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Wales team vs. S.Africa 02/06/18

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Ffidel Bennett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ffidel Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:10am
If the S. Africans hadn't changed their 10 in the last few minutes they would have won. Only our two captains, Moriarty and maybe Willams on the Welsh side came out with any credit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 8:30am
Well that wasn't very good was it!!! What can we deduce :-

1. Ellis Jenkins had a very good all round game;
2. Aled's position as no 2 for the World cup is in danger;
3. For someone who is 6 foot 4 North's ability in the air is poor;
4. This tour was being touted as an audition for the No 10 position with Anscombe identified as the coming man - well I have still seen nothing to suggest that this guy is a better player than Rhys;
5. Owen Watkin had a mare;
6. Rhodri is no tight head.

Can see Gatland calling Josh Adams into the squad this week as his back 3 cover is looking pretty thin. There will be a host of changes for next week and I sincerely hope that Rhys is fit enough to start at 10. My team would be :-

15. Amos 14. Prydie 13. Scott 12. Hadleigh 11. North 10. Rhys 9. Cawdor
8. Moriarty 7. Cubby 6. Jenkins 5. Hill 4. Bradley 3. Samson 2. Elias 1. Rob 

16. Dee 17. Wyn 18. Lewis 19. Seb 20. Wainwright 21. Tomos Williams 22. Anscombe 23. Adams
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 8:47am
I think most of our SF pundits called that right - a poor game between two poor teams, reffed by someone who had no clue in the scrums and made numerous mistakes. As one of you pointed out, the leadership seemed to come from Hadleigh more than anyone else - as for Jenkins, well... he mixed good and bad - got a couple of all important turnover penalties, but never seemed to inspire the troops and gave a couple of suicide passes in open play - Cubby he ain't!

The only player who seemed to advance his cause was Tom Williams - I'm not sure where the criticism of him comes from - he was tidy in his general play (passing, kicking), usually took sensible decisions and showed good strength for his try... his one major mistake was to ignore the ball at a ruck, allowing the Saffers to pinch it. Anscombe didn't do much, Watkin was terrible (what's happened to him? He used to look promising... O's coaching?), North was anonymous. Prydie did quite well when he had a chance. Amos looked dangerous in attack, but oh dear! That interception...

As for the forwards, both hookers did well apart from Dee missing a couple of lineouts... Elias was super alert for his try - well done, Ryan! The rest were pretty anonymous apart from one good burst by Moriarty. 

I don't know what the ref was thinking of in the scrums - I doubt a certain NO... frequently criticised on SF - would have tolerated the scrum shambles that ruined much of the first half, and the second as well come to that. It's odd how refs seem to pick and choose what they'll notice - he kept re-setting scrums, but totally ignored the 9s (especially SA) putting the ball right under his hooker's feet. Later on, OK I get that Rhodri is no TH prop, but the SA scrum were also walking it around pretty blatantly, and allowed to do so. 

At least once he did Wales a favour - before the first try, a SA player knocked on at the base of a ruck (this is pretty obvious) - the ref says 'he didn't touch it', doesn't blow up, Wales come round, pinch the ball and score! Well done that man! (Of course, it was 'advantage' anyway, but just as well he was asleep at the wheel, and didn't whistle...)

That game certainly won't win over many converts from American football... and where was the stadium? One side of it looked as if it backed onto a prison, or similar structure...? Not something to be repeated in the near future, I hope.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote s.pimpernel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 10:40am
Just forgetting the rugby for a minute, I thought Channel 4`s first attempt at rugby was atrocious. Eddie Butler just sounded pissed off all night and clearly didn`t want to be there, the women presenter was just another "job lot I can present anything" who had little to zero knowledge of the game unless it was written on her crib sheet and Shane spoke a lot of sense but was mostly ignored.

3/10 and I`m being generous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 10:46am
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Just forgetting the rugby for a minute, I thought Channel 4`s first attempt at rugby was atrocious. Eddie Butler just sounded pissed off all night and clearly didn`t want to be there, the women presenter was just another "job lot I can present anything" who had little to zero knowledge of the game unless it was written on her crib sheet and Shane spoke a lot of sense but was mostly ignored.

3/10 and I`m being generous.

Spot on with that assessment - about the same mark for the Welsh performance as well!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:01am
I’d stick with Dee, Hill, Seb, Jenkins, Moriarty, Williams, Watkin and Amos....
North to the wing.
Front row changes and Parkes and Patch in to the backs...put some more experience to the bench.

I see no virtue in playing these young guys for just 1 game...this is really a squad depth check for RWC ‘19.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:09am
FFS play seb at lock. After the WC it’s going to be him and Jake. Stop messing the boy around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theflier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I’d stick with Dee, Hill, Seb, Jenkins, Moriarty, Williams, Watkin and Amos....
North to the wing.
Front row changes and Parkes and Patch in to the backs...put some more experience to the bench.

