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EJPT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 4:37pm
To say he’s lost all faith in Brad WIN or lose is a bit far, we’ve only lost to Toulon in this competition so far. 

I don’t think you could reshape our backs with the players available and it be massively better than what is picked. 

What changes realistically could be made: 
Asquith and Hughes are on par for me. Flip of a coin. I’d go with Asquith. 
Conbeer has been poor defensively, Cory looks to be a better defensive option, not got that magic step but by no means a poor attacker. 
Last change being fly half - i’m really not sure who our second best fly half is. 

Have Brads choices made me lose all faith - no 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

To say he’s lost all faith in Brad WIN or lose is a bit far, we’ve only lost to Toulon in this competition so far. 

I don’t think you could reshape our backs with the players available and it be massively better than what is picked. 

What changes realistically could be made: 
Asquith and Hughes are on par for me. Flip of a coin. I’d go with Asquith. 
Conbeer has been poor defensively, Cory looks to be a better defensive option, not got that magic step but by no means a poor attacker. 
Last change being fly half - i’m really not sure who our second best fly half is. 

Have Brads choices made me lose all faith - no 


Of course Dic has gone OTT saying he has lost faith but his assessment of the centre pairing being selected is spot on. Asquith & Hughes are on a par when playing 12 but not 13 where pace is a necessity. Baldwin is quicker than both, bigger than both and should be given the shirt in the absence of Fonotia. Dic has probably been deeply scarred by the way Pivac totally lost the plot once he was given the Welsh gig - as indeed I have been but I will not write this guy off just yet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 4:47pm
This centres situation can be predicted from the moment decided to leave Scott to the Ospreys. Of cuorse we are not living a drama but now we have to be close to the coach and be patience in young  players like Baldwin pr Knott. 
At the moment the real difficoult looks is find the right combinations  between the Players have 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Well during the 2011/12 season this was our centre line-up:

Rhodri Gomer-Davies
Gareth Maule
Adam Warren
Nic Reynolds
Craig Price
Scott Williams
Foxy

Pretty certain there would've been games when Foxy and Scott were injured... any of the other two up against a former Wales U20 Captain and a Grand Slam, Pro 14 winning, World Cup semi-finalist.

Pretty much the same for the next two seasons too. Don't need to go back 40 years. 


Maule and Waren were decent clubmen. Warren still is at the Dragons. Both should have won caps - or Maule deserved one I think for his play around that time. Decent solid option.

I would say Parkes on current form, Foxy as perenially injured, and the back up centres have left us in a bad position this season in midfield. Really bad. I'd agree that this season is the weakest I can think of in terms of centres, but a lot of that hinges on Parkes as first choice, unfortunately. Asquith is tidy, Steff and Corey are building and growing, and will eventually be as good as Maule and Warren were, at least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Well during the 2011/12 season this was our centre line-up:

Rhodri Gomer-Davies
Gareth Maule
Adam Warren
Nic Reynolds
Craig Price
Scott Williams
Foxy

Pretty certain there would've been games when Foxy and Scott were injured... any of the other two up against a former Wales U20 Captain and a Grand Slam, Pro 14 winning, World Cup semi-finalist.

Pretty much the same for the next two seasons too. Don't need to go back 40 years. 


Maule and Waren were decent clubmen. Warren still is at the Dragons. Both should have won caps - or Maule deserved one I think for his play around that time. Decent solid option.

I would say Parkes on current form, Foxy as perenially injured, and the back up centres have left us in a bad position this season in midfield. Really bad. I'd agree that this season is the weakest I can think of in terms of centres, but a lot of that hinges on Parkes as first choice, unfortunately. Asquith is tidy, Steff and Corey are building and growing, and will eventually be as good as Maule and Warren were, at least.
Steff is a step up from Warren and Maule 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 8:42pm
As for this game, genuinely think London Irish go in as favourites. What will the news of Saracens' almost guaranteed relegation mean - will 2 teams go down, or are LI basically safe now? Either way I think it's a hit out for them, a chance to test themselves and play in to form without the threat of missing out on a losing bonus point or the consequences of relegation. They're already out, at home, just before a break from the league. Unless LI have mentally checked out I think we will struggle to win let alone get the bonus point. A lot will rely on how the pack performs as we've gone for power and it looks good, but you never know. Tough game tomorrow, hope it's open as that gives us a chance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Well during the 2011/12 season this was our centre line-up:

Rhodri Gomer-Davies
Gareth Maule
Adam Warren
Nic Reynolds
Craig Price
Scott Williams
Foxy

Pretty certain there would've been games when Foxy and Scott were injured... any of the other two up against a former Wales U20 Captain and a Grand Slam, Pro 14 winning, World Cup semi-finalist.

Pretty much the same for the next two seasons too. Don't need to go back 40 years. 


Maule and Waren were decent clubmen. Warren still is at the Dragons. Both should have won caps - or Maule deserved one I think for his play around that time. Decent solid option.

