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Two games , no tries ..

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TheKing View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 12:26am
Originally posted by Sandman Sandman wrote:

Didn’t see the game, so this opinion is based on previous performances. Steff Hughes isn’t up to the top level of the games. He’s a great grafter and always a solid performer, but nothing else. He offers very little in attack and rarely has a try assist. Jonny Williams is clearly our first choice 12, then we have to go to Asquith as a second choice 12. Just my opinion. 

Absolutely this.

They’ve attempted to make him a leader. Attempted to make him a 10. The guy isn’t a pro standard player, give it up.

Baldwin left as a result of being further down the pecking order than Hughes, and I’d bet that Asquith is (rightly) miffed too.


Edited by TheKing - 05 October 2020 at 12:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 12:31am
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Credit where credit is due Halfpenny was exceptional. His back must hurt from carrying this team. 

Strange post given the topic at hand.

He may be a great kicker (on his day), but he doesn’t hit the line, cut the line and can’t counter. This contributes in no small measure to our lack of potency.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 12:33am
Looks to me that our guys need to be told absolutely no kicking out of hand in the opposition half for the next couple of games. A real low percentage tactic which we seem to have become obsessed with.

Edited by TheKing - 05 October 2020 at 12:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 4:56am
                             LONG LIVE THE KING!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 6:19am
Originally posted by TheKing TheKing wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Credit where credit is due Halfpenny was exceptional. His back must hurt from carrying this team. 


Strange post given the topic at hand.

He may be a great kicker (on his day), but he doesn’t hit the line, cut the line and can’t counter. This contributes in no small measure to our lack of potency.


It must have been someone else that joined every structured attack we did, put Steff Evs away for the kick in field and ran for over 100 mts in the game.

You and Dic are totally fine to stick to your narrative with Halfpenny. I prefer watching performances.

He had a very good game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by TheKing TheKing wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Credit where credit is due Halfpenny was exceptional. His back must hurt from carrying this team. 


Strange post given the topic at hand.

He may be a great kicker (on his day), but he doesn’t hit the line, cut the line and can’t counter. This contributes in no small measure to our lack of potency.


It must have been someone else that joined every structured attack we did, put Steff Evs away for the kick in field and ran for over 100 mts in the game.

You and Dic are totally fine to stick to your narrative with Halfpenny. I prefer watching performances.

He had a very good game.

I am with you on that one Wil. Defensively Leigh is still the best 15 in the World, he is one of the best, if not the best goalkicker. To criticise his attacking play to justify non selection seems pretty bizarre to me. OK he isn't Jordan Larmour but his instinct is to run the ball back and he is clever at releasing others. 100m gained was probably 70m more than any other Scarlet in that game. It would be interesting to hear who his critics would select especially with Liam & Tomi Lewis both injured.

The Scarlets deficiencies in attack are many and varied but Leigh isn't one of them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 8:05am
As G.P.R says our deficiencies in attack are many and varied.It strikes me that three of these are highlighted by the King's three posts
1.A 5/8 who kicks too much-even to the extent of cross-kicking horizontally to the wing-seen on saturday,not for the 1st time
2.A second5/8 who lacks the attributes normally associated with the rôle-most glaringly,a complete lack of pace:on Saturday he was easily picked off by the opposition tight-head,when ambling cross-,field.
3.We are playing without an attacking full-back.Arguably Halfpenny's attributes as a kicker (we were treated to a master-class on saturday)will always merit his inclusion,but Saturday's game showed that we must score tries.I recall the debate in the 80's,concerning the merits of Thorburn and Tony Clement for the Welsh full-back berth-all things being equal,it's a healthy debate to have.Currently,however,we are not scoring tries.We kicked a record nine penalties,but I doubt that our backs would have scored 9 tries against any side,at any level.


Edited by Dic Penderyn - 05 October 2020 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 9:00am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by TheKing TheKing wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Credit where credit is due Halfpenny was exceptional. His back must hurt from carrying this team. 


Strange post given the topic at hand.

He may be a great kicker (on his day), but he doesn’t hit the line, cut the line and can’t counter. This contributes in no small measure to our lack of potency.


It must have been someone else that joined every structured attack we did, put Steff Evs away for the kick in field and ran for over 100 mts in the game.

You and Dic are totally fine to stick to your narrative with Halfpenny. I prefer watching performances.

He had a very good game.

I am with you on that one Wil. Defensively Leigh is still the best 15 in the World, he is one of the best, if not the best goalkicker. To criticise his attacking play to justify non selection seems pretty bizarre to me. OK he isn't Jordan Larmour but his instinct is to run the ball back and he is clever at releasing others. 100m gained was probably 70m more than any other Scarlet in that game. It would be interesting to hear who his critics would select especially with Liam & Tomi Lewis both injured.

