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najbritcol View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 April 2017 at 12:47pm
What do you think of this? IMO it is a cynical ploy by Theresa May to destroy Labour and to be re elected before the full effects of Brexit are really felt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 12:54pm
Theresa May wants to stay in power and will do almost anything to achieve that goal. Personally have no problem with that. If the only thing that was stopping her from calling an election was a promise made to Corbyn she'd have been daft.
On her end it's a clever move, it solves a few problems:
1) There is no real competition to a Tory landslide thanks to Corbyn. Therefore - low risk.
2) It achieves an election before what is likely to be a pretty poor brexit deal lowers public confidence in her.
3) It can stop the line that's trotted out for her so often that she was never officially voted in by the public.

However for us, we get a choice between someone way out of her depth at the top (May), another who couldn't organise a p**s up in a brewery (Corbyn) and a homophobe (Farron). Great fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redeyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by najbritcol najbritcol wrote:

What do you think of this? IMO it is a cynical ploy by Theresa May to destroy Labour and to be re elected before the full effects of Brexit are really felt.

Labour are doing a pretty good job of destroying themselves through inept leadership facilitated by support from the trade unions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 1:26pm
I don't understand why Corbyn gets such a bad press although his anti-rich stance I would hazard a guess annoys quite a few powerful people who happen to be in control of our newspapers and therefore what a lot of the population regurgitate. You read what he actually says and he's very much in favour of workers rights, anti-loveliness, anti-old school lovely politics; things which I thought many would agree with? Yet he has this conception that he would be a disaster if placed in power, in part due to the division in the labour party but also I think the media have a lot to do with it.

It is also not, and should not, be just about the leader of the party - we see what happens in the US when it becomes way too personal.

I can see why May has called it: she wants a bigger majority and not have to deal with her backbenchers during Brexit, which arguably are as big a problem as Labour at the moment. You strike when you think the opportunity is best, as clearly she must do. 

We may have a Tory government for a looooong time I can't help feeling.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 1:51pm
The Media which is extreme Tory and right wing totally control public opinion, The Media were responsible for the result of the Brexit referendum. The Mail, Sun and Express are the worst offenders with the biggest and wildest hysteria headline. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and get their information from them. The country is crying out for a government that can tackle major problems like NHS, Poverty, Care in the Community, Defence, Education and the like. All they ever do is move the deckchairs around and apply loads of sticking plaster to problems. Also the First Past the Post election method no longer serves the electorate, time to change and join the 21st century.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The Media which is extreme Tory and right wing totally control public opinion, The Media were responsible for the result of the Brexit referendum. The Mail, Sun and Express are the worst offenders with the biggest and wildest hysteria headline. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and get their information from them. The country is crying out for a government that can tackle major problems like NHS, Poverty, Care in the Community, Defence, Education and the like. All they ever do is move the deckchairs around and apply loads of sticking plaster to problems. Also the First Past the Post election method no longer serves the electorate, time to change and join the 21st century.

Left wing papers like the gUardian helped with brexit, also the left wing bbc
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najbritcol View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The Media which is extreme Tory and right wing totally control public opinion, The Media were responsible for the result of the Brexit referendum. The Mail, Sun and Express are the worst offenders with the biggest and wildest hysteria headline. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and get their information from them. The country is crying out for a government that can tackle major problems like NHS, Poverty, Care in the Community, Defence, Education and the like. All they ever do is move the deckchairs around and apply loads of sticking plaster to problems. Also the First Past the Post election method no longer serves the electorate, time to change and join the 21st century.


Excellent post.
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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:19pm
Could have some interesting editorials from the Evening Standard in the run-up....

Sorry for bringing the media up; they're just so influential in our politics! Who do people generally want in power, their MP, the government? No judgement from me: I am expecting a Tory victory and suspect the majority view TM and mates as a safe pair of hands to negotiate the choppy waters of Brexit. Be interesting to see if Labour lose more seats in Wales again. Oxford East has been Labour for ages and is a good seat for a new candidate as the current MP is not re-standing.

