Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


The scrum half issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 11107
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 11:56am
Our 'scrum half issue' is an issue that comes with success, i.e. this season we have three if not four very good scrum halves. Apologies for not remembering the name of the youngster that came on  a few times (no not MIke Phillips) but he was also a class act and looking forward to seeing more of him in the future. 

If our scrum half stock was the same as other clubs then there would be no 'issue' as Cawdor would stand out head and shoulders above the rest, as will Aled next season at the Ospreys.  The only real issue is keeping them all happy by  giving them enough game time between them all  to satisfy their personal ambitions, and that's probably impossible.


Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 08 May 2018 at 11:57am
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by thommo thommo wrote:

Hidalgo clyne can cover 10 and has a sound kicking game. Has good pace over the first 10 and offers a different option to dan as a back up 10. Could overtake dan at 10 next season if we are picking horses for courses.

SHC has indeed featured at 10 but I don't know how many times/how effective he has been. Much will depend on where he sees himself playing - not many are happy to be considered as utility players apart from Asquith who is well pleased with getting into our top 23. However if he is happy to play 10 all the better. Wherever he features he will improve our kicking game which is nowhere near Champion standard. 

I'm sure I read somewhere that SHC played all his early (schools?) rugby at 10, and only moved to 9 as a senior - so he'll have plenty of experience, even if at a much lower level... it won't be completely strange, anyway, if he has to play there. Well have to see how good a fist he makes of it, when the time comes.

I'm not convinced by your point about utility players - as for 9/10, very many French players can operate in both positions, as can Laidlaw of Scotland - so no reason SHC can't... and as for the Scarlets, we seem to have a plethora of 'utility' players ATM, which adds immensely to the flexibility of the squad, and provides valuable cover in cases of injuries:

Halfpenny, Prydie, Mcnicholl, Steff Evans: 15 or wing
Scott and Hadleigh: 12 or 13 (H can also do an impersonation of a 10!)
Asquith: 10, centre, wing
SHC: 9 or 10
Patch and Dan J: 10 or 15

Beirne, Shingler, Rawlins: second row or 6
Barclay, Boyde, Macleod: anywhere in back row
Cubby: 7 or wing Wink

So - it seems to me that the coaches have deliberately targeted players who can cover more than one position, which makes sense given that we're not amongst the richest club around.


I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
PE SA View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 22 July 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 10750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Our 'scrum half issue' is an issue that comes with success, i.e. this season we have three if not four very good scrum halves. Apologies for not remembering the name of the youngster that came on  a few times (no not MIke Phillips) but he was also a class act and looking forward to seeing more of him in the future. 

If our scrum half stock was the same as other clubs then there would be no 'issue' as Cawdor would stand out head and shoulders above the rest, as will Aled next season at the Ospreys.  The only real issue is keeping them all happy by  giving them enough game time between them all  to satisfy their personal ambitions, and that's probably impossible.

Lets not forget Cawdor is now an NDC player and with the World Cup coming up these lads I am sure will be wrapped in as much cotton wool as possible in readiness for the World Cup.

so IMO, we will see Cawdor playing the 16 games and thats it - 6 group stage games of europe, possibly the derby fixtures, and any QFs/SFs/play offs.

The rest will be split between Jonny and SHC and if SHC is called upon by Scotland, then Hardy and Smith are battling out for that spot too.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by thommo thommo wrote:

Hidalgo clyne can cover 10 and has a sound kicking game. Has good pace over the first 10 and offers a different option to dan as a back up 10. Could overtake dan at 10 next season if we are picking horses for courses.

SHC has indeed featured at 10 but I don't know how many times/how effective he has been. Much will depend on where he sees himself playing - not many are happy to be considered as utility players apart from Asquith who is well pleased with getting into our top 23. However if he is happy to play 10 all the better. Wherever he features he will improve our kicking game which is nowhere near Champion standard. 

I'm sure I read somewhere that SHC played all his early (schools?) rugby at 10, and only moved to 9 as a senior - so he'll have plenty of experience, even if at a much lower level... it won't be completely strange, anyway, if he has to play there. Well have to see how good a fist he makes of it, when the time comes.

I'm not convinced by your point about utility players - as for 9/10, very many French players can operate in both positions, as can Laidlaw of Scotland - so no reason SHC can't... and as for the Scarlets, we seem to have a plethora of 'utility' players ATM, which adds immensely to the flexibility of the squad, and provides valuable cover in cases of injuries:

Halfpenny, Prydie, Mcnicholl, Steff Evans: 15 or wing
Scott and Hadleigh: 12 or 13 (H can also do an impersonation of a 10!)
Asquith: 10, centre, wing
SHC: 9 or 10
Patch and Dan J: 10 or 15

Beirne, Shingler, Rawlins: second row or 6
Barclay, Boyde, Macleod: anywhere in back row
Cubby: 7 or wing Wink

So - it seems to me that the coaches have deliberately targeted players who can cover more than one position, which makes sense given that we're not amongst the richest club around.



