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The Brexit bonus...

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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:07am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

You fail to explain why this lady decided to return to Germany. Surely you are not suggesting that it was a direct result of the Brexit vote? Currencies fluctuate for a variety of reasons - I can recall the Euro being 1.05 long before the Brexit vote along with the dollar being almost equal to the £ again long before the Brexit vote. I have to have a wry smile when I hear ardent remainers quote Farage & Boris. What about the total bull...t which came out of the remain champions like Osborne.

A lot of nonsense has been talked about by both sides so let us try and get off our soap boxes and deal with the reality - a democratic vote took place; the Government are doing the correct thing and negotiating a leave deal. When that deal is done we can all have our opinions on the success of that deal but please do not insult my intelligence and tell me that I voted leave because of exaggerations peddled by politicians. My reasons were more firmly rooted in basic common sense :-

1. Control of our own borders - not racist by the way just common sense;
2. Control of our judiciary;
3. Removal of being run by an unelected, unaudited, twin centred - Brussels/Strasbourg bunch of overpaid bureaucrats hell bent on a centralised Europe intent on removing National identities with one currency meant to work for 27 countries ranging from Germany to Greece. It doesn't work and will never work just ask the public sector workers in Greece.

There are very few worse things in life than a sore loser - so you remainers please get over it - the sun will still come up after Brexit and this nation of ours is still capable of overcoming the few bumps along the way to a better, less restricted future - and yes that does mean that there won't be food shortages or shortages of insulin - more bullsh.t peddled by remainers!!!!

Just to comment on this but it certainly is believable, be it either insecurity over the future and what it may hold, a dislike on the UK political trends that Brexit indicates, or yes, an excuse perhaps. I suspect similar things would apply to industry also. Brexit will make Britain a less favourable place to come to and stay in for EU residents for sure. This is part of the aim of the leave campaign, as I see it. Actually, now I think about it, that must be who "leave" refers to. Wink

Lets be honest though, a large part of Brexit is a protest vote because people are unhappy and want a change. It's not specifically aimed at our membership of the EU but more aspects of our own government and politicians. No one has really thought it through, let alone the people leading the leave campaign who I repeat had very little actual political power to implement the pipe dreams they sold. It's even to the point that people seem surprised it's such a complicated procedure and negotiations with the EU are needed, or that the Government would oversee it.

This thread is starting to get a bit personal as well - this is the biggest challenge in the next decade IMO be it second referendum or not - is trying to heal the rift. Calling people "sore losers" really doesn't help this BTW. Brexit feels like the most divisive thing I've experienced yet, more than the Iraq war, to the point of being a no-go conversation in friendship groups and families.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:24am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

You fail to explain why this lady decided to return to Germany. Surely you are not suggesting that it was a direct result of the Brexit vote? Currencies fluctuate for a variety of reasons - I can recall the Euro being 1.05 long before the Brexit vote along with the dollar being almost equal to the £ again long before the Brexit vote. I have to have a wry smile when I hear ardent remainers quote Farage & Boris. What about the total bull...t which came out of the remain champions like Osborne.

A lot of nonsense has been talked about by both sides so let us try and get off our soap boxes and deal with the reality - a democratic vote took place; the Government are doing the correct thing and negotiating a leave deal. When that deal is done we can all have our opinions on the success of that deal but please do not insult my intelligence and tell me that I voted leave because of exaggerations peddled by politicians. My reasons were more firmly rooted in basic common sense :-

1. Control of our own borders - not racist by the way just common sense;
2. Control of our judiciary;
3. Removal of being run by an unelected, unaudited, twin centred - Brussels/Strasbourg bunch of overpaid bureaucrats hell bent on a centralised Europe intent on removing National identities with one currency meant to work for 27 countries ranging from Germany to Greece. It doesn't work and will never work just ask the public sector workers in Greece.

There are very few worse things in life than a sore loser - so you remainers please get over it - the sun will still come up after Brexit and this nation of ours is still capable of overcoming the few bumps along the way to a better, less restricted future - and yes that does mean that there won't be food shortages or shortages of insulin - more bullsh.t peddled by remainers!!!!

