Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


So this 'loan' then

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
supertaf View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 17 August 2004
Location: Down the Parc
Status: Offline
Points: 8174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Im not sure I agree with the fact its the clubs responsibility. The WRU owe us the money under the agreement, its not their fault or ours that we are in this situation BUT we are funded by them, its not an annual loan we repay. Imagine I owed you £50 and I said, heres the £50 I owe you but I want it back later?? Makes no sense at all.
On the point about the new guy, you need to research his history, if it was down to him we would have 2 regions now. He is the Doctor Beeching of the rugby world, a bean counter. Not a man to run a rugby union in my (and many other peoples) opinion. Scary times ahead.



The problem is, in the agremeent with the WRU, the 4 regions are due to be funded whatever is left in the pot after the community game has their ringfenced £11m. They didn't sign up to get paid £20m+ annually. So the WRU don't have to give them £20m+

Of course they never foresaw a global pandemic which ripped off that £20m. So it's now gone down to £3m, and thew rest of it is made up for by by a loan.

Happy to admit my misunderstanding as that isnt how i thought it worked. Seems a ridiculous agreement especially with a body as untrustworthy as the WRU but hey ho. It also seems an incredibly risky strategy though and one that has well and truly bitten pro rugby on the arse. Its still odd though that without the regions, there is no Welsh team yet they are treated with a fair amount of distain. I would just refuse to play/release players tbh.


Edited by supertaf - 08 September 2020 at 3:41pm
Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 26955
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Im not sure I agree with the fact its the clubs responsibility. The WRU owe us the money under the agreement, its not their fault or ours that we are in this situation BUT we are funded by them, its not an annual loan we repay. Imagine I owed you £50 and I said, heres the £50 I owe you but I want it back later?? Makes no sense at all.
On the point about the new guy, you need to research his history, if it was down to him we would have 2 regions now. He is the Doctor Beeching of the rugby world, a bean counter. Not a man to run a rugby union in my (and many other peoples) opinion. Scary times ahead.



The problem is, in the agremeent with the WRU, the 4 regions are due to be funded whatever is left in the pot after the community game has their ringfenced £11m. They didn't sign up to get paid £20m+ annually. So the WRU don't have to give them £20m+

Of course they never foresaw a global pandemic which ripped off that £20m. So it's now gone down to £3m, and thew rest of it is made up for by by a loan.


Happy to admit my misunderstanding as that isnt how i thought it worked. Seems a ridiculous agreement especially with a body as untrustworthy as the WRU but hey ho. It also seems an incredibly risky strategy though and one that has well and truly bitten pro rugby on the arse. Its still odd though that without the regions, there is no Welsh team yet they are treated with a fair amount of distain. I would just refuse to play/release players tbh.




Well it might come to that if the CVC money is distributed to parties other than the 3 clubs, or the loan doesn't materialise or [insert another civil war inducing scenario] but at the end of the day, the 4 regions signed the deal knowing that some years would be less productive than others, financially. They just didn't know that the mother of all financial disasters would happen, and why would they?

What really annoys me though is the attitude of some amateur fans that see their clubs having 'less' than the pro clubs. If this episode shows anything it's that all the risk is on the professional clubs and the ONLY guaranteed funding is that ring-fenced £11m for the amateur game.
Back to Top
Speedy View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2004
Location: Gelendzhik
Status: Offline
Points: 14196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 3:48pm
The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
Back to Top
scarletnut View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 28 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12362
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
The players would choose the national side though.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 9307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.

What are the terms of the participation agreement ?

Would the Clubs be in contravention of that agreement ?

What are the details of the participation agreement, e.g. player release ?

Lots of questions that I don't know the answer to there !!!
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 23238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.

What are the terms of the participation agreement ?

Would the Clubs be in contravention of that agreement ?

What are the details of the participation agreement, e.g. player release ?

