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Stand up Mr Parkes

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2017 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

How many tries does Hadleigh make for other players he had best hands of all our backs always seens to be in right place at right time. He was Probably best ball player on pitch last Saturday. He will do for me different player to Scott we been lucky to have had both and wish we still did but players move on. Age is only a number he wil still be about in two years some people are born Scarlets others like Hadleigh and Batclay embrace it and contribute a huge amount.

You have probably summed up the dilemma facing Wales with that comment. Hadleigh may have been our best ball player last Saturday which shows what we are lacking. Lets face it Hadleigh, in International terms, is adequate - he's reliable, usually takes the right options. Would he get in the English, Scottish or Irish teams no way. Lets not even mention Australia or New Zealand. To break down top defences, which SAfrica are not, you need far more than reliable & adequate. You need speed, ball playing ability & a coach who can devise a clever game plan. 

Hadleigh will not let Wales down; he has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but to shine in the International arena I don't think so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 December 2017 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

How many tries does Hadleigh make for other players he had best hands of all our backs always seens to be in right place at right time. He was Probably best ball player on pitch last Saturday. He will do for me different player to Scott we been lucky to have had both and wish we still did but players move on. Age is only a number he wil still be about in two years some people are born Scarlets others like Hadleigh and Batclay embrace it and contribute a huge amount.


You have probably summed up the dilemma facing Wales with that comment. Hadleigh may have been our best ball player last Saturday which shows what we are lacking. Lets face it Hadleigh, in International terms, is adequate - he's reliable, usually takes the right options. Would he get in the English, Scottish or Irish teams no way. Lets not even mention Australia or New Zealand. To break down top defences, which SAfrica are not, you need far more than reliable & adequate. You need speed, ball playing ability & a coach who can devise a clever game plan. 

Hadleigh will not let Wales down; he has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but to shine in the International arena I don't think so. 

Personally I think he would get into most of those six nations teams more so than most Welsh centres Foxy apart.
I can't understand the downer on HP very skilful player, I know he has probably displaced Scott who is the local boy but you can't blame him for that all he has done is give his all and been the difference for us in many games.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2017 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

How many tries does Hadleigh make for other players he had best hands of all our backs always seens to be in right place at right time. He was Probably best ball player on pitch last Saturday. He will do for me different player to Scott we been lucky to have had both and wish we still did but players move on. Age is only a number he wil still be about in two years some people are born Scarlets others like Hadleigh and Batclay embrace it and contribute a huge amount.


You have probably summed up the dilemma facing Wales with that comment. Hadleigh may have been our best ball player last Saturday which shows what we are lacking. Lets face it Hadleigh, in International terms, is adequate - he's reliable, usually takes the right options. Would he get in the English, Scottish or Irish teams no way. Lets not even mention Australia or New Zealand. To break down top defences, which SAfrica are not, you need far more than reliable & adequate. You need speed, ball playing ability & a coach who can devise a clever game plan. 

Hadleigh will not let Wales down; he has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but to shine in the International arena I don't think so. 

Personally I think he would get into most of those six nations teams more so than most Welsh centres Foxy apart.
I can't understand the downer on HP very skilful player, I know he has probably displaced Scott who is the local boy but you can't blame him for that all he has done is give his all and been the difference for us in many games.

Why the last thing I want is to underestimate Hadleigh's worth to the Scarlets - he has been fantastic so lets put that to bed. So you would select Hadleigh ahead of current British Lions centres for England & Ireland - Farrell & Henshaw? This is where I have the problem. He is 30 years old, is being asked to become a 2nd playmaker without the skill set i.e. short on pace & poor kicking game. It isn't going to work and its not his fault. He is a very honest, intelligent rugby player but you need more to succeed at Internationall level. Personally I think Gatland is clutching at straws and doesn't know how to set Wales up to play winning rugby. He is short of personnel particularly in the back division. His biggest problem is continuing to pick the wrong 10. He is also asking a huge amount of Owen Williams in expecting him to step up & suddenly copy Owen Farrell who has had many years to develop his game to where it is now. 

Experimentation should have been done once the 2015 World Cup finished but Gatland stuck with the same old. If you are short of the top end quality then you can get by and be very effective with excellent coaching - look at the progress of Ireland under Schmidt who is a very clever tactician or indeed Scotland with Gregor. Who do we have - Howley. Enough said. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2017 at 9:58am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

How many tries does Hadleigh make for other players he had best hands of all our backs always seens to be in right place at right time. He was Probably best ball player on pitch last Saturday. He will do for me different player to Scott we been lucky to have had both and wish we still did but players move on. Age is only a number he wil still be about in two years some people are born Scarlets others like Hadleigh and Batclay embrace it and contribute a huge amount.


