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The stunning resurrection of Aaron Shingler

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

Edited by scarletnut - 12 February 2018 at 1:51pm
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam makingĀ  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.



You must see that the way to get the ball in the first place is to have players like Warburton protecting it, securing it, putting his body on the line for it? He's one of the best backrowers in the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.
That's not an opinion that's a fact
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.
That's not an opinion that's a fact

So many people (and I am not saying anyone on this thread) dismiss Warburton as a pretty good flanker, but the truth is he is one of the very best in the world and has been for 6-7 years. Thankfully we have a Welsh coach who knows that to be true. You hear criticism of him being selected again as the Lions Captain, he doesn't play in the 1st Test, but we see the difference when he plays in the 2nd and 3rd.  For me, he, along with AWJ, Faletau and JD are the players that are first on the team sheet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 

Well what is the problem you have with Navidi in my back row?. FFS he's been playing there for the first two games. With regard to having good defensive players stopping people on the gainline - have we been bad at that in the first two games? As I continually state we have to firstly understand what our gameplan is and pick players accordingly. If you want to play a 10 man kick and chase game then Warburton plays every time. If you want players comfortable with the ball in their hands then he does not. I am afraid the term World Class is thrown around far too easily. We have two players who are in that category at the moment - Foxy and Faletau. Warburton, in my humble opinion, is nowhere near. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 

Well what is the problem you have with Navidi in my back row?. FFS he's been playing there for the first two games. With regard to having good defensive players stopping people on the gainline - have we been bad at that in the first two games? As I continually state we have to firstly understand what our gameplan is and pick players accordingly. If you want to play a 10 man kick and chase game then Warburton plays every time. If you want players comfortable with the ball in their hands then he does not. I am afraid the term World Class is thrown around far too easily. We have two players who are in that category at the moment - Foxy and Faletau. Warburton, in my humble opinion, is nowhere near. 
Warburton is in the top 3 opensides in the worlds. Not really much of a debate
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 5:05pm
Interesting debate this. I think we missed warburton at the breakdown saturday we didnt turn them over much if at all. It seems that of all the quality 7s we have none is the complete article. warbs greta at the breakdown, pretty quick, half decent carrier doesnt handle much in open spaces though....tips heck of an athlete quick lovely hands good tackler not quite as physical and a bit less effective at the breakdown....navidi physical decent at breakdown carries probably better than the other 2 in tight spaces dont see him in the open that much.....cubby ummm well he can do everything but hes dismissed as too small and unproven at test level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 

Well what is the problem you have with Navidi in my back row?. FFS he's been playing there for the first two games. With regard to having good defensive players stopping people on the gainline - have we been bad at that in the first two games? As I continually state we have to firstly understand what our gameplan is and pick players accordingly. If you want to play a 10 man kick and chase game then Warburton plays every time. If you want players comfortable with the ball in their hands then he does not. I am afraid the term World Class is thrown around far too easily. We have two players who are in that category at the moment - Foxy and Faletau. Warburton, in my humble opinion, is nowhere near

I think it's fair to say you are in the minority there, but that's not the point.

The point is that everything Navidi does, Warbarton can do it even better.

And that no matter how loose and expansive a game you want to play, you still need to have players who are solid defensively, to avoid being always on the back foot, like both Scarlets and Wales were this weekend. Oh, and that doesn't mean Warburton is only a great defender.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 

Well what is the problem you have with Navidi in my back row?. FFS he's been playing there for the first two games. With regard to having good defensive players stopping people on the gainline - have we been bad at that in the first two games? As I continually state we have to firstly understand what our gameplan is and pick players accordingly. If you want to play a 10 man kick and chase game then Warburton plays every time. If you want players comfortable with the ball in their hands then he does not. I am afraid the term World Class is thrown around far too easily. We have two players who are in that category at the moment - Foxy and Faletau. Warburton, in my humble opinion, is nowhere near

I think it's fair to say you are in the minority there, but that's not the point.

The point is that everything Navidi does, Warbarton can do it even better.

And that no matter how loose and expansive a game you want to play, you still need to have players who are solid defensively, to avoid being always on the back foot, like both Scarlets and Wales were this weekend. Oh, and that doesn't mean Warburton is only a great defender.
I think you're spot on there
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote cat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2018 at 8:12pm
Sorry but i'm another who think's Warburton's a world class player, a fantastic player when he's on top of his game, i've watched him come through the ranks of wales age group rugby and he's alway's been a real class act, he stood out even as a yougster, a special kind of player.
I do realize it's all about opinions though and we're all entitled to our own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2018 at 7:35am
6.shingler, 7. Warburton, 8. Faletau. Sub morriatty. Simple
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turkishrebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2018 at 8:33am
got to say Chris that navidi does not deserve to be dropped on his performances. think warburton needs to earn his spot back in the team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2018 at 8:52am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Can't see Warburton getting back in the starting 15 in all honesty. Aaron, Taulupe, & Josh for me with Sam/Ross on the bench. 
Warburton's a different level to Navidi when fully fit

Sam is not a 7 in my mind especially if you want to play an offloading attack orientated game. He is an excellent defensive player who is good over the ball - a no 6 really and not in the same all round league as Aaron.
I love Shingler he's a terrific player but saying that one of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time isn't in his league is stretching it a bit

One of the most successful British & Irish Lions captains of all time is the only comment I find as stretching it a bit. Sam against Aaron is a no brainer for me - when for instance have you seen Sam making  line breaks with the pace that Aaron has; when did you last see Sam make an offload, win opposition line out ball. We are talking different animals. Wales have stipulated that they want to play a fast offloading game so you therefore have to pick players who are comfortable with that gameplan. Warburton is a defensive player, excellent at what he does, but there is no place for that type of player ( another is Lydiate) in a team which wants to play a wide, fast offloading game.

Of course there is a place for a player of Warburton's quality, FFS. And as far as I can see nobody is suggesting Warburton should replace Aaron but rather Navidi.

Aaron has upped his game immensely and on top of his attacking flair he is being used to great effect shooting out of the defensive line because he was never a great defender in that he tended to concede metres on the gainline. But as games like Saturday's demostrated, you need strong players defensively who can tackle an stop players on the gainline as much as you need players with Aaron's skill set.

Not sure what to make of your suggestion of Josh in that backrow alongside Aaron and Faletau either. 

Well what is the problem you have with Navidi in my back row?. FFS he's been playing there for the first two games. With regard to having good defensive players stopping people on the gainline - have we been bad at that in the first two games? As I continually state we have to firstly understand what our gameplan is and pick players accordingly. If you want to play a 10 man kick and chase game then Warburton plays every time. If you want players comfortable with the ball in their hands then he does not. I am afraid the term World Class is thrown around far too easily. We have two players who are in that category at the moment - Foxy and Faletau. Warburton, in my humble opinion, is nowhere near. 
Warburton is in the top 3 opensides in the worlds. Not really much of a debate

May be not much of a debate for you. I will remind you that according to Gatland Warburton is not the best open side in Britain & Ireland if his recent selections are anything to go by. Clearly you have an opinion along with some others on here which I respect. My own opinion differs markedly. As I have said it comes down to what gameplan you have. My opinion is more in line with Stuart Barnes' assessment prior to the Lions tour. His comment was " the Lions won't win the series with Warburton playing at 7 ". It appears that Gatland, from his selection, agreed. 
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