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Wales 6 Nations Squad Announced

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Fscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

No relation to Joel that I'm aware of. 


You're correct, different spelling of surnames in any case.
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miaow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:24pm
Jonah Holmes deserves his place. Looked a tidy player who was a bit nervous when he played. More caps, less nerves, and we should have a decent 3rd/4th choice sort of player who can do what Amos does, but to a higher standard.

Scott Williams the massive omission for me. Have to think that's his Wales days over now. Shame. Only just turned 29, and Foxy and Parkes are 32/33.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Jonah Holmes deserves his place. Looked a tidy player who was a bit nervous when he played. More caps, less nerves, and we should have a decent 3rd/4th choice sort of player who can do what Amos does, but to a higher standard.

Scott Williams the massive omission for me. Have to think that's his Wales days over now. Shame. Only just turned 29, and Foxy and Parkes are 32/33.


Nosense! Quality player, just plagued by injuries & playing in a team that, at present, are dire. Time is still on his side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Mr Ian Mr Ian wrote:

can I say some strange call up?...Could be a way for exiles to invite them to come back in Wales?
Where are Samson, Jones, MacLeod?


Samson - not good enough, not fit enough, not good enough basic skills. Think he's finished as a long term Wales option now unless he gets leaner (while retaining strength) and works on scrummaging, because he can't compete with any other Welsh prop in the loose.

Jones...Dan Jones...? Probably been surpassed by Sam Davies this season though would have put them neck and neck for the BaBas game. A rotation player at club level, not exactly demanding a Wales cap yet. Probably behind the likes of Sheedy at Bristol as well. Maybe 7th/8th choice for Wales, at best.

MacLeod - not good enough either due to depth. He'd need to add a fair bit more to his game to get in ahead of Thomas Young and Ellis Jenkins who aren't in the squad, admittedly Ellis is injured.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Ian Mr Ian wrote:

can I say some strange call up?...Could be a way for exiles to invite them to come back in Wales?
Where are Samson, Jones, MacLeod?


Samson - not good enough, not fit enough, not good enough basic skills. Think he's finished as a long term Wales option now unless he gets leaner (while retaining strength) and works on scrummaging, because he can't compete with any other Welsh prop in the loose.

Jones...Dan Jones...? Probably been surpassed by Sam Davies this season though would have put them neck and neck for the BaBas game. A rotation player at club level, not exactly demanding a Wales cap yet. Probably behind the likes of Sheedy at Bristol as well. Maybe 7th/8th choice for Wales, at best.

MacLeod - not good enough either due to depth. He'd need to add a fair bit more to his game to get in ahead of Thomas Young and Ellis Jenkins who aren't in the squad, admittedly Ellis is injured.

I could agree with you, but is Brown better then Samson with is few scrum skills? Or Moriarty and Williams without game time this season are better then Josh and Dan?
Ok my view is not so bilanced, but I fear the good Pivac left the Scarlets in not good way in dress room and some calls showed it...of course is only my view and surely I m wrong
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Jonah Holmes deserves his place. Looked a tidy player who was a bit nervous when he played. More caps, less nerves, and we should have a decent 3rd/4th choice sort of player who can do what Amos does, but to a higher standard.

Scott Williams the massive omission for me. Have to think that's his Wales days over now. Shame. Only just turned 29, and Foxy and Parkes are 32/33.


Nosense! Quality player, just plagued by injuries & playing in a team that, at present, are dire. Time is still on his side.


How is it nonsense? He's not played for Wales for 18 months, he's been overlooked repeatedly when we've been ravaged by injuries in the world cup, the babas game, and now again this six nations. Owen Williams (a fly half/centre of average ability who can't get in the Gloucester team), an Englishman, and George North (a winger) have been selected over him.

You have to accept reality and say that, yes, in theory he could easily still win another 20 caps for Wales. But the coaches are seeing something we're not and they don't want to pick him.

He was fit enough to play against the Dragons then had a short term injury that kept him out against Saracens.

The Welsh squad has several injured or suspended people in it. So injury isn't an excuse for not including him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by solva solva wrote:

Tompkins needs to shape up now to spare us the embarrassment of either Lane or North at 13


Agree with this. Fine against Italy and Scotland, and maybe at a push France. But if we pick wingers at 13 and players like Rees-Zammit against England or Ireland they will exploit them mercilessly.

