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The Brexit bonus...

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2019 at 12:30pm
pound is down again ....can anyone really see this being done and dusted in october? what odds an extension yet again to article 50 then a general election
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2019 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

pound is down again ....can anyone really see this being done and dusted in october? what odds an extension yet again to article 50 then a general election

This really will put us on the back foot when negotiating trade deals. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:09am
One of the things which caused me concern about the preparations for Brexit by 29/03/2019 was the very mixed messages being given by the Government on the state of our preparedness for a no deal exit.

In an interview yesterday the top man at Next, Lord Wolfsden, shed some light on it. He was exceptionally critical of the May cabinet as they had effectively not really bothered to prepare as they were not collectively in favour of leaving. Apparently the new cabinet have been a breath of fresh air and his many concerns about leaving with no deal have been greatly alleviated. 

As I have said all along our Government have the finance/tools to support our businesses through any turbulence as long as they have the will. This along with the news that any trade deal with the USA post Brexit will be done sector by sector ( an eminently sensible solution) has at least given the debate something positive to digest. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:14am
So as I recall there was a referendum to leave or remain. I recall no discussion about deals.  Leave is out. No deal. Industry has had 3 years to work our trade partners instead of burying their heads in the sand and thinking of themselves.  Let’s get out. No deal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

So as I recall there was a referendum to leave or remain. I recall no discussion about deals.  Leave is out. No deal. Industry has had 3 years to work our trade partners instead of burying their heads in the sand and thinking of themselves.  Let’s get out. No deal

A deal would still be "leave", so is also what you voted for. Did you read TM's deal - the actual document - out of interest? What part(s) did you object to as a leave voter?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2019 at 9:36am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

So as I recall there was a referendum to leave or remain. I recall no discussion about deals.  Leave is out. No deal. Industry has had 3 years to work our trade partners instead of burying their heads in the sand and thinking of themselves.  Let’s get out. No deal

A deal would still be "leave", so is also what you voted for. Did you read TM's deal - the actual document - out of interest? What part(s) did you object to as a leave voter?





A very sensible question Dr. M. I am pretty sure that of the 500+ pages of the document probably Boris' cabinet would agree with more than 75%. We are clearly not talking about tearing up the agreement but re-negotiating the 25%. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2019 at 1:43pm
A sense of the calm before the storm at the moment. One things which surprises me - amongst all the talk of the impending decisions being a momentous occasion in our history MP's still feel it is ok to all take a couple of months off, with full pay of course. Classic - if it was TV show it would be derided as too far fetched to be believed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2019 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

So as I recall there was a referendum to leave or remain. I recall no discussion about deals.  Leave is out. No deal. Industry has had 3 years to work our trade partners instead of burying their heads in the sand and thinking of themselves.  Let’s get out. No deal

A deal would still be "leave", so is also what you voted for. Did you read TM's deal - the actual document - out of interest? What part(s) did you object to as a leave voter?





A very sensible question Dr. M. I am pretty sure that of the 500+ pages of the document probably Boris' cabinet would agree with more than 75%. We are clearly not talking about tearing up the agreement but re-negotiating the 25%. 
Problem is, you can't just re-negoatiate the 25% you don't like because the various strands are interlinked and to gain in one area would mean giving way in another.  If you go back to the table to re-negotiate, then all previous bets are off and you start again. Not that the EU are prepared to do this in anycase, but even of they did, there just isn't the time anymore.

Boris' insistence on taking the backstop away before negotiations can re-start has meant that negotiations will never re-start. He's dug himself a hole there thats impossible to get out of.

To respond to Winston's statement about industry needing to get on with it; it's not industry that's holding things up, it's the Government who has the responsibility to make the trade agreements and this is proving to be difficult, and guess why - The UK doesn't have the same clout as the EU when it comes to making deals.  We are finding it difficult to get better deals than we already had - as a result of Brexit we are effectively the only country in the history of the world that has imposed sanctions on itself. You couldn't make it up. 


Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 17 August 2019 at 1:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2019 at 4:36pm
The Uk is far more able and flexible to make deals than the masisve EU / 28 nations combined who have taken decades to do trade deals

Its about time the country and politicians actually tried to support the government to get the best deal possible. The endless attempts at a coup to take over and bring down the government are not aimed at getting the best deal theyre simply a power grab. These other leaders dont even state what they would do with the backstop and aim all their criticisms at the government and none at the EU. Theyre playing party politics when they should be doing whats best for britain


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2019 at 7:06pm
It's not about flexibility roy, its about 'might is right' and the EU are in a far stronger position to make deals with the rest of the world than we are.  This is the truth thats emerging but should have been self evident from the start.

And the reason that politicians aren't supporting the Government is because they don't want their names or parties to be associated with the car crash thats about to happen. 
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2019 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

It's not about flexibility roy, its about 'might is right' and the EU are in a far stronger position to make deals with the rest of the world than we are.  This is the truth thats emerging but should have been self evident from the start.

And the reason that politicians aren't supporting the Government is because they don't want their names or parties to be associated with the car crash thats about to happen. 