You have probably summed up the dilemma facing Wales with that comment. Hadleigh may have been our best ball player last Saturday which shows what we are lacking. Lets face it Hadleigh, in International terms, is adequate - he's reliable, usually takes the right options. Would he get in the English, Scottish or Irish teams no way. Lets not even mention Australia or New Zealand. To break down top defences, which SAfrica are not, you need far more than reliable & adequate. You need speed, ball playing ability & a coach who can devise a clever game plan. 

Hadleigh will not let Wales down; he has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but to shine in the International arena I don't think so. 

Personally I think he would get into most of those six nations teams more so than most Welsh centres Foxy apart.
I can't understand the downer on HP very skilful player, I know he has probably displaced Scott who is the local boy but you can't blame him for that all he has done is give his all and been the difference for us in many games.

Why the last thing I want is to underestimate Hadleigh's worth to the Scarlets - he has been fantastic so lets put that to bed. So you would select Hadleigh ahead of current British Lions centres for England & Ireland - Farrell & Henshaw? This is where I have the problem. He is 30 years old, is being asked to become a 2nd playmaker without the skill set i.e. short on pace & poor kicking game. It isn't going to work and its not his fault. He is a very honest, intelligent rugby player but you need more to succeed at Internationall level. Personally I think Gatland is clutching at straws and doesn't know how to set Wales up to play winning rugby. He is short of personnel particularly in the back division. His biggest problem is continuing to pick the wrong 10. He is also asking a huge amount of Owen Williams in expecting him to step up & suddenly copy Owen Farrell who has had many years to develop his game to where it is now. 

Experimentation should have been done once the 2015 World Cup finished but Gatland stuck with the same old. If you are short of the top end quality then you can get by and be very effective with excellent coaching - look at the progress of Ireland under Schmidt who is a very clever tactician or indeed Scotland with Gregor. Who do we have - Howley. Enough said. 
 
 
Farrell is a better 12 so is hens haw for Ireland . Personally I still think Scott is out best 12.
 
Parkes great guy, solid player and covers a lot of positions he  won't let wales down by any means, the form 12 in wales this year.
 
 
Owen Williams is ok  good hands and a kicking option but he lacks pace, size and can be a defensive weakness.
 
Roberts is the opposite size power and great in defence but  limited  in attack and has  average handling skills.
 
If Wales worked as hard on his skills as on his defence he could have been a great.
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 08 December 2017 at 9:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2017 at 10:27am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

How many tries does Hadleigh make for other players he had best hands of all our backs always seens to be in right place at right time. He was Probably best ball player on pitch last Saturday. He will do for me different player to Scott we been lucky to have had both and wish we still did but players move on. Age is only a number he wil still be about in two years some people are born Scarlets others like Hadleigh and Batclay embrace it and contribute a huge amount.


You have probably summed up the dilemma facing Wales with that comment. Hadleigh may have been our best ball player last Saturday which shows what we are lacking. Lets face it Hadleigh, in International terms, is adequate - he's reliable, usually takes the right options. Would he get in the English, Scottish or Irish teams no way. Lets not even mention Australia or New Zealand. To break down top defences, which SAfrica are not, you need far more than reliable & adequate. You need speed, ball playing ability & a coach who can devise a clever game plan. 

Hadleigh will not let Wales down; he has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but to shine in the International arena I don't think so. 

Personally I think he would get into most of those six nations teams more so than most Welsh centres Foxy apart.
I can't understand the downer on HP very skilful player, I know he has probably displaced Scott who is the local boy but you can't blame him for that all he has done is give his all and been the difference for us in many games.

Why the last thing I want is to underestimate Hadleigh's worth to the Scarlets - he has been fantastic so lets put that to bed. So you would select Hadleigh ahead of current British Lions centres for England & Ireland - Farrell & Henshaw? This is where I have the problem. He is 30 years old, is being asked to become a 2nd playmaker without the skill set i.e. short on pace & poor kicking game. It isn't going to work and its not his fault. He is a very honest, intelligent rugby player but you need more to succeed at Internationall level. Personally I think Gatland is clutching at straws and doesn't know how to set Wales up to play winning rugby. He is short of personnel particularly in the back division. His biggest problem is continuing to pick the wrong 10. He is also asking a huge amount of Owen Williams in expecting him to step up & suddenly copy Owen Farrell who has had many years to develop his game to where it is now. 

