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The Brexit bonus...

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 4:46pm
shes no chance just a reduced defeat...only 14 tory switchers so far
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 6:11pm
I think I speak for the majority of the country Confused
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2019 at 10:36pm
so the EU have cynically used the northern ireland peace process to destroy brexit and all the Mp's can do is blame may and say nothing of the disgraceful cynicism of the EU? Easier to attack one person than 28 countries...Bunch of cowards.

Edited by roy munster - 12 March 2019 at 10:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 7:58am
So MPs are voting on whether they would accept a no deal today. I fully expect them to reject this, continuing the limbo. My question is this: a vote on no deal could have actually happened right after triggering A50. And then from that position the Government said, right OK then no deal is off the table so we need a deal.

I fail to understand how this has been managed so poorly: it is worth re-emphasising that Brexit is 16 days away (16!) and these votes are only happening now. That really isn't the EU's fault whatsoever and something I certainly do hold TM and her Government accountable for.

This has been a monumental screw up and will be taught as an example of why referenda are not used that often. Or why spines are needed in our next set of politicians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 11:44am
I disagree about no deal. Take away no deal and you lose what little negotiating power we already had. the eu have been laughing at us for 3 years. theyve done nothing just let us fight amongst ourselves. The EU used the northern ireland peace process to screw brexit. Everyone is blaming may, its nothing to do with her. Its the EU who will not give us a binding legal agreement that frees us from the backstop. As for demanding a general election? what will that solve atm? another leadership contest, another year of campaigning, amidst endless brexit negotiating, at the end of all that no doubt there will be demands for another referendum ...years and years more of paralysis ?

Back in the real world, the EU have passed laws and regs just arrived here. That means every sme must register on the biggest databases ever simply to tender for work. It takes most sme's a year to even get all the information downloaded. In many cases it will wipe out small sme's who simply cannot cope. This in turn will hand evermore business to massive corporations who can afford the managers to deal with this nonsense. One consequence of this pro corporation websites is that all contracts across the UK transporting disabled children will be terminated and everyone will have to start again. No doubt global tax dodging behemoths like uber will clean up just as theyve done in london. They dont pay license fees to councils like everyone else, they dont have their vehicles checked by councils like everyone else, no one can inspect them from councils, their drivers are not crb checked like everyone else, they dont do the knowledge like everyone else, they dont have meters like everyone else, theyre not even insured as taxis lol Its  a joke. Oh and guess who allowed them in?  The EU commission, a lady called nellie krus. A few months after she allowed uber into London. She left the european union and joined the board of Uber. Classy. Meanwhile an estimated 100,000 cabbies were laid off. This is just 1 tiny example , speak to huw owens about how the EU affects his businesses. 


Edited by roy munster - 13 March 2019 at 11:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I disagree about no deal. Take away no deal and you lose what little negotiating power we already had. the eu have been laughing at us for 3 years. theyve done nothing just let us fight amongst ourselves. The EU used the northern ireland peace process to screw brexit. Everyone is blaming may, its nothing to do with her. Its the EU who will not give us a binding legal agreement that frees us from the backstop. As for demanding a general election? what will that solve atm? another leadership contest, another year of campaigning, amidst endless brexit negotiating, at the end of all that no doubt there will be demands for another referendum ...years and years more of paralysis ?

Back in the real world, the EU have passed laws and regs just arrived here. That means every sme must register on the biggest databases ever simply to tender for work. It takes most sme's a year to even get all the information downloaded. In many cases it will wipe out small sme's who simply cannot cope. This in turn will hand evermore business to massive corporations who can afford the managers to deal with this nonsense. One consequence of this pro corporation websites is that all contracts across the UK transporting disabled children will be terminated and everyone will have to start again. No doubt global tax dodging behemoths like uber will clean up just as theyve done in london. They dont pay license fees to councils like everyone else, they dont have their vehicles checked by councils like everyone else, no one can inspect them from councils, their drivers are not crb checked like everyone else, they dont do the knowledge like everyone else, they dont have meters like everyone else, theyre not even insured as taxis lol Its  a joke. Oh and guess who allowed them in?  The EU commission, a lady called nellie krus. A few months after she allowed uber into London. She left the european union and joined the board of Uber. Classy. Meanwhile an estimated 100,000 cabbies were laid off. This is just 1 tiny example , speak to huw owens about how the EU affects his businesses. 