The Scarlets deficiencies in attack are many and varied but Leigh isn't one of them. 
What I like most about Halfpenny is when he's isolated in his own 22 with 2 or 3 opponents bearing down upon him - you know, you just know its going to be ok. 
That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

As G.P.R says our deficiencies in attack are many and varied.It strikes me that three of these are highlighted by the King's three posts
1.A 5/8 who kicks too much-even to the extent of cross-kicking horizontally to the wing-seen on saturday,not for the 1st time
2.A second5/8 who lacks the attributes normally associated with the rôle-most glaringly,a complete lack of pace:on Saturday he was easily picked off by the opposition tight-head,when ambling cross-,field.
3.We are playing without an attacking full-back.Arguably Halfpenny's attributes as a kicker (we were treated to a master-class on saturday)will always merit his inclusion,but Saturday's game showed that we must score tries.I recall the debate in the 80's,concerning the merits of Thorburn and Tony Clement for the Welsh full-back berth-all things being equal,it's a healthy debate to have.Currently,however,we are not scoring tries.We kicked a record nine penalties,but I doubt that our backs would have scored 9 tries against any side,at any level.





1. Where does his highness say that, I might have missed it?
I thought he said our coaches applied a tactical approach to where they wanted to kick/not kick from, and that the players obviously followed it. Questionable tactic for the coaches to answer.

2. Steff was a late replacement for Jonny W. Tyler was carrying a small injury and only had 30 mins of rugby. It wasn't an unreasonable selection given that, but the comments suggest he was picked ahead of these guys. Not really.

3. Stuck on transmit re your views on Halfpenny. I'm judging his week on week performance. Good of late. We will have a jolly joust on this all season.

Love using the term 5/8 … proper rugby.

Edited by Wil Chips - 05 October 2020 at 9:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2020 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

As G.P.R says our deficiencies in attack are many and varied.It strikes me that three of these are highlighted by the King's three posts
1.A 5/8 who kicks too much-even to the extent of cross-kicking horizontally to the wing-seen on saturday,not for the 1st time
2.A second5/8 who lacks the attributes normally associated with the rôle-most glaringly,a complete lack of pace:on Saturday he was easily picked off by the opposition tight-head,when ambling cross-,field.
3.We are playing without an attacking full-back.Arguably Halfpenny's attributes as a kicker (we were treated to a master-class on saturday)will always merit his inclusion,but Saturday's game showed that we must score tries.I recall the debate in the 80's,concerning the merits of Thorburn and Tony Clement for the Welsh full-back berth-all things being equal,it's a healthy debate to have.Currently,however,we are not scoring tries.We kicked a record nine penalties,but I doubt that our backs would have scored 9 tries against any side,at any level.





1. Where does his highness say that, I might have missed it?
I thought he said our coaches applied a tactical approach to where they wanted to kick/not kick from, and that the players obviously followed it. Questionable tactic for the coaches to answer.

2. Steff was a late replacement for Jonny W. Tyler was carrying a small injury and only had 30 mins of rugby. It wasn't an unreasonable selection given that, but the comments suggest he was picked ahead of these guys. Not really.

3. Stuck on transmit re your views on Halfpenny. I'm judging his week on week performance. Good of late. We will have a jolly joust on this all season.

Love using the term 5/8 … proper rugby.

1.Fair play,a little extrapolation on my part.When did Dan last make a break,though?Game plan or not,if you can't run:you've got to kick....chicken and egg.
2.I agree with His Highness re.this player.Simply don't believe he should be in the frame at all.
3.Joust we shall!


Edited by Dic Penderyn - 05 October 2020 at 9:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raised By Peregos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 10:36am
Bringing together points from all threads here...

Wet and windy, kickable penalties, arguably the best goalkicker in the world = take the points. NZ do this ALL the time. But yes they score tries...

Yes, we aren't scoring enough tries and, once in the 22, not looking like it either. Red line fever, lack of head's up rugby, reading the space. We put a lot of pressure on, and ball retention has improved but I am still baffled by the approach of taking the ball of the scrum half standing still and THEN accelerating? What happened to taking the ball at pace?

Overall, we did well against a team that's always tough to beat, and the whole team should take some credit for that.

Steff Hughes - never going to be the most scintillating of centres but I think he's assured, makes very few mistakes and actually has a range of skills. He's the classic good club player. I have no problem with playing him when the need arises. Which brings me onto my main issue...

Dan Jones. Before I go any further, I'm going to say I don't think he's a bad player. In fact, I think he's pretty good at what he does. He's surprisingly brave for his size, a great tactical kicker, and a decent passer. BUT... I don't think it's surprisingly that our best attacking rugby came with Patchell at outside half. IMHO we CANNOT play attacking, running rugby with Dan Jones at OH. He doesn't have the speed, agility, running creativity or passing vision for this. And then when you put him alongside the mercurial but myopic Gareth Davies (love his abilities, but head's up vision is not one of his finest) you have nothing that can get a backline going. 

