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UKIP and the rise of the right

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OwainLlanedi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OwainLlanedi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:05pm
I've always found the immigration question to be purposely sensationalised by the right, and comments on this thread kind of reflect the polarised views on the issue. The Churchill WWII analogy does leave me cold, and the propaganda of the plucky Brits standing up for the free world alone totally misleading. Immigration has long been a source for social and economic good for Wales and other countries of the UK, whose positive effects outweigh any perceived sense of "taking advantage of the system".

For me, the biggest problem with a Welsh UKIP vote is that isolation from Europe really could be devastating for the Welsh economy, which makes the high percentage of UKIP votes in impoverished areas of the South Wales Valleys even more shocking. The irony of a populist vote for an ex-banker who wishes to directly remove sources of investment to Wales doesn't seem to have reached certain areas of Wales.

Edited by OwainLlanedi - 27 May 2014 at 12:07pm
"Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omri jones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:10pm
If any country has cause for concern over immigration it is Wales. So many of our rural communities have been slowly decimated by  English immigrants who have so little respect for our language or culture, that they are barely distinguishable from villages in Sussex in the summer months. 
As for Winston Churchill, he was a ruthless imperialist who had no qualms on gassing Iraqis or other "lesser" races so let's not make a hero of him just because he had a nice turn of phrase in the English language
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OwainLlanedi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by MikeM MikeM wrote:

There's nothing wrong with immigration providing the people coming here have something to offer. What gets me are the ones that come over hoping and living on benefits because it's easier here than in their own country.

Then there are the ones that are fleeing the tyrannical reign in their county only to come here and try and change our country to be like theirs.

There should be certain rules that should be followed when wanting to come to this country to live. 
1. speak the language.
2. Have something to offer in the way of a profession. Ie. Be a tradesman/person
3. Be prepared to integrate
Not necessarily in that order but you get the idea.
There's probably a few more things that we could think up but they are just the basics.


Shouldn't it be a fundamental human right to speak the language you choose and to live your life by your values amongst your own community should you choose do so?

Try and change our country to be like theirs? I take it this is the conspiracy theory that we'll all be living by Sharia law in 10 years time and exclusively eating Halal meat? Always enjoyed those exposes by the red tops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote scarlet_rob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:11pm
I went to Spain on holiday and the bloody immigrants over there ruined my holiday. Who do they think they are? Going over there, lying around in the sun doing nothing, opening their pubs serving pints of beer, showing premier league football, selling fish and chips and all day full English breakfasts. They even sold their food in the supermarkets!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geordie scarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:27pm
Try being an immigrant yourself, by that i mean living in England and being Welsh...constant reminders of sheep, leeks and mining  
 
Even worse supporting a team that actually has those immigrants in it...bloody Saffers, Scots, English and a New Zealander in a WELSH region...who do they think they are, coming over here, taking our regions players places..i would make them all speak Welsh before a contract is signed !! Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mammamammon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by geordie scarlet geordie scarlet wrote:

Try being an immigrant yourself, by that i mean living in England and being Welsh...constant reminders of sheep, leeks and mining  
 
Even worse supporting a team that actually has those immigrants in it...bloody Saffers, Scots, English and a New Zealander in a WELSH region...who do they think they are, coming over here, taking our regions players places..i would make them all speak Welsh before a contract is signed !! Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:33pm
What's the point in going abroad on a holiday if your going there for the same things we have here though? I know people do but kind of defeats the purpose of going abroad? Might aswell go down Tenby .
This is a sore subject and people will have very strong and different views. Everyone is entitled to theirs but don't try and force it onto others. Unless your a Jehovah's Witness, can't stand the whole knocking on your door forcing their religion and beliefs on others. Does my swede in! They should be able to speak either English or welsh though. Human right shite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by geordie scarlet geordie scarlet wrote:

Try being an immigrant yourself, by that i mean living in England and being Welsh...constant reminders of sheep, leeks and mining  
 

Even worse supporting a team that actually has those immigrants in it...bloody Saffers, Scots, English and a New Zealander in a WELSH region...who do they think they are, coming over here, taking our regions players places..i would make them all speak Welsh before a contract is signed !! Wink

 

Didn't they have mines up north then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geordie scarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Originally posted by geordie scarlet geordie scarlet wrote:

Try being an immigrant yourself, by that i mean living in England and being Welsh...constant reminders of sheep, leeks and mining  
 

Even worse supporting a team that actually has those immigrants in it...bloody Saffers, Scots, English and a New Zealander in a WELSH region...who do they think they are, coming over here, taking our regions players places..i would make them all speak Welsh before a contract is signed !! Wink

 

Didn't they have mines up north then?
LOL....one of my responses !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Coleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:09pm
Wink
Originally posted by scarlet_rob scarlet_rob wrote:

UKIP don't do very well in big cities. There people have evidenced immigration and seen that it works and contributes to our society. The Mail and other right wing rags likes to portray immigrants as benefit scroungers or criminals which simply isn't true.