Well Roy that sorry tale sums up very succinctly why I voted to leave. Accountability in public office is paramount. I am afraid May will go down in history as the PM who messed up Brexit. Why would the Tory party elect a remainer to see through the most important deal of the last 40/50 years? No deal was at the outset better than a bad deal & if preparations for no deal had been undertaken on day one we would not be sitting here 16 days from leaving facing all this uncertainty. I am sorry the whole negotiation has been badly managed from day 1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I disagree about no deal. Take away no deal and you lose what little negotiating power we already had. the eu have been laughing at us for 3 years. theyve done nothing just let us fight amongst ourselves. The EU used the northern ireland peace process to screw brexit. Everyone is blaming may, its nothing to do with her. Its the EU who will not give us a binding legal agreement that frees us from the backstop. As for demanding a general election? what will that solve atm? another leadership contest, another year of campaigning, amidst endless brexit negotiating, at the end of all that no doubt there will be demands for another referendum ...years and years more of paralysis ?

Back in the real world, the EU have passed laws and regs just arrived here. That means every sme must register on the biggest databases ever simply to tender for work. It takes most sme's a year to even get all the information downloaded. In many cases it will wipe out small sme's who simply cannot cope. This in turn will hand evermore business to massive corporations who can afford the managers to deal with this nonsense. One consequence of this pro corporation websites is that all contracts across the UK transporting disabled children will be terminated and everyone will have to start again. No doubt global tax dodging behemoths like uber will clean up just as theyve done in london. They dont pay license fees to councils like everyone else, they dont have their vehicles checked by councils like everyone else, no one can inspect them from councils, their drivers are not crb checked like everyone else, they dont do the knowledge like everyone else, they dont have meters like everyone else, theyre not even insured as taxis lol Its  a joke. Oh and guess who allowed them in?  The EU commission, a lady called nellie krus. A few months after she allowed uber into London. She left the european union and joined the board of Uber. Classy. Meanwhile an estimated 100,000 cabbies were laid off. This is just 1 tiny example , speak to huw owens about how the EU affects his businesses. 

Well Roy that sorry tale sums up very succinctly why I voted to leave. Accountability in public office is paramount. I am afraid May will go down in history as the PM who messed up Brexit. Why would the Tory party elect a remainer to see through the most important deal of the last 40/50 years? No deal was at the outset better than a bad deal & if preparations for no deal had been undertaken on day one we would not be sitting here 16 days from leaving facing all this uncertainty. I am sorry the whole negotiation has been badly managed from day 1. 

I agree with much of what you say. A brexiteer would have been better running this, probably david davies but was his resignation down to the government or his own failures? he is the least odious of the tory brexiteers imo....the rest well.....Gove is way too nasty, rhys mogg is not prime minister material imo, leadsom has the charisma of a wet wipe, leaving the likes of hunt and boris? Hunt is damaged goods and boris sitting waiting to pounce? say what you like about cameron , even as a remainer but he should have stayed to fight...whether you hate him or not he had infinitely more leadership qualities than mrs may and had far more chance of building a consensus.


Edited by roy munster - 13 March 2019 at 1:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

so the EU have cynically used the northern ireland peace process to destroy brexit and all the Mp's can do is blame may and say nothing of the disgraceful cynicism of the EU? Easier to attack one person than 28 countries...Bunch of cowards.

The EU are never going to make it easy for the UK to leave. One, they don't want us to leave, and two, there are other EU countries on the fringe of wanting to leave the EU too. If the EU made it easy for us and agreed to everything that we wanted, then they'd run the risk of other EU countries wanting to jump on the leave bus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2019 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

so the EU have cynically used the northern ireland peace process to destroy brexit and all the Mp's can do is blame may and say nothing of the disgraceful cynicism of the EU? Easier to attack one person than 28 countries...Bunch of cowards.

The EU are never going to make it easy for the UK to leave. One, they don't want us to leave, and two, there are other EU countries on the fringe of wanting to leave the EU too. If the EU made it easy for us and agreed to everything that we wanted, then they'd run the risk of other EU countries wanting to jump on the leave bus.

