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Wales v South Africa Semi Final Thread

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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 11:25am
Why thank you, I'm feeling the same way as you I think, it was a great opportunity to go all the way and I'm not sure we'll get a better one. England, NZ, SA and even France are looking like they're ready to go up a notch over the next few years and I hope we can stay there or thereabouts.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Why thank you, I'm feeling the same way as you I think, it was a great opportunity to go all the way and I'm not sure we'll get a better one. England, NZ, SA and even France are looking like they're ready to go up a notch over the next few years and I hope we can stay there or thereabouts.
 

Yes, you just said it miles better! I also wonder if we could have developed some other options over the last 4 years as we relied so heavily on the defensive grind/turnover/penalty game which ultimately came up against a team better at doing it than us yesterday. We know for ages tries have been hard to find and we over-rely upon players like Cawdor to provide unexpected breaks. It's just never been enough to beat "good" SA and NZ, and we lost too many times to Australia, and as you say you have to do this to win a WC. I think when I watched the England game I was thinking "Wow. We could never do this.", which hurts even more this morning. But we have those 6N Grand Slams, had a record winning streak, and have had our most successful decade ever. To someone who had stories of the 70s hanging over those endless losses of the 90s and early 00s it has been a golden age. Just need to make it platinum now so lets hope Pivac and Stevo can do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Why thank you, I'm feeling the same way as you I think, it was a great opportunity to go all the way and I'm not sure we'll get a better one. England, NZ, SA and even France are looking like they're ready to go up a notch over the next few years and I hope we can stay there or thereabouts.
 

I think most of us feel that we've missed our best chance yet of winning this title. Pivac needs to be bold. Stalwarts like North need to be put under selection pressures. We can't blame Gatland for the fact that Amos when given his opportunity blew it spectacularly. The management have already intimated that they were looking at replacing George so he needs to clear his head, rest and improve. He need look no further than Jonny May who has improved immeasurably under Eddie Jones. 

If Lane is being looked at as Foxy's eventual successor then the Blues need to start playing him at 13. They have no excuses with Adams & Amos in their ranks. Of course recent under 20's stars will begin to throw their hats into the ring over the next couple of years - guys like Lake, Reffell, Dan Davis etc. Getting and keeping Faletau fit would be a huge benefit to Pivac who could well be the guy to take over the captaincy reigns from AWJ; if not then Ellis Jenkins is well placed. Interesting times indeed. As for the coaching team Humphries is a very good appointment & surely it is time Adam Jones was brought back to Wales to share his experiences with Welsh tight heads & not making Sinckler into a World beater!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 11:53am
I can't help but think that the French match took a heck of a lot out of us.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfing-mtber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 11:57am
We're Welsh, we're bound to be downhearted.  Extreme passion and some inevitable troughs are part of our life experience.  No matter how disappointed we all are on a Monday morning, spare a thought for one of our own, Foxy.  Watch this painful interview: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/50201163

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I can't help but think that the French match took a heck of a lot out of us.


Fiji as well. Another possible difference between us and Eng/NZ/SA is those sort of games take a little less out of them while we had to work a bit harder?

Yes, that interview with Foxy is heartbreaking. He's right, going from punching above our weight to expecting to getting to the semi-final and compete at the highest level is an achievement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by surfing-mtber surfing-mtber wrote:

We're Welsh, we're bound to be downhearted.  Extreme passion and some inevitable troughs are part of our life experience.  No matter how disappointed we all are on a Monday morning, spare a thought for one of our own, Foxy.  Watch this painful interview: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/50201163


Yes it was a painful watch. Foxy realises that he will never win the ultimate prize. He has done most things in his career with the highlight for me being his man of the series against NZ for the Lions. He fronted up when probably nobody wanted to go in front of the camera and his face said it all. They can all hold their heads high as not even us Welsh supporters can find any real reason for criticism. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 2:04pm
people calling for a different game plan need to realise we were missing our best attacker liam . We had two half fit centres had a centre on the wing and had arguably our first choice 8 9 and 10 out. If we had all those fit i think we’d open up a lot more. Gats is a great coach his cv proves that lions series wins grand slams european cups etc. Short term we are fine tbh chuck in hallolo jonny mac anscombe into that back line rob evans hill toby f and ellis into the pack we will be a lot stronger if anything. Its when guys like foxy alun wyn and ken step down in 2 years it could get messy.  Dee beard and co have huge boots to fill. The wru need to work with regions to ensure that regions get proper funding and that we dont see the likes of dillon lewis sat on the bench while arhip starts. I think the likes of tupric and biggar will be phased out come 6 nations time and certainly by summer tour

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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 2:34pm
No-one forced Gatland to play guys who weren't fully fit, or on form, and even if Sanjay played Wales' wouldn't have been any more expansive.
Gatland is a great coach, no-one is questioning that, just a case of what could Wales have done differently, he'll be asking himself that question so don't see why we wouldn't.
I hope that sentiment doesn't get too much in the way of development in the Barbarians game and it doesn't end up basically being a Wales select v Wales because everyone wants to play for Gatland. Pivac has got a job to do and it's his only hit out before the 6 nations, plus selfishly the regions have got games to play too and don't want to be missing 30/40 players for an exhibition game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