Or are you just sick of politics and elections? Post-Brexit and Trump I am pretty disillusioned by it all in truth and I though Brexit had some nasty stuff on both sides of the debate.


Edited by dr_martinov - 20 April 2017 at 2:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by BlackwoodScarlet BlackwoodScarlet wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The Media which is extreme Tory and right wing totally control public opinion, The Media were responsible for the result of the Brexit referendum. The Mail, Sun and Express are the worst offenders with the biggest and wildest hysteria headline. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and get their information from them. The country is crying out for a government that can tackle major problems like NHS, Poverty, Care in the Community, Defence, Education and the like. All they ever do is move the deckchairs around and apply loads of sticking plaster to problems. Also the First Past the Post election method no longer serves the electorate, time to change and join the 21st century.

Left wing papers like the gUardian helped with brexit, also the left wing bbc

How so? By trying to give a balanced view, as opposed to the hysterical pro-Brexit propaganda of the right-wing press? (Does anyone still remember the crazy stories these papers made up? I remember one of them claimed that 'Brussels is set to ban British pickled onions' once, FFS!). 

You do have a sort of point - the Beeb fell into a trap of 'balance' which allowed statements signed by dozens of Nobel laureates, or hundreds of economists, explaining exactly why Brexit would be a disaster to be cancelled out by a few minutes of hysteria from clowns like Farage, Boris or Carswell. This, surely, is not what 'balance' should look like - if it was, every Brian Cox programme should be balanced by equal time for the Flat Earth Society!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The Media which is extreme Tory and right wing totally control public opinion, The Media were responsible for the result of the Brexit referendum. The Mail, Sun and Express are the worst offenders with the biggest and wildest hysteria headline. Most people don't read beyond the headlines and get their information from them. The country is crying out for a government that can tackle major problems like NHS, Poverty, Care in the Community, Defence, Education and the like. All they ever do is move the deckchairs around and apply loads of sticking plaster to problems. Also the First Past the Post election method no longer serves the electorate, time to change and join the 21st century.

I do feel that Labour (and other parties) should call out these papers, as they are never going to get anything like a fair deal from them.

It's shocking that most of our newspapers (who undoubtedly will back May) are owned by TAX DODGING EXPATRIATES:

Mail titles: Lord Rothermere, non-dom for tax, 'lives' in Monte Carlo (when not in London!)

Sun, Times, Sunday Times: Rupert Murdoch, one-time Aussie, now USA citizen - not a UK taxpayer

Telegraph titles: Barclay brothers - own a channel island to avoid paying tax (the Wikipedia entry is a bit too 'balanced' for my taste, but still illuminating). 

As always, 'Private Eye' has consistently exposed these shysters over many years.

I have reservations about Corbyn, but the Tories are so deep in the pockets of these crooks (so was Blair, of course) that you can't even see their hairlines. No doubt they'll go on celebrating their unholy alliance, unless a deal can be reached by other parties to turf out these crooks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 2:45pm
Papers burn easily.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 3:26pm
What about these papers the guardian, the mirror , the independent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 3:46pm
Clearly she expects to increase her majority and was looking a little smug yesterday. I was surprised as they have a  20% lead so she could have coasted for a few years. However she claims its simply being called so she can have a clear mandate and majority to then go into negotiations with the EU with a stronger hand. Whether this is opportunistic or not, its put the heat on everyone else to put their cards on the table and offer alternative policies to the tories.

The libs may pilfer a few votes from hard line bremainers, plaed may pick up bremainers but probably wont move much, UKIP? Well without farage and now this unimpressive scouser in charge may gain a few from those who want a hard brexit, but lose a few percent to the tories too...Labour? Well theyre in the middle on europe , they say theyre fighting for the best brexit deal (softer brexit not sure what hard or soft actually mean exactly) 

Corbyn needs to convince on the economy more than anything else. With a strong balanced economy all his wishes to fund the public services and nhs better etc etc can only come true with a strong economy. Clearly the tories will serve their own, the elite 1%. They allow some of it to trickle down. Corbyn has 7 weeks to lay out a masterplan for leading the country. An industrial strategy would be a good place to start, followed by a chat about clause 4 then lowering VAT (That is a major issue he can point out major tory hypocrisy here... labour are LOWERING this tax on the masses, whereas the tories always RAISE this tax on the masses), raising the top end tax another, offering help for SME's (totally absent under the last labour government) He needs to recognise the EU's ass of burocratic rules and regulations simply emboldens corporations and wipes out the SME's ability to compete. There needs to be far different regulations for massive companies as opposed to small ones.... 