Exactly why the united kingdom should have UNITED in the past 3 years to get the best negotiation and the best deal. But why would 650 mps really vote to quadruple their own workload eh? The extension is said to cost us £1 billion a month and the EU still have us over a barrell...weve already offered £39 billion without a whimper....When one mp questioned with-holding the £39 billion as collateral until a deal is done..Leanne wood came out with the pitiful line "typical bloke doesnt want to pay the divorce bill.." A cheap laugh over something so serious ... Honestly I have no idea what anyone in that madhouse parliament is trying to achieve anymore other stall and waste time and billions of cash



Edited by roy munster - 13 March 2019 at 9:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 12:08pm
We look like a bunch of fools and the EU looks united and strong, possibly feeling a little sorry for us now.  

As things stand, we will still leave the EU at the end of March.  Ball is in our court, we now have to ask the EU for an extension to Brexit.  But then what?


Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 14 March 2019 at 12:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 12:48pm
Mays plan looks dead in the water because of the backstop....Its high time corbyn and co laid out their plans to/.....its all well and good tearing down mays plan, which was destroyed by the never ending back stop....but how would they deal with that problem? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Mays plan looks dead in the water because of the backstop....Its high time corbyn and co laid out their plans to/.....its all well and good tearing down mays plan, which was destroyed by the never ending back stop....but how would they deal with that problem? 

Truth is Roy, I very much suspect that no one ever gave this thorny matter any thoughts before the referendum. This is a very difficult issue to deal with. 

Stormont hasn't sat for nearly two years. Sadly, NI politics is a deeply divisive topic, and both sides seem unable to agree on a way forward to their own internal problems. I was over in Belfast for the weekend of the Champions Cup match. The City tour was a huge eye opener.

How we deal with the border is also very clearly a divisive issue.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 1:43pm
When you watch Parliament on TV now with all the extra coverage it just tells me how inefficient the whole process is and how things get dragged out. It seems to need a whole overall on how it operates as an instrument of government. 

Edited by reesytheexile - 14 March 2019 at 1:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

We look like a bunch of fools and the EU looks united and strong, possibly feeling a little sorry for us now.  

As things stand, we will still leave the EU at the end of March.  Ball is in our court, we now have to ask the EU for an extension to Brexit.  But then what?

Hope that within that extension period a majority Government with control over their own party is formed.

Although it is tiresome, a 2 year extension and probably another leadership contest and even a GE could even be what is actually best for the country to break the impasse. Cross-party concessions or the ERG group compromising are the other options along with a no-deal or even abandoning Brexit. Labour want a GE so actually have little incentive for cross-party collaboration, so this is why TM is trying to take a "my deal or risk no Brexit" with the ERG, which makes political sense but she comes across as too stubborn and not in control over enough of her "loyal" MPs, including in Government. She may well end up coming out on top due to the risk of GE or no Brexit and it is a completely fair point that any deal may of course be changed in time - whatever Brexit this turns out to be (or no Brexit) is not necessarily forever. Something the ERG are completely aware of as well but know that now is their best chance of political influence. The funny thing about this to me is arch-Brexiteer Farage himself favours an even softer Norway plus type Brexit.

However, the general mood is people just want it done and are tired of it. I think the media placing every single Brexit story front page has not really helped this. It's been gold dust for them but many people seem unprepared for the difficulties an uncompromising minority Government with a rebel group within it would have to enforce their decision. 

Brexit is one of those things where it really should be above party policies and if you think about it, centre-ist politics should actually be better able to deal with as it requires compromise across traditional party boundaries. But with two massive main parties historically fighting back and forth for power, we're not really equipped politically to do this at all and so it's basically been a Tory in-fight with hardball tactics being employed by several groups to achieve their aims. I heard a funny comment from a political journalist about how our politicians' view of compromise is basically saying "OK, you compromise with me", which is how this comes across.


Edited by dr_martinov - 14 March 2019 at 5:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2019 at 6:19pm
it surely has to be extended at this stage, assuming mays deal goes down yet again next week and the eu will bleed us of billion for doing so. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2019 at 7:27am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

When you watch Parliament on TV now with all the extra coverage it just tells me how inefficient the whole process is and how things get dragged out. It seems to need a whole overall on how it operates as an instrument of government. 
I think this is part of the problem they all want their little cameo on the tv.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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