Just to comment on this but it certainly is believable, be it either insecurity over the future and what it may hold, a dislike on the UK political trends that Brexit indicates, or yes, an excuse perhaps. I suspect similar things would apply to industry also. Brexit will make Britain a less favourable place to come to and stay in for EU residents for sure. This is part of the aim of the leave campaign, as I see it. Actually, now I think about it, that must be who "leave" refers to. Wink

Lets be honest though, a large part of Brexit is a protest vote because people are unhappy and want a change. It's not specifically aimed at our membership of the EU but more aspects of our own government and politicians. No one has really thought it through, let alone the people leading the leave campaign who I repeat had very little actual political power to implement the pipe dreams they sold. It's even to the point that people seem surprised it's such a complicated procedure and negotiations with the EU are needed, or that the Government would oversee it.

This thread is starting to get a bit personal as well - this is the biggest challenge in the next decade IMO be it second referendum or not - is trying to heal the rift. Calling people "sore losers" really doesn't help this BTW. Brexit feels like the most divisive thing I've experienced yet, more than the Iraq war, to the point of being a no-go conversation in friendship groups and families.

How would you describe the people who lost - I will accept your version. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:25am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

That’s mostly paranoid nonsense I’m afraid.

Anyway, no good will come of this debate. Hopefully there will be a second referendum so whatever type of Brexit we end up with (there are loads, and often contrary versions) can be given the final democratic legitimacy it requires (in my opinion), or rejected.

Well I note you are part of the moderator group - so I am paranoid & talking nonsense - very mature indeed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2018 at 10:51am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

You fail to explain why this lady decided to return to Germany. Surely you are not suggesting that it was a direct result of the Brexit vote? Currencies fluctuate for a variety of reasons - I can recall the Euro being 1.05 long before the Brexit vote along with the dollar being almost equal to the £ again long before the Brexit vote. I have to have a wry smile when I hear ardent remainers quote Farage & Boris. What about the total bull...t which came out of the remain champions like Osborne.

A lot of nonsense has been talked about by both sides so let us try and get off our soap boxes and deal with the reality - a democratic vote took place; the Government are doing the correct thing and negotiating a leave deal. When that deal is done we can all have our opinions on the success of that deal but please do not insult my intelligence and tell me that I voted leave because of exaggerations peddled by politicians. My reasons were more firmly rooted in basic common sense :-

1. Control of our own borders - not racist by the way just common sense;
2. Control of our judiciary;
3. Removal of being run by an unelected, unaudited, twin centred - Brussels/Strasbourg bunch of overpaid bureaucrats hell bent on a centralised Europe intent on removing National identities with one currency meant to work for 27 countries ranging from Germany to Greece. It doesn't work and will never work just ask the public sector workers in Greece.

There are very few worse things in life than a sore loser - so you remainers please get over it - the sun will still come up after Brexit and this nation of ours is still capable of overcoming the few bumps along the way to a better, less restricted future - and yes that does mean that there won't be food shortages or shortages of insulin - more bullsh.t peddled by remainers!!!!

Just to comment on this but it certainly is believable, be it either insecurity over the future and what it may hold, a dislike on the UK political trends that Brexit indicates, or yes, an excuse perhaps. I suspect similar things would apply to industry also. Brexit will make Britain a less favourable place to come to and stay in for EU residents for sure. This is part of the aim of the leave campaign, as I see it. Actually, now I think about it, that must be who "leave" refers to. Wink

Lets be honest though, a large part of Brexit is a protest vote because people are unhappy and want a change. It's not specifically aimed at our membership of the EU but more aspects of our own government and politicians. No one has really thought it through, let alone the people leading the leave campaign who I repeat had very little actual political power to implement the pipe dreams they sold. It's even to the point that people seem surprised it's such a complicated procedure and negotiations with the EU are needed, or that the Government would oversee it.

This thread is starting to get a bit personal as well - this is the biggest challenge in the next decade IMO be it second referendum or not - is trying to heal the rift. Calling people "sore losers" really doesn't help this BTW. Brexit feels like the most divisive thing I've experienced yet, more than the Iraq war, to the point of being a no-go conversation in friendship groups and families.

How would you describe the people who lost - I will accept your version. 

