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The Brexit bonus...

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Ffidel Bennett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Fake news to bash on brexit. Any excuse to move their business abroad for cheap af Labor.
 

Exactly - It's called Globalism or Neo-liberalism and it's been the main driving force in the west for years.

It also works within the EU, which was established to promote "the free movement of Capital and Labour" within its member countries. That is you can move the capital (investment) to where the labour (wages) is cheapest eg Poland or east Europe. 
Who does this benefit? Not the workers who are in a race to the bottom (lowest wages). It benefits the richest 1 % with the money to invest and make more money.
 As noted  in another post the Schaeffler workers were not blaming Brexit as they had seen their work decrease in the  years before. However the media immediately implied that it was due to Brexit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 7:29pm
Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."

So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."

So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?
I would rather believe postcode than anything the bbc says.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2018 at 10:10pm
aber-fan
 As I argued in my previous post, the EU is just a cosy capitalist club designed to let capitalists accumulate more capital by playing off workers in different countries against each other. Surely you don't expect me to defend or mourn such an organisation just because some Neanderthal* Empire Loyalists  also want to leave for other reasons. 
Once out, it is up to the UK, who to trade with and although we currently behave completely like US lapdogs (despite being in a much bigger organisation-the EU) and sanction any countries which our US masters want to destroy or dominate. The Chinese and Russians are currently jointly working on long-range, wide bodied airliners, of the type which Airbus has a lot of experience in producing. If Airbus decide they no longer want the UK to make their wings, I'm sure our skills will be appreciated. elsewhere. 
* apologies to Neanderthals if I have insulted them by comparing them to Sun readers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:41am
Our politicians have in effect given over a majority of the responsibility for our laws , tariffs, funding / redistribution duties, licensing, rules and regulations over to the EU for the past 40 years. But now faced with the monumental task of actually doing the job they were voted to do. This is probably what scares them the most. There'll be far less time for reality tv roles, ghost writing columns and endless meaningless tv punch and judy interviews... when brexit kicks in. Bless. No doubt they will be demanding huge wage increases in order to do their actual job.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:58am
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

aber-fan
 As I argued in my previous post, the EU is just a cosy capitalist club designed to let capitalists accumulate more capital by playing off workers in different countries against each other. Surely you don't expect me to defend or mourn such an organisation just because some Neanderthal* Empire Loyalists  also want to leave for other reasons. 
Once out, it is up to the UK, who to trade with and although we currently behave completely like US lapdogs (despite being in a much bigger organisation-the EU) and sanction any countries which our US masters want to destroy or dominate. The Chinese and Russians are currently jointly working on long-range, wide bodied airliners, of the type which Airbus has a lot of experience in producing. If Airbus decide they no longer want the UK to make their wings, I'm sure our skills will be appreciated. elsewhere. 
* apologies to Neanderthals if I have insulted them by comparing them to Sun readers.

Totally agree. Its been an undemocratic unelected commission and lovely coporate lobby group for decades. Isnt it strange how the more politicians we seem to have across europe Uk wales etc (and the numbers have trebled in the past 40 years with endless EU expansion and devolved governments.) yet with the vast rise in politicians we see the massive corporations regulated even less, less taxed, less answerable than ever before. Lets do the maths and lets join up the dots. One way or another these politicans seem to lose their teeth. How and why? Well theyre all in bed together and to play on the teeth analogy , lets just say the massive corporations offer these politicians free dental care for life if they promise not to bite them. 

Who could ever forget that paragon of virtue, george gideon osbourne celebrating as the government clawed all of 3% in taxes from google. What a champion of wealth redistribution eh? Or the panama papers where the endless offshore tax havens for all massive corporations were revealed and absolutely nothing was done about. This is why we see endless virtue signalling. Politicians trained in how to fake sincerity, look tough, clench those fingers point forcefully shout over each other on tv. All a ruse to simply avoid actual proper discussion and debate. Its mostly just panto. 

As for the whole brexit who lied, the mass hysteria exaggeration and dodgy data on both sides was embarrassing and deliberate. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 8:08am
As long as they keep the trains running on time....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 10:09am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."

So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?