I would say Parkes on current form, Foxy as perenially injured, and the back up centres have left us in a bad position this season in midfield. Really bad. I'd agree that this season is the weakest I can think of in terms of centres, but a lot of that hinges on Parkes as first choice, unfortunately. Asquith is tidy, Steff and Corey are building and growing, and will eventually be as good as Maule and Warren were, at least.
Steff is a step up from Warren and Maule 


Not in my opinion. Both much more solid, Maule in particular never looked out of place in Europe or the league. Not true for Steff yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raised By Peregos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 January 2020 at 9:20pm
I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diego6754 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 8:48am
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 

I just think 13 is a problem position across Wales. Cory is probably the best prospect around let's give him some minutes if it's Asquith, Parkes or Steff at 12 I'm not really bothered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 8:54am
Originally posted by diego6754 diego6754 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 

I just think 13 is a problem position across Wales. Cory is probably the best prospect around let's give him some minutes if it's Asquith, Parkes or Steff at 12 I'm not really bothered.

Totally agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 


I'm not talking about form. I'm saying they both consistently played better than Steff Hughes has done. If you're good one game and crap the next, that's not form, that's your inconsistency - and that's a trait of ability. Players like Chabal etc. - we call them inconsistent because they were. Form is a more general trend over weeks, not game to game, or even within a game itself. Consistency is very different to form.

On the point of Steff, he's not reached the level of Maule yet - a starting option for the Scarlets. This is really his breakthrough season and tbh he's not really pulling up trees. He shows flashes of ability and nice footballing touches, but is let down by the basics which Warren and Maule did so well.

I'm also giving Steff the benefit of him being young with development to come. Either way, I don't think he's a step up on Maule in particular, who had a good 2-3 years where he was playing at a higher standard than Steff's shown yet.

Steff's comfortably a step down on Parkes. Parkes has struggled balancing Wales duty with the Scarlets, his body seems to be breaking, and he's probably over the hill. 2-3 years ago he was playing really well. He's also played Super Rugby in his 20s and has a better rugby brain. I think you're trying to big Steff up a bit too much, no way would Steff Hughes get a place in Super Rugby based on his ability unfortunately unless we see a huge growth in the next 1-2 seasons.

I'd say the centre options are about equal, with our starting options worse now than back then, but a bit more quality in depth (Asquith, Fonotia).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 3:03pm
Having just watched the Pau v Leicester game, with Tuilagi at 13, you can see what we're missing in Wales with midfielders. They really need to be tough, physical players first and foremost, and we really aren't producing them. We've got lots of decent footballers who string the play together quite well - a bit like Andrew Bishop, Ashley Beck, Cory Allen etc. - but go to absolute sh1te when they're up against a physical team. That's why the Welsh centres are Kiwis - Parkes and Haloholo.

We have to stop seeing wing and centre as one and the same and start putting some players who would be tempted by the back row in to the centres when they're in their teens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 


I'm not talking about form. I'm saying they both consistently played better than Steff Hughes has done. If you're good one game and crap the next, that's not form, that's your inconsistency - and that's a trait of ability. Players like Chabal etc. - we call them inconsistent because they were. Form is a more general trend over weeks, not game to game, or even within a game itself. Consistency is very different to form.

On the point of Steff, he's not reached the level of Maule yet - a starting option for the Scarlets. This is really his breakthrough season and tbh he's not really pulling up trees. He shows flashes of ability and nice footballing touches, but is let down by the basics which Warren and Maule did so well.

I'm also giving Steff the benefit of him being young with development to come. Either way, I don't think he's a step up on Maule in particular, who had a good 2-3 years where he was playing at a higher standard than Steff's shown yet.

Steff's comfortably a step down on Parkes. Parkes has struggled balancing Wales duty with the Scarlets, his body seems to be breaking, and he's probably over the hill. 2-3 years ago he was playing really well. He's also played Super Rugby in his 20s and has a better rugby brain. I think you're trying to big Steff up a bit too much, no way would Steff Hughes get a place in Super Rugby based on his ability unfortunately unless we see a huge growth in the next 1-2 seasons.

I'd say the centre options are about equal, with our starting options worse now than back then, but a bit more quality in depth (Asquith, Fonotia).
Have you even seen Steff Hughes play? You say “good one game and crap the next”. Steff is one of the most consistent players in the squad
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 6:10pm
Yes, I've seen him play, obviously. I think sometimes he's effective, sometimes he looks out of his depth. Hence you have chat here about him starting for Wales, and then the next criticising his pace, strength, reading of the game, and captaincy. It's not quite 'one good game and crap the next' because I didn't say that's what he's like, did I, but just trying to demonstrate the point about form v consistency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raised By Peregos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2020 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 


I'm not talking about form. I'm saying they both consistently played better than Steff Hughes has done. If you're good one game and crap the next, that's not form, that's your inconsistency - and that's a trait of ability. Players like Chabal etc. - we call them inconsistent because they were. Form is a more general trend over weeks, not game to game, or even within a game itself. Consistency is very different to form.