Now he's picked, despite being English, you just get on with it. Looks good enough for international rugby, so...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Mr Ian Mr Ian wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Ian Mr Ian wrote:

can I say some strange call up?...Could be a way for exiles to invite them to come back in Wales?
Where are Samson, Jones, MacLeod?


Samson - not good enough, not fit enough, not good enough basic skills. Think he's finished as a long term Wales option now unless he gets leaner (while retaining strength) and works on scrummaging, because he can't compete with any other Welsh prop in the loose.

Jones...Dan Jones...? Probably been surpassed by Sam Davies this season though would have put them neck and neck for the BaBas game. A rotation player at club level, not exactly demanding a Wales cap yet. Probably behind the likes of Sheedy at Bristol as well. Maybe 7th/8th choice for Wales, at best.

MacLeod - not good enough either due to depth. He'd need to add a fair bit more to his game to get in ahead of Thomas Young and Ellis Jenkins who aren't in the squad, admittedly Ellis is injured.

I could agree with you, but is Brown better then Samson with is few scrum skills? Or Moriarty and Williams without game time this season are better then Josh and Dan?
Ok my view is not so bilanced, but I fear the good Pivac left the Scarlets in not good way in dress room and some calls showed it...of course is only my view and surely I m wrong


Yes, Brown is now better than Samson. Just look at their body shapes for starters. Brown  has matured in to a modern tight head prop, built like a brick...outhouse...and has pace and power in the loose. Look at his try against the Ospreys:



There is no way Samson scores a try like that.

Samson was a great player at U20 level but has never lived up to the hype when the scrum laws changed. Now he looks fat but not strong and scrummaging has become about strength, not explosive use of weight. He is not a good scrummager any more so he has to work on that side of his game to become the best scrummaging tight head if he is to win back the starting shirt for Wales. For me, I can't see that happening, so I think his days are numbered with Wales tbh.

Moriarty has proven he's a better back rower, yes. He has a useful skillset - tackling, mainly, and physicality. And he can play 6 and 8. He's not in competition with the players MacLeod and Cubby are, which is why they don't get picked.

Owen Williams...can't say I'm impressed tbh and wouldn't have called him up, but he's more versatile than Dan Jones, that's why he's there. We have problems in the centre and that's why he's been picked.

I also have question marks over Pivac's selections - I think his best quality was recruitment, not coaching. So we'll have to see how it all works out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 2:00pm
The squad looks pretty well balanced to me... one of you made a good point that Holmes of Leicester fills an Amos-sized hole in the wing/15 role... I seem to remember that he's quite small (something which also counts against Steff Evans), though maybe that's wrong. Steff a bit unlucky, IMO, but he was always a bit of an outside bet.

As for other omissions - people should be a bit careful about writing players off... a couple of years ago, I wrote the obituaries of Sexton and Conor Murray, only for both to bounce back - top class players who suffer serious or persistent injury problems can certainly fade for a bit, but with a bit of luck and a fair wind they can always find their way back into the sunshine.

Let's hope that happens for a few who have not made the squad this time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Jonah Holmes deserves his place. Looked a tidy player who was a bit nervous when he played. More caps, less nerves, and we should have a decent 3rd/4th choice sort of player who can do what Amos does, but to a higher standard.

Scott Williams the massive omission for me. Have to think that's his Wales days over now. Shame. Only just turned 29, and Foxy and Parkes are 32/33.


Nosense! Quality player, just plagued by injuries & playing in a team that, at present, are dire. Time is still on his side.


How is it nonsense? He's not played for Wales for 18 months, he's been overlooked repeatedly when we've been ravaged by injuries in the world cup, the babas game, and now again this six nations. Owen Williams (a fly half/centre of average ability who can't get in the Gloucester team), an Englishman, and George North (a winger) have been selected over him.

You have to accept reality and say that, yes, in theory he could easily still win another 20 caps for Wales. But the coaches are seeing something we're not and they don't want to pick him.

He was fit enough to play against the Dragons then had a short term injury that kept him out against Saracens.

The Welsh squad has several injured or suspended people in it. So injury isn't an excuse for not including him.



He actually played for Wales in September of last year v Ireland.