I have to say I have been a little surprised at the tone of your recent posts bearing in mind I usually find your views well thought out and carefully presented. The two examples of companies closing/moving are absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. More to do with falling demand - in a global economy these are the harsh realities of trading. Obviously it is a very sad day for the people affected but harsh economic decisions are happening all over Europe every day. 

As for your comment regarding racism I will, as a Brexit supporter, choose to ignore it and explain it as you having a bad day!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."

So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?
I would rather believe postcode than anything the bbc says.

It's not the BBC saying it, but a spokesman for the company. They are just reporting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

aber-fan
 As I argued in my previous post, the EU is just a cosy capitalist club designed to let capitalists accumulate more capital by playing off workers in different countries against each other. Surely you don't expect me to defend or mourn such an organisation just because some Neanderthal* Empire Loyalists  also want to leave for other reasons. 
Once out, it is up to the UK, who to trade with and although we currently behave completely like US lapdogs (despite being in a much bigger organisation-the EU) and sanction any countries which our US masters want to destroy or dominate. The Chinese and Russians are currently jointly working on long-range, wide bodied airliners, of the type which Airbus has a lot of experience in producing. If Airbus decide they no longer want the UK to make their wings, I'm sure our skills will be appreciated. elsewhere. 
* apologies to Neanderthals if I have insulted them by comparing them to Sun readers.

Well, you're half right.

The British do indeed behave as lapdogs of the USA (the Iraq war being a recent, and tragic, example). 

You seem to think that we'll become more independent of the USA outside the EU, and that Broughton will sell wings to the Russians.

I can confidently predict that neither of those things will come to pass.

You know the old saying about the tent - it's better to be on the inside pissing out, than on the outside pissing in. I thnk that sums up the position the UK will find itself if/when Brexit happens.

BTW - what is your view on Scottish independence? They voted against Brexit, and if it is forced upon them ,there is a real possibility that Scotland will leave the UK.

If and when that happens, Wales will be linked to England, with its strong Tory majority. Do you REALLY want to be ruled by the Tories until kingdom come?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

aber-fan
 As I argued in my previous post, the EU is just a cosy capitalist club designed to let capitalists accumulate more capital by playing off workers in different countries against each other. Surely you don't expect me to defend or mourn such an organisation just because some Neanderthal* Empire Loyalists  also want to leave for other reasons. 
Once out, it is up to the UK, who to trade with and although we currently behave completely like US lapdogs (despite being in a much bigger organisation-the EU) and sanction any countries which our US masters want to destroy or dominate. The Chinese and Russians are currently jointly working on long-range, wide bodied airliners, of the type which Airbus has a lot of experience in producing. If Airbus decide they no longer want the UK to make their wings, I'm sure our skills will be appreciated. elsewhere. 
* apologies to Neanderthals if I have insulted them by comparing them to Sun readers.

Totally agree. Its been an undemocratic unelected commission and lovely coporate lobby group for decades. Isnt it strange how the more politicians we seem to have across europe Uk wales etc (and the numbers have trebled in the past 40 years with endless EU expansion and devolved governments.) yet with the vast rise in politicians we see the massive corporations regulated even less, less taxed, less answerable than ever before. Lets do the maths and lets join up the dots. One way or another these politicans seem to lose their teeth. How and why? Well theyre all in bed together and to play on the teeth analogy , lets just say the massive corporations offer these politicians free dental care for life if they promise not to bite them. 

Who could ever forget that paragon of virtue, george gideon osbourne celebrating as the government clawed all of 3% in taxes from google. What a champion of wealth redistribution eh? Or the panama papers where the endless offshore tax havens for all massive corporations were revealed and absolutely nothing was done about. This is why we see endless virtue signalling. Politicians trained in how to fake sincerity, look tough, clench those fingers point forcefully shout over each other on tv. All a ruse to simply avoid actual proper discussion and debate. Its mostly just panto. 

As for the whole brexit who lied, the mass hysteria exaggeration and dodgy data on both sides was embarrassing and deliberate. 



