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Steff off injured

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Mr Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 9:27am
Really unhappy for Steff injury. In my view World Rugby has great responsability for dont care about this match out of International window..cant stop an accord between two feds, but could try to introduce a minimum weeks rest for players from the last match played with the clubs..
Injuries are part of the game, badly, but try to prevent I think is their job..
I dont like this new business of money match, looks like a circo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 9:53am
If a coach says an injury doesn’t look good, then generally it isn’t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 10:11am
But the WRU got 500 thousand pounds for this game! That's what counts, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LLANDRE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 10:15am
Makes a mockery of the Welsh cap.   Very sad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:00am
I represent one of the more "pro-Wales" posters on this board and will say I also think criticisms are completely valid and there's no way players involved in the pro 14 final should have featured. As a head coach I think Gatland should really have taken this on board for the welfare of his players. I completely agree that: a) players are playing too many games and b) there are too many international fixtures. Goddamn it. OK, injuries are fact of the game but it's frustrating it was in an exhibition match. The win means almost nothing to me, I'm afraid to say.

I have little interest in summer tours in general, let alone an exhibition match out of the window. The AIs are now over-saturated and bore me (in part due to our poor results, on-going arguments about a 4th test, and losing key players at an important stage of the club season). Also, I think the World Cup is now far too dominant an influence (or justification) on everything international-rugby related - including flogging tired players. It is one tournament every four years and it is either a "world cup year" or teams are in the midst of preparing for it. It's not as though the sides rarely play each other either, as the top 10 sides play each other at a high frequency. Of course I'd love Wales to win it but it never seems to go away.

For example, Gatland's comments are apparently: "Wales head coach Gatland countered by describing those criticising the Test match as "bitter and twisted" and insisted it was vital for his preparations for the 2019 World Cup in Japan"
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44312774
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:09am
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:


Quite so. But how do you bring players through into international rugby? And actually we did not have many new caps last night. There should have been more cohesion than there was. 

Well you could start by playing matches in the designated International windows and not flogging players who have spent the latter part of the season playing in semi finals and cup finals.

If it is his cruciate that has gone (and that is being reported by some on social media) then I will flip the next time I see the WRU talking about player welfare.. Player Welfare? Do me a [beep]ing favour AngryAngryAngry


That's a politician's answer to my question. I agree about not flogging players outside international windows- ie international windows is when players play international rugby and they do not play internationals at any other time. The IRB should actually enforce that. There's an issue here though. Players demand as much money as they can get- understandably. The only way the administrators can raise the money to pay the wages is to put on more games ( unless they have an outside - sugardaddy- source of funding.).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:17am
Serious knee injuries have a huge impact on players speed, particularly as a wing. Unfortunate to say the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:41am
Originally posted by John John wrote:


Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:


Quite so. But how do you bring players through into international rugby? And actually we did not have many new caps last night. There should have been more cohesion than there was. 

Well you could start by playing matches in the designated International windows and not flogging players who have spent the latter part of the season playing in semi finals and cup finals.

If it is his cruciate that has gone (and that is being reported by some on social media) then I will flip the next time I see the WRU talking about player welfare.. Player Welfare? Do me a [beep]ing favour AngryAngryAngry


That's a politician's answer to my question. I agree about not flogging players outside international windows- ie international windows is when players play international rugby and they do not play internationals at any other time. The IRB should actually enforce that. There's an issue here though. Players demand as much money as they can get- understandably. The only way the administrators can raise the money to pay the wages is to put on more games ( unless they have an outside - sugardaddy- source of funding.).

My answer is far removed from being a politicians answer in that it was straight and to the point. Designated International windows are there for a reason. Don`t play International games outside these windows. It`s pretty easy really.

As for wages, we play on average 12 International games per season (4 Autumn Internationals, 5 6 Nations games & 3 summer games). That rises again in a World Cup Year. We play more then enough Internationals and the WRU gets more than enough revenue to fund the Regions a little better than it does. 
In Pivac we trust
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:31pm
I didn’t realise that Steff was on a NDC, I thought that he was probably 100% Scarlets paid and if so we will end up paying his wages whilst he is injured. I know that happens in most walks of life, but if I got injured working for another employer then my current employer wouldn’t be amused.
If he is on an NDC, then at least the WRU will be picking up most of the tab. Either way, I thought that the NDC was brought in to control the number of games players played per season, to look after the ‘players welfare’. I don’t see how this can be true in this case, Steff was selected to play just 7 days after the pro 14 final, he had played 3 knockout games for the Scarlets in the buildup to this game, surely Gatland could have selected North on the wing and slotted someone else in centre to give Steff a week’s rest ahead of the 2 Argentina tests to come.
Well I suppose he will now get a long rest from competitive rugby, but it’s the Scarlets yet again who are going to suffer most. We lost foxy last season to injury sustained in a game outside of the international window, and we lost Jake 2 weeks later.
The WRU need to take a long hard look at themselves, but they won’t, as we know, they made 500k from this pathetic excuse for a match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

