14 to my knowledge, but if the intention is to form a B&I League, then there surely must be uniformity throughout that League?

So either the salary cap goes, or one will be imposed on the PRO14 sides that join the B&I League ?

I'm posting this a discussion point. Not sure what my views are at the moment.

Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26762
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Some weeks ago when the Ospreys press conference was going pear shaped, Robert Davies threw into the ring the idea that there would be a B&I League in a matter of a few seasons.

Can't see it myself with so much else going on.

However, could the idea of a salary cap prove to be a stumbling block to the formation of such a League? There is no salary cap in the PRO14 to my knowledge, but if the intention is to form a B&I League, then there surely must be uniformity throughout that League?

So either the salary cap goes, or one will be imposed on the PRO14 sides that join the B&I League ?

I'm posting this a discussion point. Not sure what my views are at the moment.



Yes. Simon Thomas on twitter suggests that the Irish are against a British and Irish League. So you have to ask yourself - why on earth would they be against forming a new competition which could net them significantly larger sums of money?

Salary caps, less control, having to play their top players more, more neutral referees, being in a league that isn't run from an office next to their IRFU office in Dublin etc.

Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 22599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

they breached the salary cap and have let no one go
 
so either the players all agree to take a cut (ho ho ho)
 
or they'll have to get rid of a few
 
to me salary caps are unfair anyhow if I can afford to pay my players a fortune what business is it of anybody else's
that's the attitude that has ruined the welsh premiership and local rugby.
 
But this is not local rugby, rugby made the choice to go professional
 
Therefore players get paid if sarries can afford to pay players a fortune good luck to them
 
short career get it when you can
because rugby becomes like society where there are the have's and the have nots.and local rugby is as guilty as anyone,in the list before xmas only 4 teams I think declared that they paid players do you think that is true?paying people more to play at lower levels than the natural stepping stones ti higher levels take's away the hunger and ambition in the game.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 6:06pm
fair play thAt is a load of rubbish. Sarries paying top class players a large wage is causing have and have not in society 😂😂. As your such an expert in local rugby (which all you seem to do is rundown) tell us how many are paying then and how much they pay?

Edited by RR1972 - 07 January 2020 at 6:08pm
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 22599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

fair play thAt is a load of rubbish. Sarries paying top class players a large wage is causing have and have not in society 😂😂. As your such an expert in local rugby (which all you seem to do is rundown) tell us how many are paying then and how much they pay?
obviously I don't know who is and who isn't but you could probably have a stab in the dark when players drop down 2 or 3 divisions and play for a club they have no connection with,where have I run down local rugby?the sarries have a billionaire owner=have,the welsh regions don't=have nots.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 11593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2020 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

fair play thAt is a load of rubbish. Sarries paying top class players a large wage is causing have and have not in society 😂😂. As your such an expert in local rugby (which all you seem to do is rundown) tell us how many are paying then and how much they pay?
obviously I don't know who is and who isn't but you could probably have a stab in the dark when players drop down 2 or 3 divisions and play for a club they have no connection with,where have I run down local rugby?the sarries have a billionaire owner=have,the welsh regions don't=have nots.
do leinster and munster have billionaire backers? Do exeter? We don’t live in a communist dictatorship people can pay people what they like in our society. Why are rugby players different

Edited by RR1972 - 07 January 2020 at 6:36pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 15>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.