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Scarlets-Ospreys Plan - Some facts

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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 5:31pm
Just underlining the dependency on benefactors really.

By the same token, Rob Davies could bankroll the O’s for a very long time...could...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Just underlining the dependency on benefactors really.

By the same token, Rob Davies could bankroll the O’s for a very long time...could...

How long Wil ? I know that he received £10 million when the Swans sold to the Americans.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2019 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

It's over for now but, as a very wise man keeps telling me, you can't hide from the numbers indefinitely.

Chickens will come home to roost in Swansea (Cardiff, too) sooner or later, in Swansea sooner, I'll wager. They're due to post their finances to Companies House by 31/3 - let's see if they do that, or delay and take another fine. Tick, tock...

Our recruitment is pretty much done - might be a few swings & roundabouts, but I believe there'll be more good news than any other kind after 6Ns. #Tnewsdays will soon be here again! Cool
nobby,you really are coming across as the kid in school who had matching socks,trousers without holes and the best sweets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2019 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

It's over for now but, as a very wise man keeps telling me, you can't hide from the numbers indefinitely.

Chickens will come home to roost in Swansea (Cardiff, too) sooner or later, in Swansea sooner, I'll wager. They're due to post their finances to Companies House by 31/3 - let's see if they do that, or delay and take another fine. Tick, tock...

Our recruitment is pretty much done - might be a few swings & roundabouts, but I believe there'll be more good news than any other kind after 6Ns. #Tnewsdays will soon be here again! Cool


Great news on retention and recruitment.

I don’t find any sanctuary in the finances commentary. We are dependent on benefactors.

Over the last 4 years ( to fiscal year end 2017) we have posted losses of just under £5.0m, in the same period the Ospreys have posted losses of £0.25m.

In that case, I'm really baffled as to why they are in trouble - unless the losses as posted are the result of 'creative accounting', and don't reflect the reality?

I'm not a businessman or a politician, so I'd be glad if anyone out there can make sense of this!

(and a reminder: I hope the Os, and our derby matches, survive this mess).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2019 at 12:39pm
If the Ospreys accounting is creative then that's the only facet of their game that is. Perhaps, if they played their accountants at 9, 10 we might see an end to the boring and predictable drudgery that we have now become used to and their backs might get an occasional pass or two before the end of a match. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2019 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

It's over for now but, as a very wise man keeps telling me, you can't hide from the numbers indefinitely.

Chickens will come home to roost in Swansea (Cardiff, too) sooner or later, in Swansea sooner, I'll wager. They're due to post their finances to Companies House by 31/3 - let's see if they do that, or delay and take another fine. Tick, tock...

Our recruitment is pretty much done - might be a few swings & roundabouts, but I believe there'll be more good news than any other kind after 6Ns. #Tnewsdays will soon be here again! Cool


Great news on retention and recruitment.

I don’t find any sanctuary in the finances commentary. We are dependent on benefactors.

Over the last 4 years ( to fiscal year end 2017) we have posted losses of just under £5.0m, in the same period the Ospreys have posted losses of £0.25m.


In that case, I'm really baffled as to why they are in trouble - unless the losses as posted are the result of 'creative accounting', and don't reflect the reality?

I'm not a businessman or a politician, so I'd be glad if anyone out there can make sense of this!

(and a reminder: I hope the Os, and our derby matches, survive this mess).


It's not about fewer losses = more stability. It's about having rich people to cover those losses. Bristol rugby lose hundreds of thousands each year, but have a billionaire paying for those losses.

If you don't have anybody paying to cover the losses then you're going to go out of business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 1:13am
It’s the only part of this last couple of weeks that troubles me now that our region remains intact as it’s original entity.

No doubt that the Ospreys leadership ( benefactors) have been like ducks on ice in recent weeks, the underlying narrative is they have lost either the desire or no longer have the finances to keep the Ospreys trading. The change of chairmanship to be Rob Davies has signalled a change of direction, whether that’s deep rooted and has longevity, only time will tell.

However, and I don’t mean to compare the leaderships in this ( we are fortunate to have some stellar guys in the Scarlets leadership group) in theory we are just as vulnerable, as we depend/depended on benefactors to trade.

I always feel uncomfortable when I read random commentary that implies we are somehow exempt from the same possible outcome as the O’s. We’ve come a very long way in 7 or 8 years, but I do recall a £1.7m injection from a new benefactor effectively keeping us solvent at the beginning of that cycle.