I didn’t realise that Steff was on a NDC, I thought that he was probably 100% Scarlets paid and if so we will end up paying his wages whilst he is injured. I know that happens in most walks of life, but if I got injured working for another employer then my current employer wouldn’t be amused.
If he is on an NDC, then at least the WRU will be picking up most of the tab. Either way, I thought that the NDC was brought in to control the number of games players played per season, to look after the ‘players welfare’. I don’t see how this can be true in this case, Steff was selected to play just 7 days after the pro 14 final, he had played 3 knockout games for the Scarlets in the buildup to this game, surely Gatland could have selected North on the wing and slotted someone else in centre to give Steff a week’s rest ahead of the 2 Argentina tests to come.
Well I suppose he will now get a long rest from competitive rugby, but it’s the Scarlets yet again who are going to suffer most. We lost foxy last season to injury sustained in a game outside of the international window, and we lost Jake 2 weeks later.
The WRU need to take a long hard look at themselves, but they won’t, as we know, they made 500k from this pathetic excuse for a match.
Steff isn’t on an NDC
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rich (Bris) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 2:30pm
But as injured on Wales duty I guess that's why they will pay yes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 2:47pm
There are a number of rather complicated issues which overlap in somewhat unclear ways - these are my views, which as usual many will disagree with:

1. Number of tests/internationals: there are too many in the modern game. The number should be reduced. The only reason why we have so many is cash to pay the blazers (and, to a lesser extent, the players). 

2. International windows: these make some sort of sense, to allow for planning, so basically I'm in favour.

3. Injuries in games played outside the international windows: These are down to bad luck more than anything else. A player can get injured at any time, or even not during a match - there have been a number of shower-related injuries or bike related injuries in the past, FFS!

4. The timing of the Wales - SA game: poor, especially as the coaches chose a number of Scarlets. No player involved in the pro-14 final should have been selected for this test.

5. English hypocrisy: they criticise Wales for 'playing outside the window', and yet England played the Barbarians on 27 May, and will go on to play 3 full tests against South Africa - so hardly 'looking after their players', IMO. Wales are only playing 3 tests. How was the Baa-baas game considered? Was it a 'test', if so was it 'outside the window', and if it was, did the Aviva clubs complain and withdraw their players? All I can say, is, the Baa-baas game was listed as ENGLAND v the Barbarians (not an 'England Selection' or suchlike), and most (maybe all?) the team were already capped, some with vast experience - Robshaw, Launchbury, Marler, May, Daly etc. - so hardly a 'B' team. Yet, because of the 'window', they refused to release 3 Welsh players for a week later. Go figure...

So, in short, I wish the Wales v SA game had not been played at all (to give players a break, especially the Scarlets) but the English seem to cheerfully flog their own players in a very dubious manner, while criticising Wales. A bit like the Tories telling everyone how wonderful the NHS is in England, and how crap it is in Wales, really!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

There are a number of rather complicated issues which overlap in somewhat unclear ways - these are my views, which as usual many will disagree with:

1. Number of tests/internationals: there are too many in the modern game. The number should be reduced. The only reason why we have so many is cash to pay the blazers (and, to a lesser extent, the players). 
We have them because they make a profit, which helps fund all levels of the game, including ours
2. International windows: these make some sort of sense, to allow for planning, so basically I'm in favour.
The principle is sound. without them, Tonga and Samoa would never raise a team as all their players are abroad and wouldn't be released. I'm not sure the timing of the windows makes sense and I'd like to see the 6N at the end of the domestic season, followed by the Summer tours.
3. Injuries in games played outside the international windows: These are down to bad luck more than anything else. A player can get injured at any time, or even not during a match - there have been a number of shower-related injuries or bike related injuries in the past, FFS!

4. The timing of the Wales - SA game: poor, especially as the coaches chose a number of Scarlets. No player involved in the pro-14 final should have been selected for this test.
Agreed - except we make up such a big part of the squad it was difficult to have a team without us!