We have three other OHs in the squad now who are ALL creative and runners. A sign of the future progression of the team? Surely we should be starting one of these, with Dan Jones as the tactical switch option on the bench rather than the other way around?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Bringing together points from all threads here...

Wet and windy, kickable penalties, arguably the best goalkicker in the world = take the points. NZ do this ALL the time. But yes they score tries...

Yes, we aren't scoring enough tries and, once in the 22, not looking like it either. Red line fever, lack of head's up rugby, reading the space. We put a lot of pressure on, and ball retention has improved but I am still baffled by the approach of taking the ball of the scrum half standing still and THEN accelerating? What happened to taking the ball at pace?

Overall, we did well against a team that's always tough to beat, and the whole team should take some credit for that.

Steff Hughes - never going to be the most scintillating of centres but I think he's assured, makes very few mistakes and actually has a range of skills. He's the classic good club player. I have no problem with playing him when the need arises. Which brings me onto my main issue...

Dan Jones. Before I go any further, I'm going to say I don't think he's a bad player. In fact, I think he's pretty good at what he does. He's surprisingly brave for his size, a great tactical kicker, and a decent passer. BUT... I don't think it's surprisingly that our best attacking rugby came with Patchell at outside half. IMHO we CANNOT play attacking, running rugby with Dan Jones at OH. He doesn't have the speed, agility, running creativity or passing vision for this. And then when you put him alongside the mercurial but myopic Gareth Davies (love his abilities, but head's up vision is not one of his finest) you have nothing that can get a backline going. 

We have three other OHs in the squad now who are ALL creative and runners. A sign of the future progression of the team? Surely we should be starting one of these, with Dan Jones as the tactical switch option on the bench rather than the other way around?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 10:48am
I'd like to see Dan Davi(e)s being given a run out during the international period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Bringing together points from all threads here...

Wet and windy, kickable penalties, arguably the best goalkicker in the world = take the points. NZ do this ALL the time. But yes they score tries...

Yes, we aren't scoring enough tries and, once in the 22, not looking like it either. Red line fever, lack of head's up rugby, reading the space. We put a lot of pressure on, and ball retention has improved but I am still baffled by the approach of taking the ball of the scrum half standing still and THEN accelerating? What happened to taking the ball at pace?

Overall, we did well against a team that's always tough to beat, and the whole team should take some credit for that.

Steff Hughes - never going to be the most scintillating of centres but I think he's assured, makes very few mistakes and actually has a range of skills. He's the classic good club player. I have no problem with playing him when the need arises. Which brings me onto my main issue...

Dan Jones. Before I go any further, I'm going to say I don't think he's a bad player. In fact, I think he's pretty good at what he does. He's surprisingly brave for his size, a great tactical kicker, and a decent passer. BUT... I don't think it's surprisingly that our best attacking rugby came with Patchell at outside half. IMHO we CANNOT play attacking, running rugby with Dan Jones at OH. He doesn't have the speed, agility, running creativity or passing vision for this. And then when you put him alongside the mercurial but myopic Gareth Davies (love his abilities, but head's up vision is not one of his finest) you have nothing that can get a backline going. 

We have three other OHs in the squad now who are ALL creative and runners. A sign of the future progression of the team? Surely we should be starting one of these, with Dan Jones as the tactical switch option on the bench rather than the other way around?



Very sensible and balanced post. Have a thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletsrules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 11:23am
I think Dan is a decent outside half for us and the 2 games vs Bath and Toulon in Jan 2018 showed exactly what he is capable of , the conditions on saturday certainly didnt help matters and Munster didnt even look that attacking, its just they broke through tackles and had piggy back penalties into dangerous positions where they then scored tries from or had 1 crappy kick given back to them with a lazy defence allowing them to score their first try.

Munster were giving penalties away for fun at times and in areas where there were points on offer, so we were always going to take these points in the weather rather than be more attack minded and go for points
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2020 at 11:26am
Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

I think Dan is a decent outside half for us and the 2 games vs Bath and Toulon in Jan 2018 showed exactly what he is capable of , the conditions on saturday certainly didnt help matters and Munster didnt even look that attacking, its just they broke through tackles and had piggy back penalties into dangerous positions where they then scored tries from or had 1 crappy kick given back to them with a lazy defence allowing them to score their first try.

Munster were giving penalties away for fun at times and in areas where there were points on offer, so we were always going to take these points in the weather rather than be more attack minded and go for points

Dan is a really good outside, but needs a 12 as second playmaker. Dan kicked well satuday
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