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South African sides set to join Pro12

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henry_winkler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote henry_winkler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2017 at 9:21pm
The English league  ship has sailed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2017 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:



Under those terms yes. And who knows how many clubs the English would allow to be promoted every year. One? In the meantime all the rest of the Celtic clubs have to survive on minimal second division tv money and have all their stars stripped away to the English clubs in the lucrative first division.

It sounds from your wording as though the English were dragged to that meeting by BT and then the English set conditions that they knew the Celts would have to refuse. A way of maintaining the status quo and being able to blame the Celts. BT may well be worried by the pro 12 being expanded to other tv markets ( equals more competition) and if they are, they'll drag the English to another meeting having given them a telling about setting pre-conditions. Expect a better deal in due course and I wouldn't accept anything other than the top six in each league forming the top division.


Well presumably we wouldn't be doing it for free. The 2nd division would be a continuation of the Pro12 but with largely increased tv income. I can't see how anyone would think that signing up to effectively a pro12 but with more money, better coverage, and a potential B&I league in the future is a bad thing. The mind boggles.

Quote We're not under that much duress that we can't bide our time a bit.


Two Pro12 teams just went bust in the last 2 months. It's getting dire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2017 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:



Under those terms yes. And who knows how many clubs the English would allow to be promoted every year. One? In the meantime all the rest of the Celtic clubs have to survive on minimal second division tv money and have all their stars stripped away to the English clubs in the lucrative first division.

It sounds from your wording as though the English were dragged to that meeting by BT and then the English set conditions that they knew the Celts would have to refuse. A way of maintaining the status quo and being able to blame the Celts. BT may well be worried by the pro 12 being expanded to other tv markets ( equals more competition) and if they are, they'll drag the English to another meeting having given them a telling about setting pre-conditions. Expect a better deal in due course and I wouldn't accept anything other than the top six in each league forming the top division.


Well presumably we wouldn't be doing it for free. The 2nd division would be a continuation of the Pro12 but with largely increased tv income. I can't see how anyone would think that signing up to effectively a pro12 but with more money, better coverage, and a potential B&I league in the future is a bad thing. The mind boggles.

Quote We're not under that much duress that we can't bide our time a bit.


Two Pro12 teams just went bust in the last 2 months. It's getting dire.


Who says there would be largely increased income in D2? Apart from you? And by "we", I mean we the Scarlets, plus the other top seven clubs in the pro 12 last season- not the ragbag tailend who add nothing. And by not that much duress, I mean, we can survive another season. Even if you are under time pressure, never let the other side know in a negotiation.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote najbritcol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2017 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:



Under those terms yes. And who knows how many clubs the English would allow to be promoted every year. One? In the meantime all the rest of the Celtic clubs have to survive on minimal second division tv money and have all their stars stripped away to the English clubs in the lucrative first division.

It sounds from your wording as though the English were dragged to that meeting by BT and then the English set conditions that they knew the Celts would have to refuse. A way of maintaining the status quo and being able to blame the Celts. BT may well be worried by the pro 12 being expanded to other tv markets ( equals more competition) and if they are, they'll drag the English to another meeting having given them a telling about setting pre-conditions. Expect a better deal in due course and I wouldn't accept anything other than the top six in each league forming the top division.


Well presumably we wouldn't be doing it for free. The 2nd division would be a continuation of the Pro12 but with largely increased tv income. I can't see how anyone would think that signing up to effectively a pro12 but with more money, better coverage, and a potential B&I league in the future is a bad thing. The mind boggles.

Quote We're not under that much duress that we can't bide our time a bit.


Two Pro12 teams just went bust in the last 2 months. It's getting dire.

Which ones?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vulcan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2017 at 11:15pm
Rumour has it Zebre and Ospreys
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 6:13am
Originally posted by Vulcan Vulcan wrote:

Rumour has it Zebre and Ospreys
it would be typical of the Ospreys now we have the better of them to go under just to spoil or fun.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 6:46am
Originally posted by najbritcol najbritcol wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:



Under those terms yes. And who knows how many clubs the English would allow to be promoted every year. One? In the meantime all the rest of the Celtic clubs have to survive on minimal second division tv money and have all their stars stripped away to the English clubs in the lucrative first division.

It sounds from your wording as though the English were dragged to that meeting by BT and then the English set conditions that they knew the Celts would have to refuse. A way of maintaining the status quo and being able to blame the Celts. BT may well be worried by the pro 12 being expanded to other tv markets ( equals more competition) and if they are, they'll drag the English to another meeting having given them a telling about setting pre-conditions. Expect a better deal in due course and I wouldn't accept anything other than the top six in each league forming the top division.


Well presumably we wouldn't be doing it for free. The 2nd division would be a continuation of the Pro12 but with largely increased tv income. I can't see how anyone would think that signing up to effectively a pro12 but with more money, better coverage, and a potential B&I league in the future is a bad thing. The mind boggles.

Quote We're not under that much duress that we can't bide our time a bit.


Two Pro12 teams just went bust in the last 2 months. It's getting dire.


Which ones?


Zebre and Dragons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 11:44am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:



Under those terms yes. And who knows how many clubs the English would allow to be promoted every year. One? In the meantime all the rest of the Celtic clubs have to survive on minimal second division tv money and have all their stars stripped away to the English clubs in the lucrative first division.

