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Welsh derbies

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Why View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 5:36am
Not all is a bed of roses over the border huge debts most of clubs struggling for crowds even Saracens can only get 10,000 at their home ground. They get good money from TV but if we got into there league how much would we get and would it be sustainable without the huge backing most of their sides get from personal investment.
At the moment with the side we have we would be competitive but if we played in that league it would be easier for the rich boys to pick of our best talent with bigger pay packets. I would love nothing more than to play the English sides every week and the true English rugby fan would want the same but unfortunately we don't have the money or the local population to compete without a very rich sugar daddy to underwrite debt.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 6:39am
This would mean that Judgement Day happens once every other year only  Would the additional £500k - £800k per year compensate for the loss of revenue to the Blues and Dragons who must make something of this order on JD.

Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 17 July 2017 at 6:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 7:39am
Originally posted by Tumblescarlet67 Tumblescarlet67 wrote:

After reading all the comments on this topic it seems to me that some people really don't understand what all this is all about . It is not about the quality of the Pro 12   It is all about the finances , the survival of the league and its clubs .
All 4 Welsh regions are losing £1m due to the loss of the BT deal . All the Irish provinces are making losses , in fact the IRFU have told their provinces the present funding arrangements are in the long term unaffordable.
The English prem as recent as this morning have stated that they have no intention of adding anybody to their league after seeing what it has done to Super rugby , do there is no possibility in the near future of any type of British / Irish league .
So the bottom line is the Pro 12 hierarchy have had to look for income from somewhere else , this is not getting done on a whim , this is getting done on financial necessity and the sooner some wake up to that realisation the better .
Myself I am in the wait and see group of fans , I'm not happy , but what can o do ?, what can the Scarlets do ?,
All our hands are tied .

Put Llanelli Rugby Football Club into the English system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bynea_bullet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:00pm
I renewed my season ticket based on 11 home Pro12 games.
 
It will be interesting to see how many games this new look league will give us at home if it splits into 2 conferences.
 
Still a lot to be sorted out though. Personally I'd go for a 14 team league and wave goodbye to the LV Cup.
 
But thats just me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:13pm
I'd prefer a straight 14 team league, all home and away. That would mean ditching the AW, and probably forming a Celtic A league with the Irish and Scots in order to provide a step up from the PP. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

I'd prefer a straight 14 team league, all home and away. That would mean ditching the AW, and probably forming a Celtic A league with the Irish and Scots in order to provide a step up from the PP. 

Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

I'd prefer a straight 14 team league, all home and away. That would mean ditching the AW, and probably forming a Celtic A league with the Irish and Scots in order to provide a step up from the PP. 

Agreed.

We won't get it though. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 3:31pm
Ditching another cross border competition we have with the English is not sensible. That competition is a good link and could be a valuable bargaining chip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PritchyTheScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Not all is a bed of roses over the border huge debts most of clubs struggling for crowds even Saracens can only get 10,000 at their home ground. They get good money from TV but if we got into there league how much would we get and would it be sustainable without the huge backing most of their sides get from personal investment.
At the moment with the side we have we would be competitive but if we played in that league it would be easier for the rich boys to pick of our best talent with bigger pay packets. I would love nothing more than to play the English sides every week and the true English rugby fan would want the same but unfortunately we don't have the money or the local population to compete without a very rich sugar daddy to underwrite debt.

Which clubs in the Premiership are struggling for crowds? Also, Saracens' capacity is 10,000, so they're filling their ground most games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 4:01pm
Potential could be for a PRW Cup during the International windows - developmental squads, of course, but there'd be 2 more home derbies in the season.

Or, moving away from derbies, how about... Welsh-Anglo Cup will be used as a second competition to include the SA teams - a revised (but still developmental) tournament with a key point of difference for English clubs and (significantly) greater scope for revenue due to TV potential in SA. As well as playing in Pro14, Cheetahs & Kings will also get fixtures (albeit prob only Away games at Welsh/English grounds) against England's top clubs, so easy for them to sell concept to SuperSports TV.