I see no virtue in playing these young guys for just 1 game...this is really a squad depth check for RWC ‘19.



You'd stick with comfortably the worst 3 players on the pitch, watkin directly responsible for a 14 point swing?
Ay reason why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:00pm
Yep, otherwise I see little point in the tour. Seb and Watkin are just 21. They’ve got the talent. They will learn.

Watkin made 2 errors.

But he made 8 tackles and had the ball in his hands just 5 times. Not much of a chance to balance the books really.

The media narrative thee days is based on ‘ moments’ in a game...you can be bang average all game but make one eye catching line break and be the media’s darling and their MOTM. Or vice versa.



Edited by Wil Chips - 03 June 2018 at 12:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theflier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 12:51pm
One of watkins errors showed a lack of understanding of the fundamental laws of the game, and the other showed a lack of ability in one of the fundamental aspects of his position.

He couldnt balance the books(for which his chase from anscombe kick for the first try was great) because he cant be making those mistakes to begin with, as you've also said you'd drop other players for less,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by s.pimpernel s.pimpernel wrote:

Just forgetting the rugby for a minute, I thought Channel 4`s first attempt at rugby was atrocious. Eddie Butler just sounded pissed off all night and clearly didn`t want to be there, the women presenter was just another "job lot I can present anything" who had little to zero knowledge of the game unless it was written on her crib sheet and Shane spoke a lot of sense but was mostly ignored.

3/10 and I`m being generous.

Fair comment - and TBH I have no idea why they even bothered to pay Shane, as our lady presenter pretty much ignored him. The Saffer got loads of air time, and Ugo Monye got a big build up - something along the lines of "British and Irish Lions star"...

I don't know who that woman is, but for her information, the stats are as follows:

Shane Williams: 87 Wales caps and 290 points; 4 Lions caps and 10 points
Ugo Monye: 14 England caps and 10 points; 2 Lions caps and 5 points

It was really insulting the way Shane was sidelined - if I'd been in his position, I'd have walked out - but the guy is a real pro, unlike many others involved. It seemed as if Monye was given more of a build up and air time simply because he was English...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by theflier theflier wrote:

One of watkins errors showed a lack of understanding of the fundamental laws of the game, and the other showed a lack of ability in one of the fundamental aspects of his position.

He couldnt balance the books(for which his chase from anscombe kick for the first try was great) because he cant be making those mistakes to begin with, as you've also said you'd drop other players for less,

I rarely disagree with Wil, but on this occasion I have to come down on your side... Watkin seemed to think he was playing Rugby League when he blatantly batted the ball over the dead ball line - I think he could have caught it and grounded the ball ... his interception, too, was a poor decision though there it came as the end-point of several other poor plays, putting more and more pressure on the next player in line... but Watkin did seem to have a poor game overall, apart from those errors. He's looked to have talent in the past, but unless his form is better than what he showed yesterday, he should not be in the team v the Pumas. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 3:28pm
Glad you guys don’t get to decide on who gets a go in the show from Wales’ young talent!
Not many would make it!

Some examples...

Rob Evans...a walking penalty count and yellow card in his early days...ditto for Sanjay.


Do you seriously think that Watkin didn’t know the rules?
Or could it just be a lack of composure and the onset of panic in that situation?
Not unexpected from a guy in what, his 2nd start at age 21?

As an aside picking North along side him did him no favors at all. That’s the only thing I’d criticize.




Edited by Wil Chips - 03 June 2018 at 3:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 6:02pm
I'm not sure if Watkin simply didn't know the rules, or if he panicked - either way, it showed poor judgement, IMO. He surely could have caught that ball, if he'd tried. I don't think he did much right in the game, but he has done much better in the past, as I said. I don't really think North can be blamed for Watkin's poor display on this occasion, though.

As for the other two you mention - I always supported both of them. I always hope younger players come through, and he's no exception... except v Scarlets, of course!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2018 at 8:30pm
Not knowing the laws OR not containing Mr Woordward's infamous TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) is what separates the best from the rest, in my book. Earlier on today I saw Dane Blacker (Wales u20s 9) try to take a mark from a kickoff. I'd like to not be cynical enough to think that someone's whose job is to play rugby doesn't know the laws of the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2018 at 8:11am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I’d stick with Dee, Hill, Seb, Jenkins, Moriarty, Williams, Watkin and Amos....
North to the wing.
Front row changes and Parkes and Patch in to the backs...put some more experience to the bench.

I see no virtue in playing these young guys for just 1 game...this is really a squad depth check for RWC ‘19.



Agree with all your choices Wil except Watkin. It should be taken as read at this level that you can catch and give a pass with a two man overlap regardless of what position you play. He had a pretty awful game & should pay the penalty. Wales will be looking to beat Argentina so for me best side possible to play which means Scott & Hadleigh at centres. 
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