I totally agree with the bit in bold- our (UK) politicians are a very corrupt lot, as I may have mentioned before (unless that was in another forum...?). Somehow, I think that leaving the EU will make things even worse, as the Tories are inextricably linked to the 'city' and all its shenanigans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

aber-fan
 As I argued in my previous post, the EU is just a cosy capitalist club designed to let capitalists accumulate more capital by playing off workers in different countries against each other. Surely you don't expect me to defend or mourn such an organisation just because some Neanderthal* Empire Loyalists  also want to leave for other reasons. 
Once out, it is up to the UK, who to trade with and although we currently behave completely like US lapdogs (despite being in a much bigger organisation-the EU) and sanction any countries which our US masters want to destroy or dominate. The Chinese and Russians are currently jointly working on long-range, wide bodied airliners, of the type which Airbus has a lot of experience in producing. If Airbus decide they no longer want the UK to make their wings, I'm sure our skills will be appreciated. elsewhere. 
* apologies to Neanderthals if I have insulted them by comparing them to Sun readers.

Well, you're half right.

The British do indeed behave as lapdogs of the USA (the Iraq war being a recent, and tragic, example). 

You seem to think that we'll become more independent of the USA outside the EU, and that Broughton will sell wings to the Russians.

I can confidently predict that neither of those things will come to pass.

You know the old saying about the tent - it's better to be on the inside pissing out, than on the outside pissing in. I thnk that sums up the position the UK will find itself if/when Brexit happens.

BTW - what is your view on Scottish independence? They voted against Brexit, and if it is forced upon them ,there is a real possibility that Scotland will leave the UK.

If and when that happens, Wales will be linked to England, with its strong Tory majority. Do you REALLY want to be ruled by the Tories until kingdom come?

If the Scots decide to vote to leave the Uk there is nothing that we can really do to stop them - can't really see that as a fault of Brexit supporters. Personally I would much prefer to see Northern Ireland get independence - then we can stop having a Westminster Government being dictated to by a few Ulster folk!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."

So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?

I have to say I have been a little surprised at the tone of your recent posts bearing in mind I usually find your views well thought out and carefully presented. The two examples of companies closing/moving are absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. More to do with falling demand - in a global economy these are the harsh realities of trading. Obviously it is a very sad day for the people affected but harsh economic decisions are happening all over Europe every day. 

As for your comment regarding racism I will, as a Brexit supporter, choose to ignore it and explain it as you having a bad day!!!!!

Well, I was having a bad day as it happens - but I do get VERY angry at the thought that the Brexit con was brought about by the lies of Farage, Boris and the rest. 

You may or may not choose to believe what the company in Llanelli said - namely that uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one of the factors leading to closure. I did make an assumption about the other closure in Scotland - my mistake.

The fact is that as it hasn't happened yet, there is bound to be speculation from supporters and opponents about the economic costs (I doubt that there will be benefits, but you may disagree). One thing is certain - before Brexit, my pounds on trips to France were buying €1.30 - €1.40 and more before the vote... being frequently above that level in 2015 - since the vote, the exchange rate has crashed - the best rate in 2018 was a bit above €1.15, and is currently just under that level. Now, I know that harold Wilson spoke about 'the pound in your pocket' when attempting to justify a devaluation of the £, but it dose have these consequences:

1. For those of us who travel frequently to the eurozone, everything costs around 15% more than it did a short while ago.
2. For those who import goods from the eurozone - and we import A LOT of food from there - the cost has increased by a similar amount.
3. Imports from the USA will also have increased in a comparable way.

TBH, I have not seen a single bit of proof that we in the UK will benefit economically from Brexit - the only 'benefit' (if such it is) will be to make it harder for people to come into the UK to work as dentists, nurses doctors - and, OK, plumbers and labourers. Are you really surprised that I believe that many people voted Brexit out of xenophobia? It seems self-evident to me - and the evidence is there to back that up:


I actually know personally a lovely German lady who decided to return 'home' after Brexit... someone who lived and worked here for more than 20 years. 

