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Wales Team to face Argentina

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Top notch defense, couple of class finishes, and a lack of a plan b from Argentina when the rolling maul and perceived edge up front failed to materialize.

Applause to the Wales coaches for seeing what most haven't seen in a some young talent placed in a team that only probably featured 4 or 5 first choice players within it and only 2 of those in the pack.

I suspect Argentina will execute a very different game plan next weekend.

Quite right Wil. I am one of Gatland's fiercest critics but he clearly felt both Beard & Lewis were capable and he has been proven correct. The back 3 impressed as a unit and certainly gives every incentive for players like Liam to find their very best form next season. 

Suddenly the tight head headache is looking a little more manageable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Well done to the Welsh team. They were predicted to be seriously bullied up front but stood their ground to a man and defended the gainline as if their lives depended on it. Cubby had his best game since the 6 nations. A big mention to Dillon Lewis and Adam Beard - they have both stepped up and shown that they have serious abilities. 

Hopefully Rhys has shown what most of us on here have known all season - he is the best 10 in Wales & is quite clearly a better all round player than Anscombe. For next weekend I would love to see Ellis at 6 with Cubby at 7.

Once again, we agree - pre-match, I expressed doubts about Lewis (lack of experience) and Beard (not shown much at senior level) - but both really stood up and surprised me - respect!

Rhys is now clearly better than Anscombe (always was, according to some of us)... faster, stronger, a better line and goal kicker, and now also a better controller - perhaps the only aspect where Anscombe had a slight edge in the past.

I also feel that playing both Ellis Jenkins and Cubby is the way to go next week - Seb Davies was one of the few Wales players to be pretty anonymous yesterday - fair play, he's young and was out of position. He'll come again.

As for the game - the Wales game plan worked like a dream, and was executed nearly perfectly by the players - we totally bullied Argentina at the breakdown, invariably tacking them behind the gain line, slowing their ball, or pinching it (turnovers and inconclusive mauls). Their rolling maul was nullified, and we looked far more dangerous in possession. Scrum and lineout both went well overall, with a couple of errors here and there. 

As for individuals - once again, Amos looked class and a dangerous runner - he just needs to improve his judgement of when to offload, and when it's too risky... Josh Adams played really well, being combative in all he did... Scott did OK - a bit quiet - missed one tackle allowing the Pumas to make serious inroads - he'll want to step it up next week ... Hadleigh was superb, catching KOs, running it back, organising - one of our best players on the day... George looks to have his appetite back, and followed Cawdor well for his try - I just wish that when he chases kicks, he would actually smash the receiver, and not just wave his arms about... Patch was another to star - taking good decisions, tackling well, good distribution nearly always, posed a running threat... Cawdor set up George's try superbly and generally played well  apart from an early kick direct to touch. 

In the forwards, Rob was lively as usual, as was Dee... Hill is proving to be a very tidy player... Moriarty had one of his best games for Wales, and Cubby was outstanding... if we want to be super critical, he was a bit slow when the Pumas got their try - he looked knackered by then - but a couple of other guys also failed to stop the charge, so he wasn't alone there. Brilliant, up until then. 

As for the subs, Ryan did well again and the rest looked solid enough.

I'd be inclined to keep almost the same 15/23 for next week, except for Tomos Williams to bench in place of Aled, Ellis Jenkins to 6 instead of Seb Davies, maybe Brad Davies instead of Cory Hill - a 'fresh legs' sub, not a form thing - so Hill on the bench, along with Turnbull or Seb in case Wales want or need to revert to a bigger 6. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 3:51pm
I was slightly surprised to see the players struggling for breath earlier in the game than I’d expect.

Looked up the altitude and saw that SAN Juan is a bit over 2,000 ft above sea level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 6:01pm
It was a great balance yesterday. Whilst we're trying new players , we didnt just throw in a totally inexpeirenced team, we had a lot of form players and some experience from cawdor, north, scott, rob etc 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 8:33pm

Excellent performance by a very inexperienced Welsh team missing more than a dozen frontline players .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 9:50pm
Patchell needs a good run at 10 with the best players up front, inside and outside to see if he’s a viable option for the World Cup.
Our squad depth isn’t near Ireland, England or New Zealand but it’s improving, come World Cup our squad will likely be (assuming all are fit)
1) Rob / Wyn / Nicky Smith
2) Ken / Dee / Elias
3) Samson / Dillon / Francis
4) Ball / Beard
5) Alun Wyn / Seb Davies
6) Shingler / Moriarty
7) Warburton / Ellis Jenkins / Cubby
8) Faletau

9) Gar Davies / Tomos Williams / Rhodri Williams (?)
10) Patchell / Biggar
11) Steff / Josh Adams
12) Parkes / Watkin
13) Foxy / Scott
14) George / Amos
15) Halfpenny / Liam

Edited by SospanMawr - 10 June 2018 at 9:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:05pm
You can add Navidi at 7 to that list.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mammamammon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:44pm
Excellent result. Patchell outstanding, Davies superb, Parkes class, Hill outstanding, Dee pushing to be first choice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2018 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