WIIFM?
Eng clubs - refreshed 2nd string competition including exotic new African teams*
SA - chance to play and televise* matches against top English clubs
Welsh pro teams - greater variety of opposition for development of squad, kudos for having facilitated new audiences/opposition*
*more 'ker-CHING!' for all parties

18 is an awkward number of clubs to work with, mind, assuming the 'pool' stages still have to be worked into 4 weekends - maybe bring in the Scots too, as SRU were most averse to Pro14 expansion with conferences? Could also then be a step closer to B&I league...

Still not sure if this is a can of worms or a can of peaches, but all parties will need a can-do attitude to make it work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 5:04pm
Home games will be:
6 home games in our conference including Cardiff home (and away)
3 or 4 home games against conference B including for example Drags home, Ospreys Away 
1 extra home derby against Osps

So 10 or 11 home games, maximum one less than we get now. 
For a 50% increase in competition income and possibly a 9 day excursion to SA if we play both teams away. (We may only play the SA team in conference B at home)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 7:49pm
I thought the SA teams would play a majority of their games in Saracens.

I feel there has to be a lot discussions over the next 7 days before everything is sorted out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 8:03pm
Could be a bigger mess than Brexit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 8:05pm
[QUOTE=PritchyTheScarlet] [QUOTE=Why]Not all is a bed of roses over the border huge debts most of clubs struggling for crowds even Saracens can only get 10,000 at their home ground. They get good money from TV but if we got into there league how much would we get and would it be sustainable without the huge backing most of their sides get from personal investment.
At the moment with the side we have we would be competitive but if we played in that league it would be easier for the rich boys to pick of our best talent with bigger pay packets. I would love nothing more than to play the English sides every week and the true English rugby fan would want the same but unfortunately we don't have the money or the local population to compete without a very rich sugar daddy to underwrite debt.
[/
Which clubs in the Premiership are struggling for crowds? Also, Saracens' capacity is 10,000, so they're filling their ground most game
L Irish Newcastle sale Worcester quins and wasps when they don't gives thousands away to schools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Home games will be:
6 home games in our conference including Cardiff home (and away)
3 or 4 home games against conference B including for example Drags home, Ospreys Away 
1 extra home derby against Osps

So 10 or 11 home games, maximum one less than we get now. 
For a 50% increase in competition income and possibly a 9 day excursion to SA if we play both teams away. (We may only play the SA team in conference B at home)



I really don't like this idea. I don't know the ins and outs, but from what I've read the following situation could play out.

We are placed in the same conference as the Blues. We each play every team in our conference home and away, then play the teams in the other conference once. Let's say after these results are in we are tied on points etc. Our extra game would be against Ospreys, but that would mean that Blues extra game is against Dragons - which is a much easier prospect. Blues could then finish above us purely because they've had an extra game against a weaker side.

Surely, a league cannot be fair unless everyone is playing the same teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2017 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by PritchyTheScarlet PritchyTheScarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Not all is a bed of roses over the border huge debts most of clubs struggling for crowds even Saracens can only get 10,000 at their home ground. They get good money from TV but if we got into there league how much would we get and would it be sustainable without the huge backing most of their sides get from personal investment.
At the moment with the side we have we would be competitive but if we played in that league it would be easier for the rich boys to pick of our best talent with bigger pay packets. I would love nothing more than to play the English sides every week and the true English rugby fan would want the same but unfortunately we don't have the money or the local population to compete without a very rich sugar daddy to underwrite debt.


Which clubs in the Premiership are struggling for crowds? Also, Saracens' capacity is 10,000, so they're filling their ground most games.

Most of the big clubs used to sell out week in week out not the case anymore most of the clubs losing money because of huge wage packets. The Pro 12 is knocked constantly but there has been improvement in quality over last five years and a far more open competition than Prem where only 1 of three maybe 4 teams are going to win it.
Saracens should be selling out a 10,000 capacity stadium bearing in mind location no other top class team for miles in a city of 8 million and their recent success.
If the SA teams were replacing the two Italian teams who have offered nothing to table since joining then I would be happier.
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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