Experimentation should have been done once the 2015 World Cup finished but Gatland stuck with the same old. If you are short of the top end quality then you can get by and be very effective with excellent coaching - look at the progress of Ireland under Schmidt who is a very clever tactician or indeed Scotland with Gregor. Who do we have - Howley. Enough said. 
 
 
Farrell is a better 12 so is hens haw for Ireland . Personally I still think Scott is out best 12.
 
Parkes great guy, solid player and covers a lot of positions he  won't let wales down by any means, the form 12 in wales this year.
 
 
Owen Williams is ok  good hands and a kicking option but he lacks pace, size and can be a defensive weakness.
 
Roberts is the opposite size power and great in defence but  limited  in attack and has  average handling skills.
 
If Wales worked as hard on his skills as on his defence he could have been a great.
 
 

Totally agree with all your comments RR1972. With regard to Roberts he showed great skills when playing for the Lions alongside O'Driscoll in South Africa in 2009 getting player of the series I think. What happened when he came back to Wales - Warrenball took over and ruined him. 

I am not the greatest fan of Jiffy who seems to think that staying square and attacking certain shoulders is the answer to every problem but he commented over a year ago that we should be really working hard on our selected players skills as they are the best available. You keep their good points and work hard on their failings. We don't have enough choice to keep changing personnel we have to make the cream better. Since the last World Cup our best available centres haven't changed but Roberts has not progressed into a Sony Bill offloading machine like he could have.

Owen Farrell, in that 4 year period, has transformed his weaknesses into strengths. His range of passing when he played on the Lions tour in Australia was pretty weak but now he is among the cleverest passers in the game. It comes down to the difference Between excellent/good coaching and mediocre coaching. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feverpitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2017 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:


Not a playmaker.......seemed to do a job at 10 for Scarlets that guided us to go on to become champions.
 
this new way rubbish, needs to stop. th coaches are pretty much doing a copy and paste job of what the scarlets did last year. it will not be done successfully however as the coaches are too brainwashed in their old ways picking personnel that are not suited to that style.
 
To change the game...change the top.
 
as for Hadleigh Parkes...well what can I say? Is he a spectacular x factor player? no. He just does everything well, and more importantly everything right. when you make no mistakes, on an international debut, scoring 2 tries, 15 runs, made 37metres, 3 clean breaks, 3 defenders beaten, 13 passes (one below Biggar), 7 tackles 1missed.
 
contributed a fair bit to the victory. Man of the match? why not.


You must have been watching a different game to me both at the end of last season & last Saturday. Last season's play offs were won before he came on. At 10 he has never looked comfortable because his kicking out of hand is totally hit or miss. As for Saturday I never said he had a poor game just not MOM. I restate my MOM would have been Marx closely followed by AWJ.

I was watching the game that the stats are from. agree to disagree, but didn't think AWJ was MOM.
As for Marx, he was outstanding, but Man of the match these days are never given to the losing side.
As for Parkes at ten - played over 30 mins in final, played the same v Leinster in the semi. I am not saying he is an outside half, but he is a very handy playmaker. his passing is spot on. a playmaker is all about distribution - to which he is VERY good at. His handling is top drawer. if you think otherwise, then we shall again, agree to disagree but in my opinion, his distribution is a key part of his game and Scarlets game.


We shall agree to disagree. The whole point, in my mind, in playing a 2nd playmaker is that you have two players who are comfortable at 10 : Ford/Farrell, Jones/Henson, Foley/Giteau. Hadleigh does not fit that mould in any shape or form. I tend to share Stevo's view that if you want an attacker who will unlock defences then you go with Scott at 12. Hadleigh has been a wonderful signing for the Scarlets but what message does it send out to young Welsh centres when a 30 year old New Zealander gets picked. By the time the World Cup comes around, which the coaches are supposed to be experimenting towards, then surely Owen Watkins is a better bet than Hadleigh and should have been given more gametime. 



Scott a playmaker ! If he was then he would fit into Pivacs style and still be at the region next year, and wouldn't have been left out of Wales squad. He doesn't have a kicking game and passing is hit and miss, squandering 2 on 1's and passing direct into touch are things i have seen him do more than any other centre in Wales over the last 5-6 years. Don't get me wrong, he has been a good regional player and has fitted I to Warrenball when Dr Bob not available but is not a skillfull player.. apart from the try against Harlequins and the strip, chip and chase try against England I struggle to have many outstanding memories of Scott's attacking contributions to a game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2017 at 7:25pm
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