Lots of questions that I don't know the answer to there !!!
main one being who would they play?
Back to Top
supertaf View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 17 August 2004
Location: Down the Parc
Status: Offline
Points: 8174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
The players would choose the national side though.
Perhaps but rugby is buggered anyway so maybe its worth chancing our arms. I cannot see the point in just stumbling along as we are not really knowing whats going on.
Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872
Back to Top
haydn_davies View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 April 2009
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17745
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 9:50pm
Couple of things for me on this issue:

i) How many less 'home' games have WRU missed due to the pandemic?

ii) Haven't the Welsh Government paid the WRU for using the Principality? Where has that gone?

iii) If the WRU are due to fund the 4 pro sides to a certain level due to achieving certain goals, but haven't got the funds to do so, why are the 4 pro sides having to repay a loan which is to all intent and purposes to cover the WRU's own backsides? Surely that's down to the WRU to repay it?
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
Just for our SA friends - Weste is die beste!
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12529
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 10:18pm
This guy appointment is imo
Bad news for the regions, i can see mergers ahead
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Offline
Points: 16556
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Couple of things for me on this issue:

i) How many less 'home' games have WRU missed due to the pandemic?

ii) Haven't the Welsh Government paid the WRU for using the Principality? Where has that gone?

iii) If the WRU are due to fund the 4 pro sides to a certain level due to achieving certain goals, but haven't got the funds to do so, why are the 4 pro sides having to repay a loan which is to all intent and purposes to cover the WRU's own backsides? Surely that's down to the WRU to repay it?
Probably two questions for Crys’s Zoom meeting with the WRU happening shortly.

No doubt many more to come.
Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12529
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
who we going to play?  regional Round robin for a year? 
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12529
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 10:37pm
[QUOTE=haydn_davies]Couple of things for me on this issue:

i) How many less 'home' games have WRU missed due to the pandemic?
Scotland home so far possibly an end if season game to plus wales will likely be playing in front of no crowd so lose all the ticket monsy plus corporate takings so millions per fuxture
ii) Haven't the Welsh Government paid the WRU for using the Principality? Where has that gone? 

Id guess it was a nominal sum tbh but the wru should disclose how much it is i agree
Back to Top
ScarletBear View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 May 2012
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 2:23am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

[QUOTE=haydn_davies]Couple of things for me on this issue:

i) How many less 'home' games have WRU missed due to the pandemic?
Scotland home so far possibly an end if season game to plus wales will likely be playing in front of no crowd so lose all the ticket monsy plus corporate takings so millions per fuxture
ii) Haven't the Welsh Government paid the WRU for using the Principality? Where has that gone? 

Id guess it was a nominal sum tbh but the wru should disclose how much it is i agree

Why should it be nominal? Its not a public institution. I was expecting something much more than nominal. My guess is they would never get some big numbers from government and preferred to put some credit in the bank as it were to be used when needed - a time that may come sooner than later.


Edited by ScarletBear - 09 September 2020 at 2:25am
Scarlets before Wales
Back to Top
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4405
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 7:39am
Originally posted by ScarletBear ScarletBear wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

[QUOTE=haydn_davies]Couple of things for me on this issue:

i) How many less 'home' games have WRU missed due to the pandemic?
Scotland home so far possibly an end if season game to plus wales will likely be playing in front of no crowd so lose all the ticket monsy plus corporate takings so millions per fuxture
ii) Haven't the Welsh Government paid the WRU for using the Principality? Where has that gone? 

Id guess it was a nominal sum tbh but the wru should disclose how much it is i agree

Why should it be nominal? Its not a public institution. I was expecting something much more than nominal. My guess is they would never get some big numbers from government and preferred to put some credit in the bank as it were to be used when needed - a time that may come sooner than later.

Have the governments paid anything for the use of buildings they have established hospitals in? There was a back down by the owners of the O2 at the start who were going to charge and then changed tack in the face of opposition. 

Back to Top
Speedy View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2004
Location: Gelendzhik
Status: Offline
Points: 14196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 8:25am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
The players would choose the national side though.

They didnt last time.
Back to Top
Speedy View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 04 September 2004
Location: Gelendzhik
Status: Offline
Points: 14196
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 8:26am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Speedy Speedy wrote:

The WRU can forget player power for this then. No more early camps.

Any player not picked in matchday squad gets released back to region.

Legally this can backfire on WRU. They are still treating 3 privately run business like they are semi pro social clubs.

Time for a rebel season.
who we going to play?  regional Round robin for a year? 

Who did Cardiff and Swansea play in the last one?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.