OK, that was me being over-sensitive. There's worse things than being called a sore loser, I was just saying this thread is starting to get personal, as often happens with Brexit, which will prevent discussion. But I don't really think there's much back and forth at the moment on this topic anyway - I'd accept both sides lack of willingness to engage but it's something many people feel quite strongly about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2018 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

You fail to explain why this lady decided to return to Germany. Surely you are not suggesting that it was a direct result of the Brexit vote? Currencies fluctuate for a variety of reasons - I can recall the Euro being 1.05 long before the Brexit vote along with the dollar being almost equal to the £ again long before the Brexit vote. I have to have a wry smile when I hear ardent remainers quote Farage & Boris. What about the total bull...t which came out of the remain champions like Osborne.

A lot of nonsense has been talked about by both sides so let us try and get off our soap boxes and deal with the reality - a democratic vote took place; the Government are doing the correct thing and negotiating a leave deal. When that deal is done we can all have our opinions on the success of that deal but please do not insult my intelligence and tell me that I voted leave because of exaggerations peddled by politicians. My reasons were more firmly rooted in basic common sense :-

1. Control of our own borders - not racist by the way just common sense;
2. Control of our judiciary;
3. Removal of being run by an unelected, unaudited, twin centred - Brussels/Strasbourg bunch of overpaid bureaucrats hell bent on a centralised Europe intent on removing National identities with one currency meant to work for 27 countries ranging from Germany to Greece. It doesn't work and will never work just ask the public sector workers in Greece.

There are very few worse things in life than a sore loser - so you remainers please get over it - the sun will still come up after Brexit and this nation of ours is still capable of overcoming the few bumps along the way to a better, less restricted future - and yes that does mean that there won't be food shortages or shortages of insulin - more bullsh.t peddled by remainers!!!!

Just to comment on this but it certainly is believable, be it either insecurity over the future and what it may hold, a dislike on the UK political trends that Brexit indicates, or yes, an excuse perhaps. I suspect similar things would apply to industry also. Brexit will make Britain a less favourable place to come to and stay in for EU residents for sure. This is part of the aim of the leave campaign, as I see it. Actually, now I think about it, that must be who "leave" refers to. Wink

Lets be honest though, a large part of Brexit is a protest vote because people are unhappy and want a change. It's not specifically aimed at our membership of the EU but more aspects of our own government and politicians. No one has really thought it through, let alone the people leading the leave campaign who I repeat had very little actual political power to implement the pipe dreams they sold. It's even to the point that people seem surprised it's such a complicated procedure and negotiations with the EU are needed, or that the Government would oversee it.

This thread is starting to get a bit personal as well - this is the biggest challenge in the next decade IMO be it second referendum or not - is trying to heal the rift. Calling people "sore losers" really doesn't help this BTW. Brexit feels like the most divisive thing I've experienced yet, more than the Iraq war, to the point of being a no-go conversation in friendship groups and families.

How would you describe the people who lost - I will accept your version. 

OK, that was me being over-sensitive. There's worse things than being called a sore loser, I was just saying this thread is starting to get personal, as often happens with Brexit, which will prevent discussion. But I don't really think there's much back and forth at the moment on this topic anyway - I'd accept both sides lack of willingness to engage but it's something many people feel quite strongly about it.

You are correct Dr M. I try not to get involved in personal insults but when you have someone on this forum who is part of the moderator group referring to another poster as being paranoid or talking nonsense then what hope have we got. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 9:45am
I think one of the worst things about Brexit is the damage to trust in politicians. I admit to being a cynical thinker type character but I am one who considers arguments from sides who's views I don't think I share, plus I certainly respect facts. However, my trust in politicians is approaching zero, and they have no ability to present facts honestly. Result is I believe nothing they say. In fact, so few come from any sort of background like science or engineering, where dealing with facts, interpretation of results and problem solving are every day activities, as is considering the long-term impact and goals of what you do. Instead they've all studied PPE degrees here in Oxford where it's all about connections. You have to gain power to be able to apply your policies and there is a lot of charisma, charm, and internal political manoeuvring required for that, sure, but politics is too short-term and populist at present and politicians are intrinsically power-motivated. Quite frankly, there are some enormously significant challenges which none of them are addressing and instead we are stuck arguing about Brexit for what seems like a lifetime. I doubt I am alone in my generation for feeling this way, either. The frustration from the inability to actually change anything is there as well. At least Corbyn et al represent this, as did Brexit I suspect. 

For me, that this is now abundantly obvious to as many people as possible is the Brexit bonus. Perhaps we can start voting in some honest, intelligent politicians who want to do the best for the people of this country (not the [beep]ing economy) and are not just full of waffle, themselves and their business interests.


