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EJPT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 12:21pm
Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 
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Jones2004 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Even with our poor start to the season we still have the same number of points as the Blues, who are second in our conference (Connaught have two games in hand but would still be close to us). Of course major improvements are required but I do believe it should be emphasised that we are by no means out of contention so far (let’s hope that’s still the case in a few weeks).

And how many wins can you realistically see us getting in our next 4 games?
I said in my post that major improvements are required, and if I’m honest I see us struggling in the next few games. All I was saying is that IF we do manage to turn things around, we are not out of touch from the play offs YET.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Even with our poor start to the season we still have the same number of points as the Blues, who are second in our conference (Connaught have two games in hand but would still be close to us). Of course major improvements are required but I do believe it should be emphasised that we are by no means out of contention so far (let’s hope that’s still the case in a few weeks).

And how many wins can you realistically see us getting in our next 4 games?
I said in my post that major improvements are required, and if I’m honest I see us struggling in the next few games. All I was saying is that IF we do manage to turn things around, we are not out of touch from the play offs YET.

Depends if the play offs are going to be top 2 from each conference or 3 I guess. At this point in time Munster & Connacht seem light years ahead of the rest with the Blues & Edinburgh ahead of us so even 3rd may be beyond us if things don't improve. It would be a little more encouraging if we were playing well and losing to a better team but our past three games have been some of the worst performances I have seen for many years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.

 Really interesting figures  and as you say we should put this into the mix before jumping in and condemning everyone. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.

You know what they say about statistics. If you think 91% means our scrum is good then I would think again. We have been given a going over by Edinburgh and been dodgy against Benetton & Zebre who are missing as many if not more front rowers as us. As for tries conceded well lets revisit that after the next few games shall we. Here is another interesting stat scored 3 tries in 5 games, another won 2 from 5 - what will supporters say if/when that stat becomes 2/9. I don't need stats to tell me the team is playing poorly - I can see that myself all too painfully. We, as supporters, do our team a disservice by not saying it as it is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Even with our poor start to the season we still have the same number of points as the Blues, who are second in our conference (Connaught have two games in hand but would still be close to us). Of course major improvements are required but I do believe it should be emphasised that we are by no means out of contention so far (let’s hope that’s still the case in a few weeks).

And how many wins can you realistically see us getting in our next 4 games?
We played badly against Benetton and Zebre and won, badly against Glasgow and lost with 13 men on the pitch, badly against Edinburgh and narrowly lost, and ok against Munster and seemingly cruising until the meltown.

We're due a good game and when it comes, someone is going to get a good old fashioned trousers down spanking.

I fancy we will get 8 t0 10 points from our next 4 games. And before anyone askes which games - we should target our home game against Leinster for sure and we are capable of beating Ospreys.  In fact, on our day and with a fair wind, we could beat any of the 4 teams to come - we're due a good game.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.
If you are disputing the fact our defence and scrums are bad does that mean you think they are average or good? Do you think what you have seen is good enough then, I don’t. 

You can concede 0 tries and still lose games. Discipline and defence go hand in hand. 

As for winning your own scrums, its easy, just ping it back to the number 8 on the put in. No such thing as a straight put in these days. Its when good teams keep it in the scrum we shoot up or fall down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.
 
 
 
 
You make a valid point re our defence and it's stats , the defence  is looking decent and your right to point that out .
 
However  our points scored and trys scored is dreadful, as is our back play in general tbh
 
Another  factual comment is we have played 5 games and scored what 5 trys? pretty dreadful reading   that.
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 10 November 2020 at 3:36pm
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.


Mmm. There's a short term gig for you in the White House mate.

The Pr0 14 website tends to suggest EJPT isn't way off, neither are you factually, it says...(12 teams)

Points scored -11th
Tries scored -12th
Offloads-8th
Meters gained -7th
Defenders beaten -7th
Clean breaks -4th
Tackle success-8th
Tackles missed-7th
Turnovers lost-4th
Yellow cards -1st (best-wehey!)
Red cards -12th ( worst...boooo)
Penalties conceded -12th
Scrum offences -12th
Lineout offences -2nd (v good)
Scrums won (9th...91% though :))

Our front row players ( all of them pretty much) pens against are not great...(league standings)
1st - Rob Evans (9)
4th - Javen Sebastien (6)
5th - Phil Price (5)
18th - Werner Kruger and Ryan Elias ( 4 each)
35th - Wyn Jones (3)

31 front row penalties in 5 games doesn't reflect all that well on the players, or Franks particularly.

Fixing our front row discipline would seem to be a priority and a quick route to the loot.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:08pm
We are missing 15 or 16 players who would be ahead of nearly all of the players we are now expecting to win games.  I would suspect only Leinster are without as many players but they are by a mile the best squad in the Pro14.  Our fellow Welsh Regions are not as badly affected and they are getting beaten as well.
We are left with a very thin, young inexperienced squad to carry on.
Someone commented on the size of our backline on Sunday being the smallest ever put out by the Scarlets, this puts us at a huge disadvantage in trying to get over the gainline and being able to defend high balls and big centres running at us in midfield.
All in all we are doing ok at the moment, hopefully when the current squad has played together for a few more games we will look more like a team.
This is a season for development in my opinion and performance is more important than results.
Keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:12pm
I think it was Carwyn who said "Rugby is a thinking game" (no pun intended) Perhaps at the time he was having a sly dig at those who were contrasting "soccer- a game for gentlemen plaid by hooligans and rugby - a game for hooligans played by gentlemen (only in the English upper-middle classes)
Anyway, I digress, it's the thinking bit which has gone astray with us recently. We have used quite a variety of young, inexperienced players in important positions, who possibly haven't had the confidence to over-rule coach imposed tactics that the opposition were easily countering and taking advantage of. In situations like these it becomes more important for the likes of McNicholl, Asquith, Steff Evs, etc to take the initiative. That being said, the coaches are close enough to the play to change the plan/emphasis as the need arises as should have happened when the Zebre blitz defence made a mockery of our slow-motion attempts to move the ball out wide.
As for the scrum, I think that on some occasions opposition props actually managed to fool the ref into penalising us, even though our players tried their best to explain to him that this was what was going on, and how Krugger managed to get a yellow card at his second scrum is amazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Even with our poor start to the season we still have the same number of points as the Blues, who are second in our conference (Connaught have two games in hand but would still be close to us). Of course major improvements are required but I do believe it should be emphasised that we are by no means out of contention so far (let’s hope that’s still the case in a few weeks).