Also drawing attention to the mega cheap sale of public land and draw attention to local government waste. He needs to also bring up the GP doctors contract labour gave the doctors in 2004 that allowed 90% of all doctors to opt OUT of out of hours work....That has created chaos, he needs to scrap it...He also needs to lay out a comprehensive strategy for allowing a healthier competitive economy and bring back the monopolies and mergers commission. That is now defunct and in its absence we've seen the obscene corporate take overs and megabank takeovers most of which ended in catastrophe. He can also underline the fact he was against the Iraq war. I expect labour will lose heavily but I really hope he and labour can make the best of this opportunity to re-find their identity, hold the government to account and make the best of a difficult situation. Simply being angry at the greedy tories will only appeal the the members....the country at large wants and needs to know labours masterplan and that lessons from blairs lot have been learned


Edited by roy munster - 20 April 2017 at 4:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Sun, Times, Sunday Times: Rupert Murdoch, one-time Aussie, now USA citizen - not a UK taxpayer

Telegraph titles: Barclay brothers - own a channel island to avoid paying tax (the Wikipedia entry is a bit too 'balanced' for my taste, but still illuminating).

Regardless, The Times is a balanced, centrist paper which opposed Brexit (even when it's proprietor championed it). The editorial direction clearly doesn't pander to Murdoch which makes it odds with the Sun, Sky or Fox News.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Or are you just sick of politics and elections? Post-Brexit and Trump I am pretty disillusioned by it all in truth and I though Brexit had some nasty stuff on both sides of the debate.

What I'm sick of is the Tory party attitude that debate needs to be silenced and we all need to "muck in" behind Brexit "in the national interest". Theresa May dislikes debate (no parliament input on the final Brexit terms and now she's pushed a snap election while the opposition is at it's weakest to get a mandate and a majority to push through extreme Tory policies) and is probably the most authoritarian politician of our generation. 

This is the loudest, silent coup I've known. It has echos of Erdowan in Turkey and her embarrassing Minister's (Johnson's failures on Syria and Truss miserable support for the "enemies of the people" / Judges during the Brexit High Court ruling) are bordering on incompetent.

You've got to hope Corbyn can pull it out of the bag. I usually vote Lib Dem, but we've got a Labour candidate (Paul Flynn) who could hold his seat so he'll get my vote. For those opposed to Brexit and a corrupt Tory government, tactical voting is the order of the day.

It can't be more of a disaster than the 2015 election, Brexit and Trump can it...? 




Edited by PearlJam - 20 April 2017 at 4:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2017 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Or are you just sick of politics and elections? Post-Brexit and Trump I am pretty disillusioned by it all in truth and I though Brexit had some nasty stuff on both sides of the debate.




What I'm sick of is the Tory party attitude that debate needs to be silenced and we all need to "muck in" behind Brexit "in the national interest". Theresa May dislikes debate (no parliament input on the final Brexit terms and now she's pushed a snap election while the opposition is at it's weakest to get a mandate and a majority to push through extreme Tory policies) and is probably the most authoritarian politician of our generation. 

This is the loudest, silent coup I've known. It has echos of Erdowan in Turkey and her embarrassing Minister's (Johnson's failures on Syria and Truss miserable support for the "enemies of the people" / Judges during the Brexit High Court ruling) are bordering on incompetent.

You've got to hope Corbyn can pull it out of the bag. I usually vote Lib Dem, but we've got a Labour candidate (Paul Flynn) who could hold his seat so he'll get my vote. For those opposed to Brexit and a corrupt Tory government, tactical voting is the order of the day.

It can't be more of a disaster than the 2015 election, Brexit and Trump can it...? 




I think you will find its the left who dont like debate
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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