Edited by dr_martinov - 12 November 2018 at 9:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 9:56am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think one of the worst things about Brexit is the damage to trust in politicians. I admit to being a cynical thinker type character but I am one who considers arguments from sides who's views I don't think I share, plus I certainly respect facts. However, my trust in politicians is approaching zero, and they have no ability to present facts honestly. Result is I believe nothing they say. In fact, so few come from any sort of useful background like science or engineering, where dealing with facts, interpretation of results and problem solving are every day activities, as is considering the long-term impact and goals of what you do. Instead they've all studied PPE degrees here in Oxford where it's all about connections. You have to gain power to be able to apply your policies and there is a lot of charisma, charm, and internal political manoeuvring required for that, sure, but politics is too short-term and populist at present and politicians are intrinsically power-motivated. Quite frankly, there are some enormously significant challenges which none of them are addressing and instead we are stuck arguing about Brexit for what seems like a lifetime. I doubt I am alone in my generation for feeling this way, either. The frustration from the inability to actually change anything is there as well. At least Corbyn et al represent this, as did Brexit I suspect. 

Fair points well made. I too feel that politicians in general have a very poor image - most of which they totally deserve. The longer this Brexit debate continues the more it appears that the so called Chequers Plan has very little chance of working or indeed getting accepted by parliament. If this is the case our government have wasted 3 months on something which never stood a chance from day one. At least David Davis and Boris Johnson had the gumption to voice their disagreement at the outset.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 10:21am
UK boss of ThyssenKrupp with some very concerning words about Brexit here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/brexit-plan-complete-shambles-uk-boss-of-thyssenkrupp-says
How many people does the company directly employ in Llanelli?


Edited by Mike - 12 November 2018 at 10:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

UK boss of ThyssenKrupp with some very concerning words about Brexit here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/brexit-plan-complete-shambles-uk-boss-of-thyssenkrupp-says
How many people does the company directly employ in Llanelli?

Llanelli is quoted as 56.7% leave (https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/every-leave-constituency-with-a-remain-mp/) although wikipedia says 55.4%. I can't find the exact numbers but Carmarthenshire was 55,381 Leave. 47,654 remain (74.1% turnout). 

So this is what the majority wanted, I'm afraid. It was completely predictable European-based companies would reconsider their position after a Leave vote so I can only think people were comfortable with that and it would be offset by other factors, possibly longer-term. But I can't speak for them and Leave POVs are on this and other threads.


Edited by dr_martinov - 12 November 2018 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 5:23pm
It shocks me that so many on this forum have so little faith in what politicians tell us.  Doesn't this sort of thing inspire trust? -

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2018 at 6:17pm
can Brexit be like swear words where you can't post it on the forum?
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 9:10am
All kicking off this morning. I wish I was earning royalties on "another one bites the dust".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 10:27am
How much power do politicians really have ? westminster is over ridden on 80% of its laws by europe and the various regional / national assemblies/governments make more decisions than ever...Then you have the councils. The relationship between politicians and councils has always bemused me. What exactly is their relationship?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 10:29am
I notice andrew neil today stating the BBC is far too left wing and all its comedy output is purely left wing. I wouldnt agree about the whole agenda being left wing. Some of it purports to be left but is often pro corporation pro monarchy etc But I would agree on the political comedians being left leaning. Have I got news for you he attacks and again Id agree with him. Its become awfully predictable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 10:37am
Most of the right wing comedians are in the House of Commons Roy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2018 at 11:00am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Most of the right wing comedians are in the House of Commons Roy.
Lol LOL good point and theyre rubbish too
Looks like theres a few desertions today again
This brexit bill will be like shovelling poo uphill for teresa may
I dont think it will pass and I think her goose is cooked
Westminster is a laughing stock
The EU has simply sat back and laughed at the lot of them squabbling amongst themselves for 2 and a half years....whilst giving absolutely no concessions whatsoever. The EU hasnt really been involved.
It reminds me of the worst period in welsh rugby when ron waldrons neath/welsh team lost 63-6 to the wallabies and spent the after match dinner fighting amongst themselves. Thats all parliament has achieved in 2 and a half years. I think everyone in there shares some blame. The tories for their endless selfish petty infighting and labour for simply using this as a chance to regain power. 
Why cant they simply work together int he common cause?

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