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Wales v Italy thread

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greypower1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 10:10am
Isn't Cawdor injured?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 10:13am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Isn't Cawdor injured?

He missed our game with Irish you will recall with tight groin I believe. Pivac said if Saturday had been World Cup final he would have played so hoping he is fit for Dublin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:37am
I haven't seen the game back yet, so these impressions are based purely on what I saw at the stadium - so may be changed when the evidence has been perused more carefully!

It was a funny game - Wales were excellent at times, and scrappy at others. The ref didn't help, IMO - after about 30 min, he seemed to take pity on the Italians and gave them a lot of 50:50 calls, plus a lot of leeway at the breakdown, where their tactic seemed to be to flop on top of the man on the ground, getting in the 9's way... Webb was also taken out at one ruck - 'play on'! (I would not have picked Webb in the squad, and he didn't impress - but I'm a bit more sympathetic to what he had to put up with than some of you!)

One thing Wales did really well was to take the Italian kicking game away from the completely - often lining up with Halfpenny near one touchline, and Biggar near the other - then, if the kick came, the ball was very often shipped across field to the other touchline. It reminded me of how the Scarlets destroyed Munster in that final... Of course, the Irish will have seen that - and their kickers are much better. We'll see how that duel pans out.

As for individuals - like many of you, I was baffled by Tipuric as MoM - Adams and Halfpenny were far more deserving. Parkes was really solid, and put in some great kicks after fielding their kick-offs. Biggar had a very good day - loved that cheeky between-the-legs pass, which wrong-footed the defender. Tomos Williams and McNicholl were pretty good overall, and Tompkins was electric when he came on - a must-start next week, for me anyway.

North had an OK game, but looked what he was - a winger out of position - we were lucky once, when he shot out of the defensive line and got nowhere near the ball carrier - a better team would have got a try after that. Wales's scramble defence was excellent, and needed to be, at times.

In the forwards, I could not tell if the ref's scrum calls were right - I'll look at the tape. Ireland's scrum, too, struggled - and they seemed to have a couple of prop injuries, so they may not be as strong there as usual. The boys did OK, but need to be more accurate in the scrums and line-outs. No-one really stood out... Faletau seemed to ease his way back - nothing special, but no mistakes. 

Warburton's influence was easy to see at the breakdown, where Wales won a number of penalties and turnovers - he has emphasised the importance of picking your moment, and which balls to go faor, apparently - backs as well as forwards did well, including an early win by Tompkins after he came on briefly.

So, on what I've seen so far, I'd pick this team for Ireland:

15 Halfpenny
14 North (assuming Sanjay still out)
13 Tompkins
12 Parkes
11 Adams
10 Biggar
9 Cawdor ( we know that Sexton can be rattled, and don't want him controlling the game)

8 Faletau (too good to leave out - he'll get more influential as his match fitness improves)
7 Tipuric
6 Shingler (lineout needs his skills)
5 AWJ
4 Ball
3 WillGriff John (need our best scrummager, if fit)
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

16 Elias or Dee
17 Rob Evans
18 Lewis or Brown
19 Hill
20 Wainwright (I understand Navidi has a hamstring injury and is not likely to be fit)
21 Tomos W
22 Jarrod Evans
23 Jonny Mac (covers back 3... North to centre again if needed)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:39am
The irish props are their biggest strength and perhaps our biggest weakness atm
Big miss not getting to try out will griff for the italy match..I didnt realise he had a niggle....Ive not seen much of him, hes a massive bugger though with a lot of club experience...It just seems a bit sketchy to give him is test debut in the dublin cauldron ..But debutants have had stormers in the past so maybe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:42am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The irish props are their biggest strength and perhaps our biggest weakness atm
Big miss not getting to try out will griff for the italy match..I didnt realise he had a niggle....Ive not seen much of him, hes a massive bugger though with a lot of club experience...It just seems a bit sketchy to give him is test debut in the dublin cauldron ..But debutants have had stormers in the past so maybe?

They didn't go well against the Scots, and also at least two of them picked up injuries - how serious, I don't know. The Irish scrum may not be at its best next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:46am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I haven't seen the game back yet, so these impressions are based purely on what I saw at the stadium - so may be changed when the evidence has been perused more carefully!

It was a funny game - Wales were excellent at times, and scrappy at others. The ref didn't help, IMO - after about 30 min, he seemed to take pity on the Italians and gave them a lot of 50:50 calls, plus a lot of leeway at the breakdown, where their tactic seemed to be to flop on top of the man on the ground, getting in the 9's way... Webb was also taken out at one ruck - 'play on'! (I would not have picked Webb in the squad, and he didn't impress - but I'm a bit more sympathetic to what he had to put up with than some of you!)

One thing Wales did really well was to take the Italian kicking game away from the completely - often lining up with Halfpenny near one touchline, and Biggar near the other - then, if the kick came, the ball was very often shipped across field to the other touchline. It reminded me of how the Scarlets destroyed Munster in that final... Of course, the Irish will have seen that - and their kickers are much better. We'll see how that duel pans out.