On the point of Steff, he's not reached the level of Maule yet - a starting option for the Scarlets. This is really his breakthrough season and tbh he's not really pulling up trees. He shows flashes of ability and nice footballing touches, but is let down by the basics which Warren and Maule did so well.

I'm also giving Steff the benefit of him being young with development to come. Either way, I don't think he's a step up on Maule in particular, who had a good 2-3 years where he was playing at a higher standard than Steff's shown yet.

Steff's comfortably a step down on Parkes. Parkes has struggled balancing Wales duty with the Scarlets, his body seems to be breaking, and he's probably over the hill. 2-3 years ago he was playing really well. He's also played Super Rugby in his 20s and has a better rugby brain. I think you're trying to big Steff up a bit too much, no way would Steff Hughes get a place in Super Rugby based on his ability unfortunately unless we see a huge growth in the next 1-2 seasons.

I'd say the centre options are about equal, with our starting options worse now than back then, but a bit more quality in depth (Asquith, Fonotia).

The discussion with Dic was about the current set of centres being the weakest and I don’t believe that.  No-one mentioned form until you said “I would say Parkes on current form”… so you did bring form into it whether you were “talking about form” or not. 


The lecture on the difference between consistency and form wasn’t needed. We all know. You may well be “saying they both consistently played better than Steff Hughes has done.” But it’s the first time anyone has mentioned consistency too, whereas you did mention form, so to suggest someone else is confusing the two things is almost like having an argument with yourself.


Pedantry aside, we clearly view players differently and that’s OK. I don’t think Maule was anything special, and we shipped Warren to the Dragons. I agree with Scarletnut, and the opposite to you… Steff’s strengths ARE his consistency and his ability to do the basics well. He’s not a flash player, especially strong or quick but I believe he does read the game very well, is a very intelligent player and has Captained the team well for a young(ish) man thrust into the role. I don’t really get all the criticism of him given we’ve had a decent record of wins this season and he’s played virtually every minute. You even say that Maule was a “decent solid option” as in he had nothing particularly special about him either, so I don’t understand how you can actually say he’s so superior unless you really don’t rate Steff which is your opinion and totally fine.


Just to refer back to the initial discussion, it was about weakest set of centres… so this season, Foxy and Parkes would be first choice with Fonotia and Steff back up, then Baldwin and Asquith after that, up against Foxy and Scott first, Maule and Warren second and then two of Gomer-Davies / Reynolds / Craig Price (don’t even remember him) third.


So, thought experiment, taking everyone on their best day, I know which six I would take. And actually I’d arguably even take Parkes and Foxy as my first choice out of them all over Scott and Foxy just because Parkes is a more natural 12. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2020 at 7:37am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

I've got nothing against Maule and Warren, as you say, solid clubmen... Maule had a hot moment when he could've been capped but he never had the all-round game to be stay at the top. 

You're bringing form into it rather than just overall ability. You can't base it on form as I'm sure Maule and Warren et al had awful periods too. 

I would say the current centre group: Foxy, Parkes, Fonotia, Asquith, Hughes, Baldwin is stronger than that one I listed before overall. 3 internationals, a sevens international, two Wales U20 stars including a Captain.

Hughes is a step up from Maule and Warren, and Parkes, regardless of current form, is definitely a better player than them too. 


I'm not talking about form. I'm saying they both consistently played better than Steff Hughes has done. If you're good one game and crap the next, that's not form, that's your inconsistency - and that's a trait of ability. Players like Chabal etc. - we call them inconsistent because they were. Form is a more general trend over weeks, not game to game, or even within a game itself. Consistency is very different to form.

On the point of Steff, he's not reached the level of Maule yet - a starting option for the Scarlets. This is really his breakthrough season and tbh he's not really pulling up trees. He shows flashes of ability and nice footballing touches, but is let down by the basics which Warren and Maule did so well.

I'm also giving Steff the benefit of him being young with development to come. Either way, I don't think he's a step up on Maule in particular, who had a good 2-3 years where he was playing at a higher standard than Steff's shown yet.

Steff's comfortably a step down on Parkes. Parkes has struggled balancing Wales duty with the Scarlets, his body seems to be breaking, and he's probably over the hill. 2-3 years ago he was playing really well. He's also played Super Rugby in his 20s and has a better rugby brain. I think you're trying to big Steff up a bit too much, no way would Steff Hughes get a place in Super Rugby based on his ability unfortunately unless we see a huge growth in the next 1-2 seasons.

I'd say the centre options are about equal, with our starting options worse now than back then, but a bit more quality in depth (Asquith, Fonotia).
Have you even seen Steff Hughes play? You say “good one game and crap the next”. Steff is one of the most consistent players in the squad

Good question Scarletnut - I have watched Steff in every game this season and the only game he was anywhere near crap was Edinburgh. He was in very good company that day with 14 others. 
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