Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > SCARLETS GENERAL
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Will we see players and coaches furlowed

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
Dr. Optimist

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 12741
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

25% pay cut when your still on over 100k and in some cases 200k a year isn’t that bad. Players should be able to live with that. Furlough could mean a 20% pay cut for staff, its really up to the Scarlets they will only recieve 80% of the ‘normal wage’ up to that £2500 cap for each furloughed employee. 

The staff could be paid 80%. If your working in the Scarlets shop on close to the minimum wage or your the club sous chef etc thats going to hurt. 
.......or they could be paid 100%?    

Whichever way you look at it, the 25% pay cut means that the players are still being hit relatively harder than any other member of staff. 


That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
EJPT View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 14 February 2012
Location: Berkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

25% pay cut when your still on over 100k and in some cases 200k a year isn’t that bad. Players should be able to live with that. Furlough could mean a 20% pay cut for staff, its really up to the Scarlets they will only recieve 80% of the ‘normal wage’ up to that £2500 cap for each furloughed employee. 

The staff could be paid 80%. If your working in the Scarlets shop on close to the minimum wage or your the club sous chef etc thats going to hurt. 
.......or they could be paid 100%?    

Whichever way you look at it, the 25% pay cut means that the players are still being hit relatively harder than any other member of staff. 



They could be. I do not agree with the relative point however. It’s not really relative when one persons earning just above minimum wage and the other earns 10x what they earn even with a pay cut, who still has more disposable income? 
Hopefully The pay cut to the players would probably cover those staff on the lower incomes wage in its entirety. 
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

25% pay cut when your still on over 100k and in some cases 200k a year isn’t that bad. Players should be able to live with that. Furlough could mean a 20% pay cut for staff, its really up to the Scarlets they will only recieve 80% of the ‘normal wage’ up to that £2500 cap for each furloughed employee. 

The staff could be paid 80%. If your working in the Scarlets shop on close to the minimum wage or your the club sous chef etc thats going to hurt. 
.......or they could be paid 100%?    

Whichever way you look at it, the 25% pay cut means that the players are still being hit relatively harder than any other member of staff. 


 
 
what you would rather have 75% of £250.000 k or 100% of £15,000
 
whichever you look at it the players with the bigger salary's are still miles better off than any other member of staff
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 43325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 2:02pm
It's not a source of wonder nor amazement that one person earns more than another when doing a range of different jobs with different skills and rewards.

I'm unsure what it's got to do with Scarlets rugby though.

All I can see from this thread is simmering bitterness and resentment … and an unnamed source.

What's the value add in this dialogue?


Edited by Wil Chips - 20 April 2020 at 2:04pm
Back to Top
reesytheexile View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 11 August 2012
Location: Machynys
Status: Offline
Points: 13705
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 2:18pm
Tbf I agree in that nearly all posts involving money / income and relative wealth tends to turn into moral outrage and finger pointing about “ them” cashing in whilst I still live in  a shoebox ( Monty Python credit there 😉) and live on sixpence! It never ends in unity and usually one or two fall out ... best avoided imo 

Edited by reesytheexile - 20 April 2020 at 2:18pm
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
Back to Top
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
Dr. Optimist

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 12741
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

25% pay cut when your still on over 100k and in some cases 200k a year isn’t that bad. Players should be able to live with that. Furlough could mean a 20% pay cut for staff, its really up to the Scarlets they will only recieve 80% of the ‘normal wage’ up to that £2500 cap for each furloughed employee. 

The staff could be paid 80%. If your working in the Scarlets shop on close to the minimum wage or your the club sous chef etc thats going to hurt. 
.......or they could be paid 100%?    

Whichever way you look at it, the 25% pay cut means that the players are still being hit relatively harder than any other member of staff. 


 
 
what you would rather have 75% of £250.000 k or 100% of £15,000
 
whichever you look at it the players with the bigger salary's are still miles better off than any other member of staff
Of course they are. Am I missing something here?