5. English hypocrisy: they criticise Wales for 'playing outside the window', and yet England played the Barbarians on 27 May, and will go on to play 3 full tests against South Africa - so hardly 'looking after their players', IMO. Wales are only playing 3 tests. How was the Baa-baas game considered? Was it a 'test', if so was it 'outside the window', and if it was, did the Aviva clubs complain and withdraw their players? All I can say, is, the Baa-baas game was listed as ENGLAND v the Barbarians (not an 'England Selection' or suchlike), and most (maybe all?) the team were already capped, some with vast experience - Robshaw, Launchbury, Marler, May, Daly etc. - so hardly a 'B' team. Yet, because of the 'window', they refused to release 3 Welsh players for a week later. Go figure...
There's no English hypocrisy. PRL have a financial agreement with the RFU so they release players for the Baa Baas. They have no such agreement with WRU so they don't. That's just business. It's why we release players for the 4th AI and yesterday. We wouldn't have released someone like Werner Kruger or Jonny McNichol to the Baa Baas. (unless there was a financial compensation)

So, in short, I wish the Wales v SA game had not been played at all (to give players a break, especially the Scarlets) but the English seem to cheerfully flog their own players in a very dubious manner, while criticising Wales. A bit like the Tories telling everyone how wonderful the NHS is in England, and how crap it is in Wales, really!


Edited by Wasp - 03 June 2018 at 4:31pm
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfing-mtber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 5:44pm
Steff sent home and Samson is now injured!!! 😤
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

There are a number of rather complicated issues which overlap in somewhat unclear ways - these are my views, which as usual many will disagree with:

1. Number of tests/internationals: there are too many in the modern game. The number should be reduced. The only reason why we have so many is cash to pay the blazers (and, to a lesser extent, the players). 
We have them because they make a profit, which helps fund all levels of the game, including ours
2. International windows: these make some sort of sense, to allow for planning, so basically I'm in favour.
The principle is sound. without them, Tonga and Samoa would never raise a team as all their players are abroad and wouldn't be released. I'm not sure the timing of the windows makes sense and I'd like to see the 6N at the end of the domestic season, followed by the Summer tours.
3. Injuries in games played outside the international windows: These are down to bad luck more than anything else. A player can get injured at any time, or even not during a match - there have been a number of shower-related injuries or bike related injuries in the past, FFS!

4. The timing of the Wales - SA game: poor, especially as the coaches chose a number of Scarlets. No player involved in the pro-14 final should have been selected for this test.
Agreed - except we make up such a big part of the squad it was difficult to have a team without us!

5. English hypocrisy: they criticise Wales for 'playing outside the window', and yet England played the Barbarians on 27 May, and will go on to play 3 full tests against South Africa - so hardly 'looking after their players', IMO. Wales are only playing 3 tests. How was the Baa-baas game considered? Was it a 'test', if so was it 'outside the window', and if it was, did the Aviva clubs complain and withdraw their players? All I can say, is, the Baa-baas game was listed as ENGLAND v the Barbarians (not an 'England Selection' or suchlike), and most (maybe all?) the team were already capped, some with vast experience - Robshaw, Launchbury, Marler, May, Daly etc. - so hardly a 'B' team. Yet, because of the 'window', they refused to release 3 Welsh players for a week later. Go figure...
There's no English hypocrisy. PRL have a financial agreement with the RFU so they release players for the Baa Baas. They have no such agreement with WRU so they don't. That's just business. It's why we release players for the 4th AI and yesterday. We wouldn't have released someone like Werner Kruger or Jonny McNichol to the Baa Baas. (unless there was a financial compensation)

So, in short, I wish the Wales v SA game had not been played at all (to give players a break, especially the Scarlets) but the English seem to cheerfully flog their own players in a very dubious manner, while criticising Wales. A bit like the Tories telling everyone how wonderful the NHS is in England, and how crap it is in Wales, really!

Well, we agree on most things.


The English are still hypocrites, though. Your reason for their attitude is that we have no business agreement with the PRL, which would be some sort of reason even though I might not be happy with the way they implement it. 

BUT that is not the reason given by PRL boss Mark McCafferty!

Wales' out-of-window Test match against South Africa in Washington on Saturday should not be taking place, says Premiership Rugby boss Mark McCafferty. 

No English-based Welsh players have been released, with McCafferty saying it places an "unnecessary burden" on the clubs and players involved.

The full story is on the BBC at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44328757

So, McCafferty is implying very clearly that, for three Welsh players to be released to play on June 2nd, it would be an "unnecessary burden" on the clubs and players involved. He does not, apparently, think it is an 'unnecessary burden' on the clubs or players to appear for England v Barbarians  a week earlier. (The result - England 45, Barbarians 63 - might suggest that, on the contrary, it was a bridge too far for many of the England players.)

McCafferty can't have it both ways: either it is a player welfare issue - in which case neither game should have taken place - or it's just a contract thing, in which case he should stick to that argument. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wetweatherwinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 6:30pm
ACL usually goes when either leg is twisted when in a flexed position or planting the foot when side stepping or pushing off and there's a slight rotational movement. Hyper extension can sometimes lead to PCL damage (posterior cruciate ligament). Usually more complicated operation because the graft is different. Either way it was a nasty one. Nowadays these operations are far more successful and the rehab is good. He’s young and fit. I’m sure he’ll come back better and stronger.
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