As for individuals - like many of you, I was baffled by Tipuric as MoM - Adams and Halfpenny were far more deserving. Parkes was really solid, and put in some great kicks after fielding their kick-offs. Biggar had a very good day - loved that cheeky between-the-legs pass, which wrong-footed the defender. Tomos Williams and McNicholl were pretty good overall, and Tompkins was electric when he came on - a must-start next week, for me anyway.

North had an OK game, but looked what he was - a winger out of position - we were lucky once, when he shot out of the defensive line and got nowhere near the ball carrier - a better team would have got a try after that. Wales's scramble defence was excellent, and needed to be, at times.

In the forwards, I could not tell if the ref's scrum calls were right - I'll look at the tape. Ireland's scrum, too, struggled - and they seemed to have a couple of prop injuries, so they may not be as strong there as usual. The boys did OK, but need to be more accurate in the scrums and line-outs. No-one really stood out... Faletau seemed to ease his way back - nothing special, but no mistakes. 

Warburton's influence was easy to see at the breakdown, where Wales won a number of penalties and turnovers - he has emphasised the importance of picking your moment, and which balls to go faor, apparently - backs as well as forwards did well, including an early win by Tompkins after he came on briefly.

So, on what I've seen so far, I'd pick this team for Ireland:

15 Halfpenny
14 North (assuming Sanjay still out)
13 Tompkins
12 Parkes
11 Adams
10 Biggar
9 Cawdor ( we know that Sexton can be rattled, and don't want him controlling the game)

8 Faletau (too good to leave out - he'll get more influential as his match fitness improves)
7 Tipuric
6 Shingler (lineout needs his skills)
5 AWJ
4 Ball
3 WillGriff John (need our best scrummager, if fit)
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

16 Elias or Dee
17 Rob Evans
18 Lewis or Brown
19 Hill
20 Wainwright (I understand Navidi has a hamstring injury and is not likely to be fit)
21 Tomos W
22 Jarrod Evans
23 Jonny Mac (covers back 3... North to centre again if needed)

Excellent summary Aber. I would 100% go with your starting 15 - one suggestion about the bench is that Carre is now available and the threat posed by Carre, Elias & Brown on a tiring set of forwards is immense. They are big carriers who can make an impact. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:48am
There were a at least 4 tried left out there ...tomos williams missed out on 3 altogether one knocked on, one out chased and a third a halfpenny knock on after about 10 minutes...north had another cancelled from an earlier knock on by tompkins
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:55am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The irish props are their biggest strength and perhaps our biggest weakness atm
Big miss not getting to try out will griff for the italy match..I didnt realise he had a niggle....Ive not seen much of him, hes a massive bugger though with a lot of club experience...It just seems a bit sketchy to give him is test debut in the dublin cauldron ..But debutants have had stormers in the past so maybe?

They didn't go well against the Scots, and also at least two of them picked up injuries - how serious, I don't know. The Irish scrum may not be at its best next week.

Hope so , if we can neutralise their scrum it makes a big difference. Ireland are similar to england in the way they like to try and bully sides. But take away the set scrum. what else do they have? A dominant lineout, catch and drives a physical back row and a limited backline. I think our back row has more balance our back line has way more threats too. The second row partner of awj is crucial. Will it be ball or cory hill or adam beard. beard is a handy guy in the mauls , similar to charteris with his telescopic arms.
I dont think shingler has shown enough form tbh...I see the only changes as cawdor , willgriff to the bench and possibly tompkins to 13 north to the wing. the bench may see liam or watkin if fit, if not then johnny mac on the bench



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 11:56am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I haven't seen the game back yet, so these impressions are based purely on what I saw at the stadium - so may be changed when the evidence has been perused more carefully!

It was a funny game - Wales were excellent at times, and scrappy at others. The ref didn't help, IMO - after about 30 min, he seemed to take pity on the Italians and gave them a lot of 50:50 calls, plus a lot of leeway at the breakdown, where their tactic seemed to be to flop on top of the man on the ground, getting in the 9's way... Webb was also taken out at one ruck - 'play on'! (I would not have picked Webb in the squad, and he didn't impress - but I'm a bit more sympathetic to what he had to put up with than some of you!)

One thing Wales did really well was to take the Italian kicking game away from the completely - often lining up with Halfpenny near one touchline, and Biggar near the other - then, if the kick came, the ball was very often shipped across field to the other touchline. It reminded me of how the Scarlets destroyed Munster in that final... Of course, the Irish will have seen that - and their kickers are much better. We'll see how that duel pans out.

As for individuals - like many of you, I was baffled by Tipuric as MoM - Adams and Halfpenny were far more deserving. Parkes was really solid, and put in some great kicks after fielding their kick-offs. Biggar had a very good day - loved that cheeky between-the-legs pass, which wrong-footed the defender. Tomos Williams and McNicholl were pretty good overall, and Tompkins was electric when he came on - a must-start next week, for me anyway.