That's the Scarlets, its in their DNA.
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 43325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Tbf I agree in that nearly all posts involving money / income and relative wealth tends to turn into moral outrage and finger pointing about “ them” cashing in whilst I still live in  a shoebox ( Monty Python credit there 😉) and live on sixpence! It never ends in unity and usually one or two fall out ... best avoided imo 


It's like the Spanish inquisition.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

It's not a source of wonder nor amazement that one person earns more than another when doing a range of different jobs with different skills and rewards.

I'm unsure what it's got to do with Scarlets rugby though.

All I can see from this thread is simmering bitterness and resentment … and an unnamed source.

What's the value add in this dialogue?
 
 
I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't see any bitterness or resentment here , the unnamed source is wol and it is also all over social media
 
no one is abusing or  slating anyone  it's a civil debate on the topic
by all means let the mods move it to the general chat forum
 
 it's not a source of wonder nor amazement that people have different views on this matter, no offence is intended and apologises if any has been caused


Edited by RR1972 - 20 April 2020 at 3:18pm
Back to Top
Wil Chips View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 23 August 2009
Location: Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 43325
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

It's not a source of wonder nor amazement that one person earns more than another when doing a range of different jobs with different skills and rewards.

I'm unsure what it's got to do with Scarlets rugby though.

All I can see from this thread is simmering bitterness and resentment … and an unnamed source.

What's the value add in this dialogue?

 
 
I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't see any bitterness or resentment here , the unnamed source is wol and it is also all over social media
 
no one is abusing or  slating anyone  it's a civil debate on the topic
by all means let the mods move it to the general chat forum
 
 it's not a source of wonder nor amazement that people have different views on this matter, no offence is intended and apologises if any has been caused





Yes I saw he WoL article, but there's no source to back it up. In other words no quote from the Scarlets or the Professional rugby body etc.

I'm not in the least offended by the way. No need to feel the need to apologize. Just given my verdict as requested.
I can't say I like the comments such as 'they can live like the rest of us' (which you agreed with 100%) - just seems unnecessary, and flawed.

Example.
They aren't like the majority of rest of us are they?
They are fixed short term contracted employees, as are coaches.

If you guaranteed a pro rugby player a permanent contact at a set wage with a severance package if you wanted to release them, then you'd be comparing apples with apples when talking furlough.

Not many players have a job horizon of more than 12 months, and at the end of that, possibly zip.

Maybe some people need to 'live like they do' to recognize the fragility of that existence.

So when your forfeiting 25% of your earnings for the next 3 months ( and I would have subscribed to it being a little more by the way)
that 25% could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different player.
For example, how about those with no contract come end May?
Those either planning or having to retire?

In essence most people align their outgoings to their incomes. You imply that the higher earners sit on some golden war chest that they can fall back on when times get hard. Totally flawed thinking.




Edited by Wil Chips - 20 April 2020 at 4:23pm
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 4:29pm
As said I don't want to get into an us vs them  debate but once a player retires , they enter the same world we all have to live in terms of getting a job etc
 
But the ones at the high end of the game are going into that world having earnt a v good wage and with the benefit of a high profile which is helpful in many jobs
 
These players must have agents or financial advisors who can ensure they have something set aside for retirement, don't the players association help in this respect
 
I don't begrudge players getting paid what they can as you say it's a short career and  , they give huge sacrifices to make it at the top level and no where on this thread have I said otherwise.
 
It's also none of my concern if they choose to spend what they earn it's their money they can do with it what they like
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 20 April 2020 at 4:38pm
Back to Top
EJPT View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 14 February 2012
Location: Berkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

It's not a source of wonder nor amazement that one person earns more than another when doing a range of different jobs with different skills and rewards.

I'm unsure what it's got to do with Scarlets rugby though.

All I can see from this thread is simmering bitterness and resentment … and an unnamed source.

What's the value add in this dialogue?