You can add Navidi at 7 to that list.
True. Taine Basham is my outsider to make the RWC squad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:18am
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Patchell needs a good run at 10 with the best players up front, inside and outside to see if he’s a viable option for the World Cup.
Our squad depth isn’t near Ireland, England or New Zealand but it’s improving, come World Cup our squad will likely be (assuming all are fit)
1) Rob / Wyn / Nicky Smith
2) Ken / Dee / Elias
3) Samson / Dillon / Francis
4) Ball / Beard
5) Alun Wyn / Seb Davies
6) Shingler / Moriarty
7) Warburton / Ellis Jenkins / Cubby
8) Faletau

9) Gar Davies / Tomos Williams / Rhodri Williams (?)
10) Patchell / Biggar
11) Steff / Josh Adams
12) Parkes / Watkin
13) Foxy / Scott
14) George / Amos
15) Halfpenny / Liam
 
You have left the golden child out?!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 10:48am
The selection gets pretty difficult because you are only allowed 31 players I think. The above list is 34 without ever presents like Cory Hill, Navidi & Tipuric!!!!Selection is all down to current form etc. Gatland is on record as saying he is going to take 9 front rowers, 4 2nd row & 5 back row. The players named above will of course provide most of those but Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Leon Brown & Ollie Griffiths will be knocking on the door. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The selection gets pretty difficult because you are only allowed 31 players I think. The above list is 34 without ever presents like Cory Hill, Navidi & Tipuric!!!!Selection is all down to current form etc. Gatland is on record as saying he is going to take 9 front rowers, 4 2nd row & 5 back row. The players named above will of course provide most of those but Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Leon Brown & Ollie Griffiths will be knocking on the door. 

You're right - I wonder why only 31? It seems to me that teams invariably have to send for reinforcements, when the inevitable injuries occur. Not very practical.

As has been widely discussed in the media, our back row is the main area of competition - we seem absurdly blessed with talent in that area. Gats has said himself that some very good players will likely miss out. He also said that if there was a world cup for 7s (meaning players whose position is 7, not seven-a-side), Wales would win it - fair comment, I think. 

Of those mentioned previously, I think Cory Hill is sure to go on present form. Seb Davies is promising, but will have to step up significantly to take his place. Beard took a big step forward on Saturday, as did Dillon Lewis. The squad is looking potentially stronger than before the tour.

Oh - and surely, Patchell is now the leading choice at 10?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The selection gets pretty difficult because you are only allowed 31 players I think. The above list is 34 without ever presents like Cory Hill, Navidi & Tipuric!!!!Selection is all down to current form etc. Gatland is on record as saying he is going to take 9 front rowers, 4 2nd row & 5 back row. The players named above will of course provide most of those but Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Leon Brown & Ollie Griffiths will be knocking on the door. 

You're right - I wonder why only 31? It seems to me that teams invariably have to send for reinforcements, when the inevitable injuries occur. Not very practical.

As has been widely discussed in the media, our back row is the main area of competition - we seem absurdly blessed with talent in that area. Gats has said himself that some very good players will likely miss out. He also said that if there was a world cup for 7s (meaning players whose position is 7, not seven-a-side), Wales would win it - fair comment, I think. 

Of those mentioned previously, I think Cory Hill is sure to go on present form. Seb Davies is promising, but will have to step up significantly to take his place. Beard took a big step forward on Saturday, as did Dillon Lewis. The squad is looking potentially stronger than before the tour.

Oh - and surely, Patchell is now the leading choice at 10?

What is stopping my confidence from rising too much is the habit that Gatland has of saying one thing & making selections which counter that. He has two huge calls to make - at 7 & 10. If he really does want to play a fast handling & offloading game then he must select players in those positions who complement that strategy. 

At 7 I think he will revert to a fit again Warburton - wrong decision in my opinion. Warburton, Navidi or Ellis Jenkins would not have been in the position that Cubby was in to score that try. Tipuric would have been but he wouldn't have had 3 priceless turnovers. Warburton should be considered as an out and out 6 who is very destructive. He can also be useful in the lineout & would complement Cubby at the breakdown. 

At 10 it is surely clear to everyone that Patchell is the man to get this backline firing. Frankly I don't rate Anscombe & would probably give young Evans a shot in  the Autumn. Biggar should only go as a last resort 3rd choice. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The selection gets pretty difficult because you are only allowed 31 players I think. The above list is 34 without ever presents like Cory Hill, Navidi & Tipuric!!!!Selection is all down to current form etc. Gatland is on record as saying he is going to take 9 front rowers, 4 2nd row & 5 back row. The players named above will of course provide most of those but Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Leon Brown & Ollie Griffiths will be knocking on the door. 

You're right - I wonder why only 31? It seems to me that teams invariably have to send for reinforcements, when the inevitable injuries occur. Not very practical.

