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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boring Rugby
    Posted: 12 August 2021 at 4:34pm
Could go either way this. If you got a strong driving line out maul and a good kicker from hamd you can easily make a game plan out of this
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League

I agree - BUT THE SA 9 was allowed to BLATANTLY put the ball into the second row, right in front of the ref. It certainly isn't a 'fair contest' if refs allow that - it was very poor indeed.

Greenwood asked Nigel what he thought & he agreed that more needs to be done about it but Nige also said the ref's are focussing on lots at scrum time so I am not sure what can be done.

Maybe so, but the SA 9 was doing the most blatant feeding I have seen for a long time... I suspect that, if the ref had awarded a free kick against him early on, he'd have been more careful from then on.

The rule, admittedly 2-3 seasons ago, was that the scrum half had to have the point of his left shoulder in line with the centre of the front row channel. He then had to put the ball in straight. The saffer 9s were barely abiding by the first part of this and absolutely weren't putting the ball in straight. 

What is needed is a return to 70s scrums where the front rows just folded into their binds, sometimes before the players on the ground had stood up. But getting that to happen is not going to be easy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mundoscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 11:53am
I wohkd say,the way to stop.it,would be 2 video refs,1 specific to focus on offsides and put in at scrum and also throwing in straight.these are areas where I think lots of things are getting missed,giving teams unfair advantages 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League

I agree - BUT THE SA 9 was allowed to BLATANTLY put the ball into the second row, right in front of the ref. It certainly isn't a 'fair contest' if refs allow that - it was very poor indeed.

Greenwood asked Nigel what he thought & he agreed that more needs to be done about it but Nige also said the ref's are focussing on lots at scrum time so I am not sure what can be done.

Maybe so, but the SA 9 was doing the most blatant feeding I have seen for a long time... I suspect that, if the ref had awarded a free kick against him early on, he'd have been more careful from then on.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 8:14am
Agree completely just another attempt to turn union into league .scrums line  outs and before that old style contested rucks and mauls keep forwards out of the defensive line as well as tiring them out which creates space.
The changes on tap and go will have the opposite effect
How long after these law changes to dropping two forwards to create a bit more room on the pitch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League

I agree - BUT THE SA 9 was allowed to BLATANTLY put the ball into the second row, right in front of the ref. It certainly isn't a 'fair contest' if refs allow that - it was very poor indeed.

Greenwood asked Nigel what he thought & he agreed that more needs to be done about it but Nige also said the ref's are focussing on lots at scrum time so I am not sure what can be done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League

I agree - BUT THE SA 9 was allowed to BLATANTLY put the ball into the second row, right in front of the ref. It certainly isn't a 'fair contest' if refs allow that - it was very poor indeed.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League

That is very true. Wyn Jones' value to his teams will decrease because in all honesty refs cannot be entrusted on using the current rulebook to get it right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:46pm
I don’t like the denigration of scrums as a contest. They’re a crucial part of the game and what makes rugby Union distinct from league. 

The value competitive, contestible scums bring is they mean teams require 2 extra distinct body types on the pitch. 

If you take away the importance of props and a scrummaging hooker you’ll have 6 players with the physique of back rowers on the pitch, meaning there will be less space for attackers and less value for the small players and running fullback who target the 120kg props to create gaps in defence.

Rugby Unions charm is in having a place for a Shane Williams and a Uini Antonio and Antoine DuPont and a Samson Lee, you don’t get such variety in Rugby League
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 

Scrums are now only happening for a knock on, all other incidents that would have resulted in a scrum are now tap & pass. 
And ball held up in mauls ? Re scrums what about only allowing scrums outside 22 metres mark which are less likely to tactically collapse and banning them inside 22 metres ( where tactiCal collapsing is more likely)  but subsisting a tap and go ? Scrums are killing the game . 
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:47am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Rather than introduce a new raft of timed rules why not just instruct the ref to penalise slow play after giving a formal warning.

I don’t think it would be too invasive as most of them already are timed rules, penalties, scrums and “use it”. I just think they need a way to make it easier for the referees to ping teams when they do actually go over time

A shot clock like they have in pool isn’t too invasive and would actually mean teams were penalised for slowing the game down 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:17am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 

Scrums are now only happening for a knock on, all other incidents that would have resulted in a scrum are now tap & pass. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:05am
Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 
"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

The law changes coming into the game this season should help to create a better game in the attacking sense, particularly the 50/22 as it will make teams think about having 3 players in the back field to combat this. This should in theory create more gaps in the defensive line, until the attacking team get deeper into the oppositions half anyway. 

We will have hardly any scrums now which should also see a bit more pace in the game, though forward pass & not straight at the lineout will be a tap & pass but the defenders have to be given time to get 10m back.

I await with interest to see how these changes will affect the game. I am not convinced. I see most tap & go free kicks ending up in the air as they would have done from a free kick nowadays. This will not really speed up the game or make it more entertaining just more opportunity for kicking. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 9:10am
The law changes coming into the game this season should help to create a better game in the attacking sense, particularly the 50/22 as it will make teams think about having 3 players in the back field to combat this. This should in theory create more gaps in the defensive line, until the attacking team get deeper into the oppositions half anyway. 

We will have hardly any scrums now which should also see a bit more pace in the game, though forward pass & not straight at the lineout will be a tap & pass but the defenders have to be given time to get 10m back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 7:30am
Rather than introduce a new raft of timed rules why not just instruct the ref to penalise slow play after giving a formal warning. Both the Lions and Boks were slow to engage at lineouts. Nothing to do with time wasting but I am beyond fed up of refs not policing the crooked feed in the scrums. The Boks scrum half took it to new levels last weekend not far off feeding direct to the No 8!!!!!

As for the rugby served up it was frankly awful. Gatland knew what was coming from the Boks - supposedly picked a squad to counter it - instead his teams became a poorer copy of the Boks. Lets face it he has had huge success with Wales by doing almost the same as the Boks - fiery defence, aerial efficiency and strong packs. It is not in his DNA to take quick tap and goes from 9 or to have a 10 who looks for the outside channels with his hands and not his feet. 
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