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PearlJam View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

I think you will find its the left who dont like debate

How so in the context of the UK? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 6:02pm
Surely all but the most one-eyed Brexiteers know that the European Union will ultimately have the upper hand in the negotiations and are hardly going to be conciliatory and favourable towards the UK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

What about these papers the guardian, the mirror , the independent

Their combined readership is far below that of the papers owned by tax-dodging Tory supporters. It baffles me that the Mail - a paper that supported Hitler in the 1930s - is so popular. I suppose it has drifted slightly to the right since then...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Or are you just sick of politics and elections? Post-Brexit and Trump I am pretty disillusioned by it all in truth and I though Brexit had some nasty stuff on both sides of the debate.

What I'm sick of is the Tory party attitude that debate needs to be silenced and we all need to "muck in" behind Brexit "in the national interest". Theresa May dislikes debate (no parliament input on the final Brexit terms and now she's pushed a snap election while the opposition is at it's weakest to get a mandate and a majority to push through extreme Tory policies) and is probably the most authoritarian politician of our generation. 

This is the loudest, silent coup I've known. It has echos of Erdowan in Turkey and her embarrassing Minister's (Johnson's failures on Syria and Truss miserable support for the "enemies of the people" / Judges during the Brexit High Court ruling) are bordering on incompetent.

You've got to hope Corbyn can pull it out of the bag. I usually vote Lib Dem, but we've got a Labour candidate (Paul Flynn) who could hold his seat so he'll get my vote. For those opposed to Brexit and a corrupt Tory government, tactical voting is the order of the day.

It can't be more of a disaster than the 2015 election, Brexit and Trump can it...? 



Fair points.

It strikes me as being a bit rich that Corbyn copped a lot of heat for not fighting harder to stop Brexit (my wife, for one, has not forgiven him) whereas May - who also in theory was a Remainer, kept her head so low below the parapet that she is now allowed to present herself as the 'Hard Brexit Queen' - a classic example of political expediency, cowardice and cynicism. She has again proved her gutlessness by refusing to debate with the other main parties on TV. Pathetic, really. How to lead from behind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomTom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:08pm
All the debate doesn't matter , the pendulum has swung in favour of extremism (left or right)....There is only one thing to look forward to is war ...Look back at history and its just repeating itself .....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Or are you just sick of politics and elections? Post-Brexit and Trump I am pretty disillusioned by it all in truth and I though Brexit had some nasty stuff on both sides of the debate.

What I'm sick of is the Tory party attitude that debate needs to be silenced and we all need to "muck in" behind Brexit "in the national interest". Theresa May dislikes debate (no parliament input on the final Brexit terms and now she's pushed a snap election while the opposition is at it's weakest to get a mandate and a majority to push through extreme Tory policies) and is probably the most authoritarian politician of our generation. 

This is the loudest, silent coup I've known. It has echos of Erdowan in Turkey and her embarrassing Minister's (Johnson's failures on Syria and Truss miserable support for the "enemies of the people" / Judges during the Brexit High Court ruling) are bordering on incompetent.

You've got to hope Corbyn can pull it out of the bag. I usually vote Lib Dem, but we've got a Labour candidate (Paul Flynn) who could hold his seat so he'll get my vote. For those opposed to Brexit and a corrupt Tory government, tactical voting is the order of the day.

It can't be more of a disaster than the 2015 election, Brexit and Trump can it...? 



Fair points.

It strikes me as being a bit rich that Corbyn copped a lot of heat for not fighting harder to stop Brexit (my wife, for one, has not forgiven him) whereas May - who also in theory was a Remainer, kept her head so low below the parapet that she is now allowed to present herself as the 'Hard Brexit Queen' - a classic example of political expediency, cowardice and cynicism. She has again proved her gutlessness by refusing to debate with the other main parties on TV. Pathetic, really. How to lead from behind.

