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Rolling mauls.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rolling mauls.....
    Posted: 12 January 2016 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

A maul begins.......


So when does a maul end?

Take the following scenario... a lineout; the attacking side set up a maul which the defending side contest by engaging with the majority of their forwards. This " we will contest" decision by the defending side is successful and the maul doesn't move.

In response to this, the ballcarrier and the three players immediately in front of him break away and start moving forwards. They are still bound to each other but not to any defender. Has the maul finished? And in detaching, one of the players has himself become unbound at the front of this maul and is now almost dragging it forward by his hand on one of the "maulers" shoulders. A case of truck-and-trailer at the front of the maul?

Good question, John! As someone who hates rolling mauls with a passion, I feel that the laws governing what is/isn't allowed are far from clear, and in any case are not reffed in the same way by different refs. I'll be interested to see the answer to this one...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2016 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

A maul begins.......


So when does a maul end?

Take the following scenario... a lineout; the attacking side set up a maul which the defending side contest by engaging with the majority of their forwards. This " we will contest" decision by the defending side is successful and the maul doesn't move.

In response to this, the ballcarrier and the three players immediately in front of him break away and start moving forwards. They are still bound to each other but not to any defender. Has the maul finished? And in detaching, one of the players has himself become unbound at the front of this maul and is now almost dragging it forward by his hand on one of the "maulers" shoulders. A case of truck-and-trailer at the front of the maul?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2015 at 11:45am
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:


There is NO crossing rule in Rugby Union !

 
 
It might help if the referees' sign for obstruction was anything other than crossed arms

But the "OBSTRUCTION" signal was in place way before Jiffy & his "CROSSING" ... "NUMBERS" rants started hitting the screen and airwaves ....

Just out of interest just three weeks ago I stopped play, gave the signal (2 below) & some "wag" shouted there was no crossing there Ref !!!


1 2

One player was bleeding more than Rupert Moon at Eugene Cross Park !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 February 2015 at 10:41am
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:


There is NO crossing rule in Rugby Union !

 
 
It might help if the referees' sign for obstruction was anything other than crossed arms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2015 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...

How many times ....

There is NO crossing rule in Rugby Union !

There is an obstruction rule & for Referees to apply it a player from the ball carriers own team must have obstructed or prevented a tackle by running or moving in front of the ball carrier !

This "crossing" malarkey was introduced by a certain pundit that came back to Union from League & we all know that whatever he says the populous believe ! I remember him in the past being (ahem) "dressed down" by the WRU Referees Department over certain comments regarding Law on TV !
2012 rule change:

2. Crossing

Rugby has become a very linear game. Running angles and points of contact have straightened over the past ten years – you could map out most professional running lines on an Etch-A-Sketch.

It is for this very reason that penalising the act of crossing is such a travesty. Few teams cross intentionally, it’s usually the by-product of a creative backs move being mistimed, overrun or an innocent miscalculation. There is often little benefit to the attacking team in deliberately crossing, as blocking one defender in the modern game has limited impact, particularly from first phase, where most defensive lines tend to double tackle – why block one tackler when another is a matter of inches away? Yet again, an often positive discretion receives the same sanction as a negative one.

Recommended change:  Free-kick to the defending team.


Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/three-law-changes-that-would-improve-rugby-21024#bCULtFJ6HTitjb1A.99

does not matter what word is used...it is the same thing...which for me, happens many a time during a maul which goes "un noticed".



As far as I am aware, this was a proposal, and never made the IRB Law Book, Law changes always occur in the season following a World Cup !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 February 2015 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...

How many times ....

There is NO crossing rule in Rugby Union !

There is an obstruction rule & for Referees to apply it a player from the ball carriers own team must have obstructed or prevented a tackle by running or moving in front of the ball carrier !

This "crossing" malarkey was introduced by a certain pundit that came back to Union from League & we all know that whatever he says the populous believe ! I remember him in the past being (ahem) "dressed down" by the WRU Referees Department over certain comments regarding Law on TV !
2012 rule change:

2. Crossing

Rugby has become a very linear game. Running angles and points of contact have straightened over the past ten years – you could map out most professional running lines on an Etch-A-Sketch.

It is for this very reason that penalising the act of crossing is such a travesty. Few teams cross intentionally, it’s usually the by-product of a creative backs move being mistimed, overrun or an innocent miscalculation. There is often little benefit to the attacking team in deliberately crossing, as blocking one defender in the modern game has limited impact, particularly from first phase, where most defensive lines tend to double tackle – why block one tackler when another is a matter of inches away? Yet again, an often positive discretion receives the same sanction as a negative one.

Recommended change:  Free-kick to the defending team.


Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/blogs/three-law-changes-that-would-improve-rugby-21024#bCULtFJ6HTitjb1A.99

does not matter what word is used...it is the same thing...which for me, happens many a time during a maul which goes "un noticed".




Edited by PE SA - 09 February 2015 at 4:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2015 at 7:50pm
Once again at the weekend, the law was totally ignored (forget which match) - two forwards, including the ball carrier, became detached from the maul - there was the most tenuous arm-length contact between one of them and the maul, after which they re-joined a few yards upfield.

Did the ref penalise this? Did he, F**k!

Just get rid of this abortion... please!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2015 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...

How many times ....

There is NO crossing rule in Rugby Union !

There is an obstruction rule & for Referees to apply it a player from the ball carriers own team must have obstructed or prevented a tackle by running or moving in front of the ball carrier !

This "crossing" malarkey was introduced by a certain pundit that came back to Union from League & we all know that whatever he says the populous believe ! I remember him in the past being (ahem) "dressed down" by the WRU Referees Department over certain comments regarding Law on TV !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by Once a monkey Once a monkey wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

All of the above reinforces my view that rolling mauls should be banned. It's obvious that even the best refs are unable to spot the many transgressions involved in many tries scored by this method.

It would be quite simple - change the law to state that no ground can be made from a lineout via a maul (for both sides, to make it fair). Teams would then have to pass the ball out and find more imaginative ways to score tries.



The same could be said of Rucks, Scrums & Tackle Area, so do we ban these too ?

I dont generally have an issue with mauls in open play, as you seldom see the organisation and net gains seen from lineouts. The general problem for me with mauls from lineouts is that there are often so many people moving at any one time, it is often nigh on impossible for refs to see just what is actually happening, and whether the ball carrier has actually joined the back of a flying wedge. It must be a joy to be a fan of a team who excel, as per the Tigers against us, but for the neutral it isn't much of a spectacle.

The IRB need to take account of the neutrals a bit more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

All of the above reinforces my view that rolling mauls should be banned. It's obvious that even the best refs are unable to spot the many transgressions involved in many tries scored by this method.

It would be quite simple - change the law to state that no ground can be made from a lineout via a maul (for both sides, to make it fair). Teams would then have to pass the ball out and find more imaginative ways to score tries.

The same could be said of Rucks, Scrums & Tackle Area, so do we ban these too ?
I dont generally have an issue with mauls in open play, as you seldom see the organisation and net gains seen from lineouts. The general problem for me with mauls from lineouts is that there are often so many people moving at any one time, it is often nigh on impossible for refs to see just what is actually happening, and whether the ball carrier has actually joined the back of a flying wedge. It must be a joy to be a fan of a team who excel, as per the Tigers against us, but for the neutral it isn't much of a spectacle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Once a monkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...

so technically a scrum is also offside?
A scrum is a method of re-starting the game after an infringement/error.
 
A maul occurs from either open play or from a re-start mechanism such as the scrum, lineout or drop out/kick off.
 
Different things
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...

so technically a scrum is also offside?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 2:01pm
not a lover...to me, its offside. 

man at the back holding the ball with about 8 players in front of him makes a mockery of the crossing rule...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

All of the above reinforces my view that rolling mauls should be banned. It's obvious that even the best refs are unable to spot the many transgressions involved in many tries scored by this method.

It would be quite simple - change the law to state that no ground can be made from a lineout via a maul (for both sides, to make it fair). Teams would then have to pass the ball out and find more imaginative ways to score tries.

what about when a maul is formed from open play? the point is most mauls can be defended with correct body positioning and a solid defensive unit. 

The problem is most rugby players are stupid and on the pitch are taught to act like dogs.. where's the ball, where's the ball, let me at the ball, I want the ball. the issue when defending a maul is that it makes it really hard when you have defending players standing up to get at the ball carrier to try and bring them down.

Drive the maul backwards and the offensive team has no option but to get the ball out of the maul and into open play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2015 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

All of the above reinforces my view that rolling mauls should be banned. It's obvious that even the best refs are unable to spot the many transgressions involved in many tries scored by this method.

It would be quite simple - change the law to state that no ground can be made from a lineout via a maul (for both sides, to make it fair). Teams would then have to pass the ball out and find more imaginative ways to score tries.

The same could be said of Rucks, Scrums & Tackle Area, so do we ban these too ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2015 at 4:18pm
All of the above reinforces my view that rolling mauls should be banned. It's obvious that even the best refs are unable to spot the many transgressions involved in many tries scored by this method.

It would be quite simple - change the law to state that no ground can be made from a lineout via a maul (for both sides, to make it fair). Teams would then have to pass the ball out and find more imaginative ways to score tries.
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