Versatility is very much a positive but my comment relates to the preference of the player. I very much doubt whether we would have signed either Halfpenny or Patchell if we had promised them as many games at 14 or 15 as their preferred positions of 15 & 10. 

Playing in their non favoured positions for one off knock out games to cover for injury is one thing. SHC will get plenty of games at 9 or 21 with Cawdor's enforced abscences due to the NDC. I am looking forward to seeing him play at 10.
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 4:41pm
Most of the examples I listed are of players who definitely don't mind being seen as versatile.

I suppose Patch is a bit of an exception, because at the Blues he was played at 15 when Anscombe was picked before him at 10. In the Scarlets set-up, there is no question that he is first choice at 10 - it's just that, with injuries, it has been necessary at times to move him to 15. I'm sure he understands that.

To the best of my knowledge, SHC doesn't mind being seen as a 9/10 - certainly, he is listed as being able to play 9, 10 or 15 on Wikipedia... we'll see how he sees himself when he turns up!
I share no-one's ideas. I have my own.
(Ivan Turgenev)
Back to Top
Feverpitch View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 05 December 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Feverpitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

To play our normal full on attacking style there is no SH in Europe that I would prefer to see than Cawdor. His threat around the fringes with both pace & aggression, his wonderful running support lines. The addition of SHC will add another dimension to our half back play so that we can play a tighter more conservative way when conditions dictate. An inspired signing in my opinion. The awarding of a NDC to Cawdor makes it imperative that we have depth and SHC and Hardy give us that. 


Do you not rate Johnny Evs then ?
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 5484
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2018 at 8:05am
Originally posted by Feverpitch Feverpitch wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

To play our normal full on attacking style there is no SH in Europe that I would prefer to see than Cawdor. His threat around the fringes with both pace & aggression, his wonderful running support lines. The addition of SHC will add another dimension to our half back play so that we can play a tighter more conservative way when conditions dictate. An inspired signing in my opinion. The awarding of a NDC to Cawdor makes it imperative that we have depth and SHC and Hardy give us that. 


Do you not rate Johnny Evs then ?

I certainly do rate Jonathan but with Cawdor likely to be sitting out a number of games we will need 3 strong 9's as back up. 
Back to Top
Feverpitch View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 05 December 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Feverpitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Llanelliman Llanelliman wrote:


In support of Gareth, I think that his 'charging' at the opposition in attack was a tactic that Pivac wanted him to deploy from the start. The Cheetah's knew how much of a threat Gareth was going to be and was frequently challenged by more than one of the Cheetah's defenders, sucking in the opposition defence very effectively. Had we scored 3 tries before the half hour mark ??? As soon as Gareth went off the opposition defence relented their suffocating defence of the number 9 challenge/position, maximised to great effect by Jonathan Evans who took full advantage of the freedom this relinquished defence created. Entirely tactical by our very astute Coaching Staff.
And you can be sure that Glasgow were watching this match; if they weren't already focussing on Gareth Davies as a 'bloody nuisance in attack', they most certainly will be after that match. Creating openings elsewhere. Bring on the Semi Final. As someone else as stated, cranking up and getting momentum at just the right time  . . .
 


Ha ha ha. Are you really saying that Wayne and Stevo came up with a great tactical plan of Cawdor being as greedy as possible. I can imagine the team talk
" Gareth, when you've got the ball don't worry about a team game. Go for it yourself, be greedy and don't worry if you blow several guilt edged scoring chances for anyone outside you. It won't matter because when you are replaced Johnny Evs will benefit from the extra space and we will run in tries later in the game "
To be honest, apart from his kicking, I have thought that Cawdors weakness has been that he slows down attacks by getting to a breakdown and waiting before deciding who to pass to. But at the start of this season he had improved in that department releasing the ball a lot quicker to supporting players to keep up the tempo and attacks flowing. However since returning from National camp he seems to have been Howleyfied and resorted to slowing things down. He has looked tired and struggling after 50 to 60 minutes and this culminated in the Cheetahs game where he has tried too hard to make things happen on his own, only to ignore the try scoring opportunities for others.
I hope the 2 week rest will have refreshed him for this week and with the extended period of coaching from Stevo he will be back to his best, and play the team game not his own.
Back to Top
reesytheexile View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 11 August 2012
Location: Machynys
Status: Offline
Points: 11678
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Our 'scrum half issue' is an issue that comes with success, i.e. this season we have three if not four very good scrum halves. Apologies for not remembering the name of the youngster that came on  a few times (no not MIke Phillips) but he was also a class act and looking forward to seeing more of him in the future. 

If our scrum half stock was the same as other clubs then there would be no 'issue' as Cawdor would stand out head and shoulders above the rest, as will Aled next season at the Ospreys.  The only real issue is keeping them all happy by  giving them enough game time between them all  to satisfy their personal ambitions, and that's probably impossible.

Declan Smith in the Scarlets Academy do you mean ? Been off injured but has been back with us in Llanelli RFC for a few games .
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.