 
 
I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't see any bitterness or resentment here , the unnamed source is wol and it is also all over social media
 
no one is abusing or  slating anyone  it's a civil debate on the topic
by all means let the mods move it to the general chat forum
 
 it's not a source of wonder nor amazement that people have different views on this matter, no offence is intended and apologises if any has been caused





Yes I saw he WoL article, but there's no source to back it up. In other words no quote from the Scarlets or the Professional rugby body etc.

I'm not in the least offen.ded by the way. Just give my verdict as requested.
I can't say I like the comments like 'they can live like the rest of us' (which you agreed with 100%) seems unnecessary, and flawed.

Example.
They aren't like the majority of rest of us are they?
They are fixed short term contracted employees.

If you guaranteed a pro rugby player a permanent contact at a set wage with a severance package if you wanted to release them, then you'd be comparing apples with apples when talking furlough.

Not many players have a job horizon of more than 12 months, and at the end of that, possibly zip.

Maybe some people need to 'live like they do' to recognize the fragility of that existence.

So when your forfeiting 25% of your earnings for the next 3 months ( and I would have subscribed to it being a little more by the way)
that 25% could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different player.
For example, how about those with no contract come end May?
Those either planning or having to retire?

In essence most people align their outgoings to their incomes. You imply that the higher earners sit on some golden war chest that they can fall back on when times get hard. Totally flawed thinking.


You don’t agree with the sentiment thats fair enough, it was a bit knee jerk from meBut the club is more than just the players. Retiring at 30-35 and is a luxury very few can afford and is a bit different to working until 60-75. I don't feel sorry for the players giving up some /a reasonable amount of their wages whilst not playing (with the exception of those academy players). Plenty of clubs have done this already and generally its been welcomed by the supporters. 

I’m not on 250-400k so I don’t know what its like, maybe if i was i’d have more empathy Wink

I do feel like it would be a stab in the back to those people who work for the club in those lower paid roles. I’m not saying its happening, just if it does happen along with the alleged announcement.
Back to Top
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4378
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 6:11pm
It's the players at the beginning and end of their careers that this will hit the hardest.  Will will be able to answer this but is it possible for a player coming back from injury to have the same level of physio sessions and assistance as before. If not, it is going to be very hard for say Foxy to get back. And for someone like AWJ, just the lack of intense training may bring his career to an end. Meanwhile, those coming out of U20s are going to find it difficult to get that first contract. No money means fewer contracts for unproven players. I understand what Will is saying about the level of outgoings matching the salary but for an established regional player in the middle 80% of their career they will survive, return to their previous level of play and salary and at the end of their career be negligibly worse off.
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Offline
Points: 16298
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 6:17pm
I’d like to put some context on retiring at 35, or thereabouts.

Few players build up sufficient wealth to be able not to work for the rest of their life.

Most struggle to have a mortgage-free property with the rest of their life in order, post-playing.

Few are well prepared for life after playing without a significant pay cut.

RPA and WRPA messages are consistent on this and continue to make strides in the right direction.

Many of our posters will have closer knowledge on some individual situations that can either reinforce these general observations or fly in their face.

Pain is being shared everywhere and few are exempt.

Tough times undeniably and hope the mechanics of the support schemes to individuals and businesses do deliver.
Any offence taken on board is only a literate/cy consequence. Every attempt at humour is just that. No personal insult intended. Standards lowered for trolls.
Back to Top
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4378
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 6:24pm
Quite so. There will be very few umcapped Welsh players for the regions on more than 100 k. They will have to work for decades after the end of their rugby careers. 
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 23109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 6:30pm
try being self employed,5 months of rain and then this virus strikes,i won't get anything until june at the earliest and yes I could go to work because I work on my own but you can't get the materials to do the work.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 23109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2020 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Quite so. There will be very few umcapped Welsh players for the regions on more than 100 k. They will have to work for decades after the end of their rugby careers. 
I think you will find that the majority of people have to work for decades,i left school and started working at 16 (14 if you include my Saturday and evening jobs) and I've got to work till i'm 67.
30th june 1986- 30th june 2011.25 years roofing,i wouldn't call that dodgy.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.