These are very sad, and dangerous times we live in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 3:02pm
What we do outside the EU is totally up to us. I certainly hope that we give up our role as the lap-dog of the aggressive US Empire, with its 800 bases on foreign soil and continual threats, sanctions, insurgencies and attacks against anyone who do not bow or worship at the altar of US led neo-liberalism. It is obvious that the future (unless it ends in a nuclear holocaust) lies with the BRICS countries and the third world. In the last 25 years China has lifted 700 million people out of poverty!! and its plan is to lift everyone out of poverty in the next 10 years. These are the people who need us and we need to work and trade with. Perhaps we will then begin to make up for our shameful  years of slave trading and colonisation. Cymru was of course England's first colony and in the future I hope that we also will begin to assert our independence and  at least develop a more equal and less subservient relationship. 
To me the above is obvious, but clearly most people still accept the distorted worldview of the mainstream media  Fortunately there is an alternative media on the web and more and more are, beginning to abandon the BBC's ruling class interpretation of the world -so much so that there is the start of a panic and the call for more censorship of social media and alternative sites.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Ffidel - it wasn't the 'media' - this is a direct quote from the BBC report:

<span style="color: rgb64, 64, 64; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">"The firm said: "The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market."</span>
<span style="color: rgb64, 64, 64; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">
</span>
So - not the only consideration,  but it didn't help, did it?

I have been baffled for some time at the alliance over Brexit between purported left wingers such as yourself, and the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Express and Sun on the other. Somehow, I didn't expect you and others of like views to get into bed with that lot!

It has to be remembered that Brexit hasn't happened yet - IMHO, things will get very much worse if and when it does. I do worry about the future of Airbus in N Wales, for example... it's already quite a logistical issue to ship the wings over to France. If on top of that there are red tape issues relating to customs and tariffs, etc, don't you think it likely that they'll just say: "Sod this for a lark - let's just make the wings in the EU'?


I have to say I have been a little surprised at the tone of your recent posts bearing in mind I usually find your views well thought out and carefully presented. The two examples of companies closing/moving are absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. More to do with falling demand - in a global economy these are the harsh realities of trading. Obviously it is a very sad day for the people affected but harsh economic decisions are happening all over Europe every day. 

As for your comment regarding racism I will, as a Brexit supporter, choose to ignore it and explain it as you having a bad day!!!!!


Well, I was having a bad day as it happens - but I do get VERY angry at the thought that the Brexit con was brought about by the lies of Farage, Boris and the rest. 

You may or may not choose to believe what the company in Llanelli said - namely that uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one of the factors leading to closure. I did make an assumption about the other closure in Scotland - my mistake.

The fact is that as it hasn't happened yet, there is bound to be speculation from supporters and opponents about the economic costs (I doubt that there will be benefits, but you may disagree). One thing is certain - before Brexit, my pounds on trips to France were buying €1.30 - €1.40 and more before the vote... being frequently above that level in 2015 - since the vote, the exchange rate has crashed - the best rate in 2018 was a bit above €1.15, and is currently just under that level. Now, I know that harold Wilson spoke about 'the pound in your pocket' when attempting to justify a devaluation of the £, but it dose have these consequences:

1. For those of us who travel frequently to the eurozone, everything costs around 15% more than it did a short while ago.
2. For those who import goods from the eurozone - and we import A LOT of food from there - the cost has increased by a similar amount.
3. Imports from the USA will also have increased in a comparable way.

TBH, I have not seen a single bit of proof that we in the UK will benefit economically from Brexit - the only 'benefit' (if such it is) will be to make it harder for people to come into the UK to work as dentists, nurses doctors - and, OK, plumbers and labourers. Are you really surprised that I believe that many people voted Brexit out of xenophobia? It seems self-evident to me - and the evidence is there to back that up:


I actually know personally a lovely German lady who decided to return 'home' after Brexit... someone who lived and worked here for more than 20 years. 

These are very sad, and dangerous times we live in.


It’s to do with the fall in demand. Brexit has minimum effect. The article is very misleading. I was at the meeting where I was told I was losing my job. The media are obsessed with brexit. They’ve twisted the statement. Brexit is topical so they’re making their headlines topical. What we were told was totally different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 November 2018 at 4:08pm
If it did not reinforce the overwhelming anti-Brexit ideology of the t.v. company bosses, do you think it would have been mentioned at all?
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