Might isnt always right...Size is not everything especially in business as we have seen with the collapse of endless inflexible commercial companies and massive nations/empires like the USSR ...How come japan has always been stronger than china? how did tiny UK become a world power? Yes I am aware of the barbaric cruelty of those regimes but size is not everything, autonomy flexibility independence to a degree are also crucial in every area. But where the Uk has blown it is by allowing the likes of farage to steal the narrative and break our ties of friendship and multi faceted shared interests...The remainers have buried their heads in the sand and the brexiteers have burnt too many bridges...a middle ground compromise is desperately needed but its late and were in the autumn of negotiations...Keep your friends close keep your enemies closerWink


Edited by roy munster - 17 August 2019 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 August 2019 at 7:19pm
the usa was formed differently from the grass roots up with a tiny constitution / declaration of independence that has barely changed....the eu has a 400 odd page constitution of a zillion laws trying to amalgamate 30 nations with 1000s of years of different history, culture,minerals and resurces, wealth etc as we have seen this has been a catastrphc inflexible totalitarian nightmare for the poorer nations like greece iceland italy and many more..italy had its government effectively replaced by the eu.with youth unemplyment up to 40/50% in some nations


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 8:06am
Politicians of every persuasion have let us down badly over the past years. From May's remainer cabinet to Corbyn's which policy will we back today shadow cabinet. What commentators seem to miss is that both the Tory & Labour parties stood for election in 2017on a manifesto of leaving the EU. It was clearly evident at that time that no deal was an apparent option - " no deal is better than a bad deal". How many times was that quoted from a PM who really didn't believe what she was saying. 

Therefore it comes as no surprise that we are in the position we are in now. Wet kippers like ex chancellor Hammond are what has put the UK in this position and his constituents should make him pay. Of course a new deal could be done but while we have remainers plotting against the government of the day any urgency from the EU will never materialise probably until it is too late. Boris remains the tories biggest hope of winning the next election so common sense would seem to point to a vote of no confidence failing but common sense left the building a long time ago. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 10:16am
Business and the electorate wanted direction we now have it yet still they are not happy mainly because it’s not the direction they wanted the EU will definitely not like it because the will realise the onus is on them to now be flexible. But yet again our ability to shown unity and strengthen is undermined but the political elite (use that term loosely) looking to undermine that unity. All this talk of a new deal is farcical as the EU have stated unequivocally there is no more negotiating. The gaggle of anti no deal at Westminster can’t even put forward s joint plan or a deal they can agree to which will again throw business into turmoil and as for the IRA supporting Corbyn being leader of this country it would be the day this country I have defended and served has finally gone to the dogs. Saying that the anti leavers can’t even agree on who would lead the dissolved government it’s embarrassing where the only person showing direction is Borris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2019 at 10:37am
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

Business and the electorate wanted direction we now have it yet still they are not happy mainly because it’s not the direction they wanted the EU will definitely not like it because the will realise the onus is on them to now be flexible. But yet again our ability to shown unity and strengthen is undermined but the political elite (use that term loosely) looking to undermine that unity. All this talk of a new deal is farcical as the EU have stated unequivocally there is no more negotiating. The gaggle of anti no deal at Westminster can’t even put forward s joint plan or a deal they can agree to which will again throw business into turmoil and as for the IRA supporting Corbyn being leader of this country it would be the day this country I have defended and served has finally gone to the dogs. Saying that the anti leavers can’t even agree on who would lead the dissolved government it’s embarrassing where the only person showing direction is Borris

I agree with you. Well said. I honestly believe that the public will turn on the anti leavers in a big way if they succeed in stopping Boris' plans. May's cabinet have a lot to answer for not just in the deal making stakes but for not making sure that all that could be done was done in preparation for leaving with no deal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2019 at 11:39am
watching corbyn speaking now live on bbc

He wants a no deal brexit so wants to overthrow the government and take over the country.
He thinks spending on a no deal is a waste of money? But surely we need to prepare for that scenario?
He claims brexit happened because the poorer areas didnt get investments over the decades and he will invest in those areas.

Hes also said the NHS will be sold off to the american corporations in a no deal brexit. Surely parliament will fight such a scenario. Id like to think so.

he wants £10 minimum wage for 18 year olds (He did ask for £13 a few months ago) Will this cost jobs? Has he accounted for on the job training for 18 year olds? also the fact 99% of 18 year olds live at home with no bills?

He wants to nationalise water rail and mail...But the EU outlaws this? If brexit happens perhaps this can happen?
Hes just offered free tuition fees again but didnt he have to back track on that promise last election?
Hes on about wiping out the alleged pay gap between the genders and minorities (No mention of the disabled who are way behind in the pay gap?) clearly there will be policies to enforce any alleged wage disparity. Trouble is that alleged gap is market driven so he will need to control the market to a massive level to actually change that
He bashed landlords as always, those pesky money grabbers exploiting all those innocent tenants 
Has it ever occured that the landlords have a bigger motivation to maintain their properties as its their property? The fact housing benefits goes direct to tenants has lead to millions of non payments, stolen rents and homes wrecked too. But thats always ignored by politicians who deal with theories not facts

The gap between rich and poor he wants to reduce, labour promised that in 1997 but by 2010 the gap was bigger than it had been for 200 years.
Hes promising to tax the rich more to pay for public services, cant argue with that. No doubt tories will argue that will drive away rich investors.
Like so many things it sounds ok in theory to idealistic students but will any of this work long term in reality?


Edited by roy munster - 19 August 2019 at 11:48am
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