No-one forced Gatland to play guys who weren't fully fit, or on form, and even if Sanjay played Wales' wouldn't have been any more expansive.
Gatland is a great coach, no-one is questioning that, just a case of what could Wales have done differently, he'll be asking himself that question so don't see why we wouldn't.
I hope that sentiment doesn't get too much in the way of development in the Barbarians game and it doesn't end up basically being a Wales select v Wales because everyone wants to play for Gatland. Pivac has got a job to do and it's his only hit out before the 6 nations, plus selfishly the regions have got games to play too and don't want to be missing 30/40 players for an exhibition game.
Personally can’t see any of the first choicers during the rwc play that game. Have a feeling it will be any player Pivac wants to have a look at before deciding how much of a part they’ll play during the Six Nations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

people calling for a different game plan need to realise we were missing our best attacker liam . We had two half fit centres had a centre on the wing and had arguably our first choice 8 9 and 10 out. If we had all those fit i think we’d open up a lot more. Gats is a great coach his cv proves that lions series wins grand slams european cups etc. Short term we are fine tbh chuck in hallolo jonny mac anscombe into that back line rob evans hill toby f and ellis into the pack we will be a lot stronger if anything. Its when guys like foxy alun wyn and ken step down in 2 years it could get messy.  Dee beard and co have huge boots to fill. The wru need to work with regions to ensure that regions get proper funding and that we dont see the likes of dillon lewis sat on the bench while arhip starts. I think the likes of tupric and biggar will be phased out come 6 nations time and certainly by summer tour

Yes, over-reliance on individual breaks from key players for 5 points as our tactics - I gave Cawdor as the example but you're right Liam is the main other one, Adams as well but he's out on the wing. One of them was out, the other had a bad day. So we were very limited. Let's not say that we didn't do well or that Gatland hasn't done a hell of a job - because we gave it our all and he really has. To be in the position where we're disappointed at "only" getting to the semi-final is massive progress which I am eternally grateful for, but to get so close and yet fall agonisingly short against such a limited opposition game plan is hard to take. I feel it's only natural to wonder if we could have done anything different on the day, or players and tactics that could have been developed, or how to approach things for next time. You're completely right those injuries were a big deal as well, no getting around that. We were looking at close to bare bones, for example the scrum penalty that ending up finishing it. But we have been discussing Wales' lack of attacking threat, particularly the lack of try scoring potency against any decent defence, for several years now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2019 at 3:09pm
Gatland and his team did a great job, giving Wales a decade and more of success in the 6N. We could certainly have done better v the SH teams, though often the AIs weren't taken all that seriously IMO - they are money-spinners for the WRU, but an opportunity for the coaches to try different things and players, with less pressure on than for the tournaments. And we did have an excellent recent record v SA, until Sunday.

As for selection - I don't see what else they could have done in the circumstances, though I do question the wisdom of picking Biggar after those head knocks - he hasn't played well since, though TBF he kicked his goals. I'd have either started Patch, or at least sent him on much earlier. No other real moans about the whole thing, though - we tried our best and came up just short.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2019 at 6:01am
robin mcbryde at the press conference about the all blacks game "I just hope the players go out there and express themselves" pity he hadn't told them that before the south Africa game,my English friend text me last night after watching our game and he said "why did you play the game at such a slow pace"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2019 at 9:05am
What does "express themselves" even mean in team sport? I dislike the phrase due to the ambiguity and overuse (always a dodgy combination) and assume it means be yourself, play your natural game and the like. Coming from a coach, I usually interpret it as "play better and make something happen". It's strange coming from such a heavily coached uninventive side as Wales.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2019 at 9:40am
No side with Cawdor, Patchell, Foxy, Liam & Tipuric should be uninventive. Gatland has been hugely influential in bettering this team but I can't help feeling he has missed a trick. Surely we have as many creative players as England. His distrust of players like Anscombe &, for me, our best option still at 10 Rhys has led to a conservative approach. 

The 10/12 axis along with the breakdown have become two absolutely key components of the modern game. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2019 at 9:46am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

No side with Cawdor, Patchell, Foxy, Liam & Tipuric should be uninventive. Gatland has been hugely influential in bettering this team but I can't help feeling he has missed a trick. Surely we have as many creative players as England. His distrust of players like Anscombe &, for me, our best option still at 10 Rhys has led to a conservative approach. 

The 10/12 axis along with the breakdown have become two absolutely key components of the modern game. 
agree gareth that gatland has improved us as a team but go back 2 years to the autumn series when the likes of peter Jackson were on scrum v crying out how few players they had used with a view of the world cup,a lot of the players who have come through and shone such as wainwright and josh adams were only given chances due to injuries,how many more unearthed gems have missed the boat for this world cup?
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
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