To that end, the Scarlets have systematically followed what was agreed by all parties in terms of benchmarking our costs, neutralising benefactor investment, improving income streams etc. We are invested in the last step, which is to capture the extra slab of funding that comes available from the WRU when all regions do the same and/or reduce by 1.

Smart from us as the end game we see is sustainability.

Edited by Wil Chips - 10 March 2019 at 1:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 7:51am
Thanks for those comments - it makes the situation a bit easier to understand!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 8:24am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

If the Ospreys accounting is creative then that's the only facet of their game that is. Perhaps, if they played their accountants at 9, 10 we might see an end to the boring and predictable drudgery that we have now become used to and their backs might get an occasional pass or two before the end of a match. 


They beat us playing 10 man rugby 🙈
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

It’s the only part of this last couple of weeks that troubles me now that our region remains intact as it’s original entity.

No doubt that the Ospreys leadership ( benefactors) have been like ducks on ice in recent weeks, the underlying narrative is they have lost either the desire or no longer have the finances to keep the Ospreys trading. The change of chairmanship to be Rob Davies has signalled a change of direction, whether that’s deep rooted and has longevity, only time will tell.

However, and I don’t mean to compare the leaderships in this ( we are fortunate to have some stellar guys in the Scarlets leadership group) in theory we are just as vulnerable, as we depend/depended on benefactors to trade.

I always feel uncomfortable when I read random commentary that implies we are somehow exempt from the same possible outcome as the O’s. We’ve come a very long way in 7 or 8 years, but I do recall a £1.7m injection from a new benefactor effectively keeping us solvent at the beginning of that cycle.

To that end, the Scarlets have systematically followed what was agreed by all parties in terms of benchmarking our costs, neutralising benefactor investment, improving income streams etc. We are invested in the last step, which is to capture the extra slab of funding that comes available from the WRU when all regions do the same and/or reduce by 1.

Smart from us as the end game we see is sustainability.
What you say there is true up to a point Cen. There are more than whispers that the “extra slab of funding”, which was NOT dependent on losing a South Wales region, appeared to slip further into the distance as each step was completed. This is possibly why Reset has imploded. Some of the regions, including Os and CBL, lost faith that there was any quid pro quo for their own governance and financial reforms.
It’s a little worrying to me, from what I have heard 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 12:19pm
Interesting insight, thanks.

Yes that would the mockers on things a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 12:26pm
Yes very interesting. This whole Project Reset started with me being quite optimistic that we, being seen as an ambitious, well run region, could expect to see our funding improved. I am afraid that recent events have totally destroyed that optimism and I am now reduced to feeling relieved that we are still alive to fight another day. None of us should consider any sort of triumphalism when it comes to the Ospreys. Every region is fighting for its future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 12:39pm
Neil Fissler in the Rugby Paper reported this morning that Foxy is talking to Leicester who want him to replace Manu Tuilagi. Foxy is under contract so would require a transfer fee. Also reporting that Tom Price has signed for Exeter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Neil Fissler in the Rugby Paper reported this morning that Foxy is talking to Leicester who want him to replace Manu Tuilagi. Foxy is under contract so would require a transfer fee. Also reporting that Tom Price has signed for Exeter
foxy would go down in my estimation if he left us for a 2nd time he left us last time after being appointed captain,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Neil Fissler in the Rugby Paper reported this morning that Foxy is talking to Leicester who want him to replace Manu Tuilagi. Foxy is under contract so would require a transfer fee. Also reporting that Tom Price has signed for Exeter


Tom Price makes sense but Foxy does not. Fair play to go TO Leicester if you have given up on life but surely after his last stint away he knows what side his bread is buttered on, he'd be playing in between the six nations games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2019 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by henry_winkler henry_winkler wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Neil Fissler in the Rugby Paper reported this morning that Foxy is talking to Leicester who want him to replace Manu Tuilagi. Foxy is under contract so would require a transfer fee. Also reporting that Tom Price has signed for Exeter


Tom Price makes sense but Foxy does not. Fair play to go TO Leicester if you have given up on life but surely after his last stint away he knows what side his bread is buttered on, he'd be playing in between the six nations games.

Foxy is 31 next month, so is towards the end of a glittering career. He should bear in mind that he'll be well looked after by us. Should he go, then there is the danger that he'll get flogged and have to play during shallow weeks in 6N. Tomos Francis and Young and Josh Adams have had to. 

Bearing in mind the serious nature of the injury that cost him almost the entirety of last season, he has to carefully consider where his best interests lie, and try and look beyond the pay cheque.

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