North had an OK game, but looked what he was - a winger out of position - we were lucky once, when he shot out of the defensive line and got nowhere near the ball carrier - a better team would have got a try after that. Wales's scramble defence was excellent, and needed to be, at times.

In the forwards, I could not tell if the ref's scrum calls were right - I'll look at the tape. Ireland's scrum, too, struggled - and they seemed to have a couple of prop injuries, so they may not be as strong there as usual. The boys did OK, but need to be more accurate in the scrums and line-outs. No-one really stood out... Faletau seemed to ease his way back - nothing special, but no mistakes. 

Warburton's influence was easy to see at the breakdown, where Wales won a number of penalties and turnovers - he has emphasised the importance of picking your moment, and which balls to go faor, apparently - backs as well as forwards did well, including an early win by Tompkins after he came on briefly.

So, on what I've seen so far, I'd pick this team for Ireland:

15 Halfpenny
14 North (assuming Sanjay still out)
13 Tompkins
12 Parkes
11 Adams
10 Biggar
9 Cawdor ( we know that Sexton can be rattled, and don't want him controlling the game)

8 Faletau (too good to leave out - he'll get more influential as his match fitness improves)
7 Tipuric
6 Shingler (lineout needs his skills)
5 AWJ
4 Ball
3 WillGriff John (need our best scrummager, if fit)
2 Ken
1 Wyn Jones

16 Elias or Dee
17 Rob Evans
18 Lewis or Brown
19 Hill
20 Wainwright (I understand Navidi has a hamstring injury and is not likely to be fit)
21 Tomos W
22 Jarrod Evans
23 Jonny Mac (covers back 3... North to centre again if needed)

Excellent summary Aber. I would 100% go with your starting 15 - one suggestion about the bench is that Carre is now available and the threat posed by Carre, Elias & Brown on a tiring set of forwards is immense. They are big carriers who can make an impact. 

Thanks - I didn't know what the state of play was with Carre. He could be useful v Ireland, for sure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:03pm
ooo carre available forgot about that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The irish props are their biggest strength and perhaps our biggest weakness atm
Big miss not getting to try out will griff for the italy match..I didnt realise he had a niggle....Ive not seen much of him, hes a massive bugger though with a lot of club experience...It just seems a bit sketchy to give him is test debut in the dublin cauldron ..But debutants have had stormers in the past so maybe?

They didn't go well against the Scots, and also at least two of them picked up injuries - how serious, I don't know. The Irish scrum may not be at its best next week.

Hope so , if we can neutralise their scrum it makes a big difference. Ireland are similar to england in the way they like to try and bully sides. But take away the set scrum. what else do they have? A dominant lineout, catch and drives a physical back row and a limited backline. I think our back row has more balance our back line has way more threats too. The second row partner of awj is crucial. Will it be ball or cory hill or adam beard. beard is a handy guy in the mauls , similar to charteris with his telescopic arms.
I dont think shingler has shown enough form tbh...I see the only changes as cawdor , willgriff to the bench and possibly tompkins to 13 north to the wing. the bench may see liam or watkin if fit, if not then johnny mac on the bench




Healy, Herring & Furlong will give us a stern test. Dillon has never convinced me yet that he is good enough to start, Brown is coming along but WGJ is surely the guy to start - he has the physique and scars to prove it from a number of years being competitive in the Premiership. Ball for me is important to the way Pivac wants to play - he is a real enforcer at the breakdown/clearance & is ahead of Beard at the moment. Hill adds huge energy & nous off the bench. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:33pm
would you pick carre and wgj in the squad? bench ? starting team?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noobyy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:37pm
Considering Lewis was pinged twice and wyn 4 times, surely it's more of a case of who plays LH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by noobyy noobyy wrote:

Considering Lewis was pinged twice and wyn 4 times, surely it's more of a case of who plays LH

Wyn has some credit in the bank I think. I would start Wyn, Ken & WGJ with Carre, Ryan & Brown on the bench. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by noobyy noobyy wrote:

Considering Lewis was pinged twice and wyn 4 times, surely it's more of a case of who plays LH

Wyn has some credit in the bank I think. I would start Wyn, Ken & WGJ with Carre, Ryan & Brown on the bench. 

Thats some serious beefLOL carre and wgf are both about 23 stones and 6 foot 3 and respected scrummagers



Edited by roy munster - 03 February 2020 at 12:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noobyy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2020 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by noobyy noobyy wrote:

Considering Lewis was pinged twice and wyn 4 times, surely it's more of a case of who plays LH

Wyn has some credit in the bank I think. I would start Wyn, Ken & WGJ with Carre, Ryan & Brown on the bench. 
Maybe, but Lewis gave 2 pens and won 2 at turnover. He doesn't deserve to be dropped, no other TH we have gives us that loose play
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