As has been widely discussed in the media, our back row is the main area of competition - we seem absurdly blessed with talent in that area. Gats has said himself that some very good players will likely miss out. He also said that if there was a world cup for 7s (meaning players whose position is 7, not seven-a-side), Wales would win it - fair comment, I think. 

Of those mentioned previously, I think Cory Hill is sure to go on present form. Seb Davies is promising, but will have to step up significantly to take his place. Beard took a big step forward on Saturday, as did Dillon Lewis. The squad is looking potentially stronger than before the tour.

Oh - and surely, Patchell is now the leading choice at 10?

What is stopping my confidence from rising too much is the habit that Gatland has of saying one thing & making selections which counter that. He has two huge calls to make - at 7 & 10. If he really does want to play a fast handling & offloading game then he must select players in those positions who complement that strategy. 

At 7 I think he will revert to a fit again Warburton - wrong decision in my opinion. Warburton, Navidi or Ellis Jenkins would not have been in the position that Cubby was in to score that try. Tipuric would have been but he wouldn't have had 3 priceless turnovers. Warburton should be considered as an out and out 6 who is very destructive. He can also be useful in the lineout & would complement Cubby at the breakdown. 

At 10 it is surely clear to everyone that Patchell is the man to get this backline firing. Frankly I don't rate Anscombe & would probably give young Evans a shot in  the Autumn. Biggar should only go as a last resort 3rd choice. 
Wales should use Warburton in the same manner Australia use Pocock. But I think Sam is one of these players who you have to make an exception for. One of three genuine world class players we have in Wales IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The selection gets pretty difficult because you are only allowed 31 players I think. The above list is 34 without ever presents like Cory Hill, Navidi & Tipuric!!!!Selection is all down to current form etc. Gatland is on record as saying he is going to take 9 front rowers, 4 2nd row & 5 back row. The players named above will of course provide most of those but Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Bradley Davies, Leon Brown & Ollie Griffiths will be knocking on the door. 

You're right - I wonder why only 31? It seems to me that teams invariably have to send for reinforcements, when the inevitable injuries occur. Not very practical.

As has been widely discussed in the media, our back row is the main area of competition - we seem absurdly blessed with talent in that area. Gats has said himself that some very good players will likely miss out. He also said that if there was a world cup for 7s (meaning players whose position is 7, not seven-a-side), Wales would win it - fair comment, I think. 

Of those mentioned previously, I think Cory Hill is sure to go on present form. Seb Davies is promising, but will have to step up significantly to take his place. Beard took a big step forward on Saturday, as did Dillon Lewis. The squad is looking potentially stronger than before the tour.

Oh - and surely, Patchell is now the leading choice at 10?

What is stopping my confidence from rising too much is the habit that Gatland has of saying one thing & making selections which counter that. He has two huge calls to make - at 7 & 10. If he really does want to play a fast handling & offloading game then he must select players in those positions who complement that strategy. 

At 7 I think he will revert to a fit again Warburton - wrong decision in my opinion. Warburton, Navidi or Ellis Jenkins would not have been in the position that Cubby was in to score that try. Tipuric would have been but he wouldn't have had 3 priceless turnovers. Warburton should be considered as an out and out 6 who is very destructive. He can also be useful in the lineout & would complement Cubby at the breakdown. 

At 10 it is surely clear to everyone that Patchell is the man to get this backline firing. Frankly I don't rate Anscombe & would probably give young Evans a shot in  the Autumn. Biggar should only go as a last resort 3rd choice. 
Wales should use Warburton in the same manner Australia use Pocock. But I think Sam is one of these players who you have to make an exception for. One of three genuine world class players we have in Wales IMO

Sam is a fine player but i don't rate him that highly. You are right tho about Pocock. he is a real nuisance and carries well close to rucks allowing Hooper to cause mayhem in the wider channels. Sam & Cubby could play that combination. They certainly were too much for the Irish to handle at the breakdown last weekend. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2018 at 3:11pm
Wouldn't surprise me to see Patch at 15 for the 2nd Test in Santa Fe, with Anscombe given another run at 10, maybe switching roles on 55-60 mins.

If he's true to his word, he'll rotate a few for the final game to give everyone a chance to start. With a minimum of 2 wins out of 3, the tour will be seen as a success, so he'll see this as an opportunity to experiment further. Expect Aled, Ryan, Aaron Wainwright, Tomas Francis (if Samson not fit) and maybe Josh Turnbull to start, with Seb Davies in his real position in the second row perhaps?

With RWC19 in mind, Gats & Co should really be thinking about versatility in their tournament squad, as well as depth. Again, it's what Pivac has been doing with the wider Scarlets squad. and would seem to make sense for a competition where squad changes are limited during the tournament. It would also mean that a gameplan can be tweaked during a match, not that Cementhead has much previous form on changing tack. Ermm

That might ultimately count against a player like Cubby as an out-and-out open-side, although his cameos on the wing might stand him in good stead! Wink


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