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BlackwoodScarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.

Pity the other Arab states don't care about the Palestinians nor do the so called leaders of Palestine
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form


Edited by RR1972 - 02 July 2020 at 4:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 9:05am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.

The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system. 

But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that!
"We're thrown to the wolves in the minds of our enemies." - unknown philosopher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 10:48am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.

The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system. 

But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that!

Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed?  Are they really that out of touch? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 11:06am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:


Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed?  Are they really that out of touch? 

Not possible, except I can see that there's worse out there - US, China, Russia being three clear examples!

Yes, it is strange isn't it? It suggests either he didn't check with anyone or, if he did, ignored them. Or that it was a deliberate obvious lie designed by number 10 to well, achieve what exactly? Further break trust, encourage people to break lockdown? The first seems more likely if we think DC holds power over the PM which the lack of any disciplinary action would support. The second seems more like a conspiracy theory but we do know DC advocated a herd mentality approach. There's a third option: it's actually true but this seems very unlikely.
"We're thrown to the wolves in the minds of our enemies." - unknown philosopher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

exactly why no one can ever fully commit to any party imo the sheer amount of bias self interest double standards and hypocrisy is off the charts. Now with algorhythms, right wing media, left wing university lecturers and PC state tv, all camps have become more extreme and more encamped. They all close their ears, repeat their talking points and name call each other, usually with accusations of bigotry and sexism. This means no negotiation no compromise you agreements. The senate is a perfect example of the damage this stagnation causes, total breakdown in communication leads to a breakdown in society. 

As someone here mentioned about blair, before he became bush warmongering poodle, he did manage a peace agreement in Ireland all of which requered months and months of listening , compromise , communication, negotiation, collaboration. All words that have disappeared from our political vocabulary.
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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