Good point, she sat on the fence too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 10:33pm
This is as much about internal Tory battles as it is about Labour. May doesn't want to be beholden to her party's lunatic fringe who could easily revert into b'stard mode a la John Major. Yes it is politically expedient that Labour are well behind in the polls but I think she wants to pick up 50 or so extra MP's so that she has a buffer in parliament.

What does it mean to me personally? Well, the wheel kerps turning doesn't it! Corbyn hit a lot of my buttons today but when I think of the utter ineptitude of Welsh Labour and the shocking way in which Wales is run, I can't bring myself to vote Labour. I used to vote Plaid because I wholeheartedly believe the best way for Wales to thrive is for us to pull ourselves up by our own bootlaces - i.e. we govern ourselves. However I've never seen such a weak proposition as Plaid. Good grief get some ambition! The tories are an anathema for me and the Libs have gone to hide in a cave and found a neanderthal to lead them after the existential crisis for them that was the coalition government.

On a different note try the test on https://www.politicalcompass.org. I found it useful. Helped me to think about where I could best place my vote. Just a pity in Llanelli it'll have zero effect as no doubt Labour's rosetted donkey will be elected as it has done since before written history!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 10:37pm
On the subject of Corbyn- since being elected he has failed to control his own party or even challenge the Conservative majority. For the government to do right they need a strong Labour and a strong Conservative party to keep each other in check.
Amazes me how Corbyn can have failed to stand up to the weakest Conservative leadership in years, have fallen to roughly 24 points behind them, have suffered major embarrassments and have failed to keep even lifelong Labour politicians on his side; yet people still think to seem he's a saviour. Let's be honest the bloke is a joke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 11:33pm
We talk here, the great talk about us beng the most Welsh Welsh region stuff yet it's all about Corbyn Corbyn Corbyn as the Welsh saviour up in Islington or somewhere up in London but what about our own party as the most Welsh region in the so called "most Welsh club" i.e. Plaid Cymru? Scotland puts us to shame some might say in their national support for their country's party. Discuss

Edited by reesytheexile - 20 April 2017 at 11:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 8:29am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

We talk here, the great talk about us beng the most Welsh Welsh region stuff yet it's all about Corbyn Corbyn Corbyn as the Welsh saviour up in Islington or somewhere up in London but what about our own party as the most Welsh region in the so called "most Welsh club" i.e. Plaid Cymru? Scotland puts us to shame some might say in their national support for their country's party. Discuss


The problem with Plaid is they've fallen for the very argument their opponents put against them, that is Wales is too crap to do anything for itself and needs Mummy England to wipe its botty. They need to demonstrate how they would improve our economy to the point where we stand proudly on our own two feet and how self governance would benefit every member of our nation.

Instead we get Leanne Wood bleating on about "In the Rhondda..." or "Westminster isn't giving us enough money..."

On your other point, I don't see Corbyn as any sort of saviour. Just a man with left wing policies leading a party who are, in the main, right of centre and desperately divided. I like some of his policies and agree with some of his analysis. I can't bear his party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 8:47am
The problem with the electoral system in the UK is that some two thirds of the voting population will be governed by the remaining one third who are elected by the first past the post system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 9:51am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The problem with the electoral system in the UK is that some two thirds of the voting population will be governed by the remaining one third who are elected by the first past the post system.


25% in 2015!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 9:55am
Flawed system but thats what we have. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 10:50am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Flawed system but thats what we have. 


Hence why we need some form of PR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 11:40am
Totally agree but which party of the big two will, when in power, attempt the change? Be like turkeys voting fro Xmas. If fairness was the yardstick it would have happened years ago. But lets face it even when we get a simple majority vote a la Brexit people still don't stop whingeing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2017 at 11:41am
Has anyone seen Neil Hamilton the Ukip leader at The Scarlets? One of Carmarthens finest moments to be proud of  electing him/UKip in!!! For some reason though I just feel embarrassed every time I see him pop up with huge regularity on the Telly and think how stupid some folk down west are! Of course I could be the stupid one!!Stern Smile
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