UKIP have their own take on why they don't do very well in London

'...party spokesperson Suzanne Evans has uttered a sound bite Ukip would probably rather forget. Discussing the party's relatively poor performance in London on Radio 4, Evans seemed to agree with the host that they had difficulty appealing to the "educated, cultural and young."'

 
.....not to metion all them blydi foreigners that live there. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:35pm
I'm not worried, it's a protest vote with only 36% of the voters voting.

listened to a bbc interview where people were asked if they would vote UKIP at a general election and they responded probably not.

The issue is though there are no credible alternatives. we have 3 parties which are morphed into the same beast. people are just pissed with all these eton toffs running the country and want some core values brought back...

Personally I wouldn't vote UKIP even though when I took a test to see who I should vote for the majority of my answers matched UKIP by 78%, then again it matched the tories as well by the same margin (says a lot really).

The tories want a strong UKIP and for UKIP to win seats in the GE as long as it isn't at their expense because when we get another hung parliament next year the Cons will work better in bed with UKIP than they have with the libs.


Edited by salmidach - 27 May 2014 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

I'm not worried, it's a protest vote with only 36% of the voters voting.

listened to a bbc interview where people were asked if they would vote UKIP at a general election and they responded probably not.

The issue is though there are no credible alternatives. we have 3 parties which are morphed into the same beast. people are just pissed with all these eton toffs running the country and want some core values brought back...

Personally I wouldn't vote UKIP even though when I took a test to see who I should vote for the majority of my answers matched UKIP by 78%, then again it matched the tories as well by the same margin (says a lot really).

The tories want a strong UKIP and for UKIP to win seats in the GE as long as it isn't at their expense because when we get another hung parliament next year the Cons will work better in bed with UKIP than they have with the libs.



The thought of Cameron & Farage in bed together has put me right off my dinner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by M.M. M.M. wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

I'm not worried, it's a protest vote with only 36% of the voters voting.

listened to a bbc interview where people were asked if they would vote UKIP at a general election and they responded probably not.

The issue is though there are no credible alternatives. we have 3 parties which are morphed into the same beast. people are just pissed with all these eton toffs running the country and want some core values brought back...

Personally I wouldn't vote UKIP even though when I took a test to see who I should vote for the majority of my answers matched UKIP by 78%, then again it matched the tories as well by the same margin (says a lot really).

The tories want a strong UKIP and for UKIP to win seats in the GE as long as it isn't at their expense because when we get another hung parliament next year the Cons will work better in bed with UKIP than they have with the libs.



The thought of Cameron & Farage in bed together has put me right off my dinner.

On the plus side, they wouldn't be able to produce [genetic] offspring together. Well, not easily, in any case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by MikeM MikeM wrote:

 What gets me are the ones that come over hoping and living on benefits because it's easier here than in their own country.

Yeah, thing is the number of people coming over here for that purpose is statistically negligible. There are probably a few thousand in a country of 80million people. And how does that factor alone actually affect the quality of life of people and so disenfranchise them to vote for parties like UKIP whose only policy that people know about is to get out of the EU?

That's where that argument falls away.

They also want to privatise the NHS; would UKIP have sustained their vote on that? Can't see it.

I'll be blunt: I think people throwing an anti-EU vote out there (and this is for the UK, Spain and Greece have their own reasoning - austerity etc.) is because of the uncontrolled immigration from outside of the EU. I think this was an anti-Islam vote as much as anything. The Basildon bloke on Radio 4 last week said he voted UKIP because of the amount of Muslims in the country.

Sorry, that's British policy - not anything to do with Europe or the EU.

The creation of the EU has been a beacon for peace and prosperity, stability and freedom and we should be proud of that, not seeking to drown it because of a fear of Johnny Foreigner.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OwainLlanedi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

They should be able to speak either English or welsh though. Human right shite.


How little do I want to live in a country run by you Sosban FACH.


The irony of you saying they should be able to speak the language and you getting your own username wrong does make me laugh. Pedantic, I know, but funny.

Edited by OwainLlanedi - 27 May 2014 at 2:28pm
"Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omri jones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:49pm
I certainly didn't vote for UKIP who are just a rightwing splinter group from the Tories, a one man band, who is a little more witty , honest/tactless than the usual politician. But I did vote for No2-EU which is a leftwing  group. My main reason for deserting Plaid, the pro-EU party I normally vote for, is to do with the meddling of the EU in Ukraine and elsewhere way beyond its traditional boundaries  and the imposition of sanctions against Russia, which has reacted with great restraint, while Russian speakers and anti-fascists have been burned alive, massacred and are now being attacked with heavy armour, helicopters and jet bombers. If the idea is to provoke a war with Russia then they are going about it the right way and there will come a time when Putin is going to have to move in to protect SE Ukraine. 
The EU politicians are rapidly getting us  involved in more and more foreign adventures at the behest of their US masters. The US and several EU countries have already been overtly involved against Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and succeeded in changing regimes and totally destroying those countries without ever being able to control them. However Russia is not a third world country with obsolete weapons. It has a nuclear capability.
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