And how many wins can you realistically see us getting in our next 4 games?
We played badly against Benetton and Zebre and won, badly against Glasgow and lost with 13 men on the pitch, badly against Edinburgh and narrowly lost, and ok against Munster and seemingly cruising until the meltown.

We're due a good game and when it comes, someone is going to get a good old fashioned trousers down spanking.

I fancy we will get 8 t0 10 points from our next 4 games. And before anyone askes which games - we should target our home game against Leinster for sure and we are capable of beating Ospreys.  In fact, on our day and with a fair wind, we could beat any of the 4 teams to come - we're due a good game.

I sincerely hope you’re right 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Even with our poor start to the season we still have the same number of points as the Blues, who are second in our conference (Connaught have two games in hand but would still be close to us). Of course major improvements are required but I do believe it should be emphasised that we are by no means out of contention so far (let’s hope that’s still the case in a few weeks).

And how many wins can you realistically see us getting in our next 4 games?
We played badly against Benetton and Zebre and won, badly against Glasgow and lost with 13 men on the pitch, badly against Edinburgh and narrowly lost, and ok against Munster and seemingly cruising until the meltown.

We're due a good game and when it comes, someone is going to get a good old fashioned trousers down spanking.

I fancy we will get 8 t0 10 points from our next 4 games. And before anyone askes which games - we should target our home game against Leinster for sure and we are capable of beating Ospreys.  In fact, on our day and with a fair wind, we could beat any of the 4 teams to come - we're due a good game.

Come on now Rob have you been sneaking a quick snort on another one of your zoom calls!!!!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.
 
 
 
 
You make a valid point re our defence and it's stats , the defence  is looking decent and your right to point that out .
 
However  our points scored and trys scored is dreadful, as is our back play in general tbh
 
Another  factual comment is we have played 5 games and scored what 5 trys? pretty dreadful reading   that.
 
 

Not quite as good as that RR one try against Glasgow, another against Benetton & two against Zebre making Samson our joint top try scorer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2020 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Our discipline is woeful, our defence is bad, our scrums are shocking and our coaches selections and substitutions have been poor. They need to realise and fix these issues pronto. 


We've conceded the least tries in the league (with a fair few teams having played less games) and we've conceded the least points in our conference, we've won 91% of our scrums and are 3rd in penalties gained through scrums in the league.

Coaching and substitution is opinions.

About the only thing that's factually correct there is that our discipline is terrible, worst in the league.

Not arguing that we're playing poorly and that there aren't a lot of questions to be asked but it always helps to keep it comments roughly aligned with the reality.


Mmm. There's a short term gig for you in the White House mate.

The Pr0 14 website tends to suggest EJPT isn't way off, neither are you factually, it says...(12 teams)

Points scored -11th
Tries scored -12th
Offloads-8th
Meters gained -7th
Defenders beaten -7th
Clean breaks -4th
Tackle success-8th
Tackles missed-7th
Turnovers lost-4th
Yellow cards -1st (best-wehey!)
Red cards -12th ( worst...boooo)
Penalties conceded -12th
Scrum offences -12th
Lineout offences -2nd (v good)
Scrums won (9th...91% though :))

Our front row players ( all of them pretty much) pens against are not great...(league standings)
1st - Rob Evans (9)
4th - Javen Sebastien (6)
5th - Phil Price (5)
18th - Werner Kruger and Ryan Elias ( 4 each)
35th - Wyn Jones (3)

31 front row penalties in 5 games doesn't reflect all that well on the players, or Franks particularly.

Fixing our front row discipline would seem to be a priority and a quick route to the loot.


There's plenty of things we need to fix no doubt, my point was more around picking the right ones to have a decent debate. 

The numbers suggest to me that the defensive structure and work rate is very good but there's a lack of patience and we're going after big hits, trying to disrupt their ball and going for turnovers at the wrong times and getting on the wrong side of refs, there's obviously a technical aspect to it too with youngsters or players trying to make a statement.

Don't think it's any coincidence that the multi phase attacks have looked better when blade, cubby and jac Morgan on the weekend pop up in the wider channels, think we need to see a lot more of that and personally I'd like to see more of Asquith, Morgan, conbeer, homer and costellow, I also like having Dan jones in the 23, just got that competitive edge I like, he very visibly doesn't like losing.

My biggest frustration with getting some momentum is forwards taking the ball static and always off 9, most of the more dynamic teams have forwards hitting the ball flat, at pace and off 9, 10 and 12.

Having a load of players doesn't help but you look at leinster whoever they bring in plays the same way. 
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