It sounds from your wording as though the English were dragged to that meeting by BT and then the English set conditions that they knew the Celts would have to refuse. A way of maintaining the status quo and being able to blame the Celts. BT may well be worried by the pro 12 being expanded to other tv markets ( equals more competition) and if they are, they'll drag the English to another meeting having given them a telling about setting pre-conditions. Expect a better deal in due course and I wouldn't accept anything other than the top six in each league forming the top division.


Well presumably we wouldn't be doing it for free. The 2nd division would be a continuation of the Pro12 but with largely increased tv income. I can't see how anyone would think that signing up to effectively a pro12 but with more money, better coverage, and a potential B&I league in the future is a bad thing. The mind boggles.

Quote We're not under that much duress that we can't bide our time a bit.


Two Pro12 teams just went bust in the last 2 months. It's getting dire.

It's also been reported that many English clubs are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Just saying... don't know if that's accurate, but if it is then they are in a similar position to the pro-12 teams. Maybe someone knows  the figures?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:



It's also been reported that many English clubs are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Just saying... don't know if that's accurate, but if it is then they are in a similar position to the pro-12 teams. Maybe someone knows  the figures?

That's serviceable debt. That's what happens in professional sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:



It's also been reported that many English clubs are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Just saying... don't know if that's accurate, but if it is then they are in a similar position to the pro-12 teams. Maybe someone knows  the figures?

That's serviceable debt. That's what happens in professional sport.

Is that like the national debt, then?

It seems the country 'owes' billions, and one argument for austerity is that we need to bring that down. Other commentators say that the country always owes billions, and we could just as easily borrow more... and spend more on the NHS, etc.

(Sorry, I know that's a digression... but is there a problem with debt as such, unless someone calls it in?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:



It's also been reported that many English clubs are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Just saying... don't know if that's accurate, but if it is then they are in a similar position to the pro-12 teams. Maybe someone knows  the figures?

That's serviceable debt. That's what happens in professional sport.


Is that like the national debt, then?

It seems the country 'owes' billions, and one argument for austerity is that we need to bring that down. Other commentators say that the country always owes billions, and we could just as easily borrow more... and spend more on the NHS, etc.

(Sorry, I know that's a digression... but is there a problem with debt as such, unless someone calls it in?)


There's no problem with debt. I don't own my house.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joni_bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 7:44pm
Pretty much. As far as I'm aware, it's not always a good thing if a country runs a surplus (higher income from tax receipts than expenditure) because it's ineffective allocation of resources as it could be spent on extra nurses, new roads, etc so borrowing to pay for such things usually keeps the electorate happy because the benefits to the country outweigh the cost of the interest payments.

So staying in debt all the time is usually alright as long as there's not a massive economic crisis or anything that vastly reduces the national income and hence reduces tax receipts,oops
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PTScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2017 at 6:35pm
What I would like to know is... Are the club running a bus for supporters????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2017 at 7:20pm
What is the point of travelling to South Africa for just one game?

That's likely to be the case if we have 2 Conferences.

The SA sides wouldn't have a derby, if any travellers don't play both franchises.

Glasgow and Edinburgh, Treviso and what's left of Zebre, the 4 Irish Provinces and our 4 Regions means that 2 Conferences split at least one country's representatives.

It's got to be a 14 team home and away league, if everyone gets to keep their own derbies.

The only way to preserve the current arrangements with everyone playing derbies is to preclude the SA franchises from the Derby matches. And, if we only play 3 derbies, that's half rations.

Much to be revealed before we get to the truth/a workable plan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletSpiderman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2017 at 10:40am
Being slightly selfish here.  I've bought my season ticket for next season, based on 11 home league games, if it goes down to only 6 home games due to it being a confrence then that is a shaft as the price for a game has pretty much doubled.  I know it is a petty reason for being against it, but you think of the amount of season tickets bought for all the Pro12 sides by now already, and that is a fair number of fans that could be getting the middle finger.  And also if Sky are gonna put up more money they'll want more games, which will mean less on BBC/S4C, so again another shaft to the fans as that'll more or less mean any away game will be on sky (as we are the Pro12 Champs, in case anyone has managed to forget it yet hahaha), so another bunch of cash taken from our pockets to see those games.
 
Honestly, the only people who i can see winning from this, especially in conferences, would be Sky and the Saouth Africans, and the losers will be the fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2017 at 10:49am
Originally posted by ScarletSpiderman ScarletSpiderman wrote:


Being slightly selfish here.  I've bought my season ticket for next season, based on 11 home league games, if it goes down to only 6 home games due to it being a confrence then that is a shaft as the price for a game has pretty much doubled.  I know it is a petty reason for being against it, but you think of the amount of season tickets bought for all the Pro12 sides by now already, and that is a fair number of fans that could be getting the middle finger.  And also if Sky are gonna put up more money they'll want more games, which will mean less on BBC/S4C, so again another shaft to the fans as that'll more or less mean any away game will be on sky (as we are the Pro12 Champs, in case anyone has managed to forget it yet hahaha), so another bunch of cash taken from our pockets to see those games.
 
Honestly, the only people who i can see winning from this, especially in conferences, would be Sky and the Saouth Africans, and the losers will be the fans.


I don't think it would be 6, would it? More likely 9.

But I agree with your point, changing the product after people have bought it, is not a good place to be.
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