The rest of it is a coaching call as you say. Owen Williams, and Tomkins in particular, are very good backs.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 2:28pm
Holmes seems average sized. Small for modern test rugby, but average for what we'd see in the Pro14 and the Celtic nations. Just wouldn't compare well against the Saffas, Polynesians, and Kiwis - but then who does? Not many up here to be honest. North and Roberts being rare examples. I like Holmes. Decent player, no nonsense without being a donkey or anything like that. You need those kind of players to fill in the gaps between the creative players and the bosh merchants like Parkes or Roberts. Think Conrad Smith as the template of the simple things done to a ridiculously high standard...not saying Holmes is anywhere near that, obviously, but that's what I think he offers. It's just a case of him getting used to this level and relaxing a bit more as I've liked what I've seen from him so far. Steff's some way off unfortunately. Have to hope those rumours to France don't come true.

Fair point on not writing players off. I don't want to, it's done more in frustration that Scott is repeatedly overlooked more than anything else.

I wonder if the medical prognosis of his body is just absolutely terrible and he's constantly breaking down to the point he's just not a viable option anymore. If the Ospreys don't re-sign him then that might be all the proof we need. He's had some big injuries over the years and Warburton is a warning that players who put their bodies on the line don't last long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

He looks the front runner for 13 as he  has played loads of rugby at 13. Dangerous runner and very solid defender. How serious is Wayne I wonder about adding some width to our game; what are the odds of this backline against Italy :-

15. Liam 14. Ress-Zammit 13. Tompkins 12. Owen 11. Adams 10 Biggar 9. Cawdor with Halfpenny, Williams & Evans on the bench.
Pivac won’t drop Parkes mun no way Jose!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Sosban bach Sosban bach wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

He looks the front runner for 13 as he  has played loads of rugby at 13. Dangerous runner and very solid defender. How serious is Wayne I wonder about adding some width to our game; what are the odds of this backline against Italy :-

15. Liam 14. Ress-Zammit 13. Tompkins 12. Owen 11. Adams 10 Biggar 9. Cawdor with Halfpenny, Williams & Evans on the bench.
Pivac won’t drop Parkes mun no way Jose!

Quite right and it appears that virus is still present at PYS. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miaow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2020 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by miaow miaow wrote:

Jonah Holmes deserves his place. Looked a tidy player who was a bit nervous when he played. More caps, less nerves, and we should have a decent 3rd/4th choice sort of player who can do what Amos does, but to a higher standard.

Scott Williams the massive omission for me. Have to think that's his Wales days over now. Shame. Only just turned 29, and Foxy and Parkes are 32/33.


Nosense! Quality player, just plagued by injuries & playing in a team that, at present, are dire. Time is still on his side.


How is it nonsense? He's not played for Wales for 18 months, he's been overlooked repeatedly when we've been ravaged by injuries in the world cup, the babas game, and now again this six nations. Owen Williams (a fly half/centre of average ability who can't get in the Gloucester team), an Englishman, and George North (a winger) have been selected over him.

You have to accept reality and say that, yes, in theory he could easily still win another 20 caps for Wales. But the coaches are seeing something we're not and they don't want to pick him.

He was fit enough to play against the Dragons then had a short term injury that kept him out against Saracens.

The Welsh squad has several injured or suspended people in it. So injury isn't an excuse for not including him.



He actually played for Wales in September of last year v Ireland.

The rest of it is a coaching call as you say. Owen Williams, and Tomkins in particular, are very good backs.







Fair point, forgot about him firing a pass at Steff Evans' waist which Steff dropped with clear space down the wing in front of him and they both looked at each other like they knew that was their world cup hopes over.

I really don't see anything close to being special in Owen Williams. Looks like a player whose strengths can get completely neutralised in the modern game if he's playing at 12, and I don't think he runs the game well from 10. Don't know enough about Tompkins but he looks the real deal and must be good to be in and around that Saracens team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2020 at 8:24am
Owen has been unlucky with injuries. I thought he played pretty well at 12 against both Australia & NZ. His selection when you listen to Pivac is really a no brainer. He covers 10 & 12 unlike the next available player Sam Davies - a sensible selection. For my money if Owen stays fit he would an ideal signing for us. 

As for Tompkins i have wondered why he never really featured in Eddie's plans never knowing that he was Welsh qualified. I think his selection is top drawer stuff from Pivac. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote solva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2020 at 11:59am
Pivac at the 6 Nats launch at Wapping yesterday said Sanjay won’t be ready for the Italy game but may be fit for Ireland  while R-Z is back with Glos and could be OK for Italy.  
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