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scarletpimp
Veteran Joined: 22 November 2015 Location: llanelli Status: Offline Points: 2585 |
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Its clearly a case here of idealism versus pragmatism. To be honest , all the the ideas totallybiasedscarlet has ,at considerable time and length on here, I am quite interested in. Concentrating power in Westminster, post Brexit, without maybe passing all revenue streams to devolved administrations, that have might otherwise gone to Europe, does not stack up. I am for an increased authority, legislative, and otherwise, in the Senedd, and further down the line a review of how the UK would work as a confederation of states. That's for then, and this is for now. Starmer has a fine line to tread. Last election, there was a forum of voters in Bristol who were questioned of their concerns. The obvious economy and NHS surfaced, as at that time Brexit. What also featured , was the clear irritation from ENGLISH voters , that Nicola sturgeon could hold the balance of power and call the shots to a possible Corbyn government What would not go down well with them was Corbyn , buying her off with cheap political sweeteners regarding referendum etc. Its almost the same with Brexit, with so many Labour votes voting Leave in red Wall seats. They wanted to be listened too, and thought they were not, at the last election. Personally, I would want the UK to re-negotiate some terms with ,or the free trade agreement, or the level playing field agreement, currently undermined by Sunak . Further down the line negotiate re-entry in to the customs union, which would solve NI problems. That's my own opinion, but rightly Starmer has parked a lot of the discussion, which caused so much Angst for so long. Starmer is no orator , with personality that be described as un charismatic. I am sure there will be many things that will come from Labour proving forward in terms of detail. Most certainly the five major points he made today were a in artistic terms "a rough sketch". As I have said in previous post , he does not need to put in detail now and give Tories free points scoring. Finally, I will say this Starmer , may not be everyone's cup of tea, even mine, but he MUST get credit from transforming the Labour party ,a party divided by racism and anti Semitism, and a total organisational mess under Jeremy Corbyn. Capturing the mood of the nation is the next step, and as others have rightly said, its not enough to say "we are the good guys", or "vote for us we re' not Tories. You have to connect, you have to energise, and most of all give hope. To do that effectively you also need need to ensure that there are no distractions which blur your core messages. The Tory lackies just wait for these opportunities and explode them in the media, so you end up defensively, defending thins you don't want to defend, instead of talking about things you really want to talk about. This is a really issue bearing in mind the media bias we are currently facing and have always faced historically. Starmer, generally speaking is playing it fine, and needs to continue to do much of the same for now. Labour have have always been "softer" than than the Tories, who's "say anything " mentality has won them election after election. As I have said earlier, it sometimes pays , not to say a lot. Pragmatism , over idealism, maybe, but there is so much at stake here now. Its not just the the future of NHS, the economy, the clean energy programme, justice and job creation, but it is the lives of so many that are totally intertwined with these issues that is important. These people face a cataclysmic disaster if Starmer fails
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I stood yer on tanner bank
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Offline Points: 18784 |
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I agree with you Pimp - to a point. Starmer, so far, can rely on the Tories not getting their act together. Slowly but surely he is introducing his agenda/policies - again sensible thinking. However as the next election gets nearer he has to take the gloves off - for goodness sake his advisers must have so much evidence of downright corruption & profiteering by Tory scum that an offensive, timed correctly, by his in house rottweiler should pave the way for a successful campaign. I vote for TBS as a candidate for the rottweiler.
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Good points SP & GPR (sorry, SP - don't know why I read Lofty on your reply to me). What you touch on towards the end is really about how the Tories are so deeply ingrained, how it is they dominate electorally. There is a way forward to unravel their built in advantages ... but Starmer has ruled some key parts out e.g PR, federalism, written constitution. And therein lies my frustration. Perhaps I'm too impatient but I really want to know what Labour has in mind for their (highly likely) term in government. I think that we're at a critical juncture in British history. Whatever our opinion on Brexit, there's no doubt that it was an historic event. The UK State is creaking if not splintering with internal tensions not least of which is the crippling economic inequalities it has inflicted on the nations and regions of these isles. Westminster must bear the brunt of criticism for this. I'm thankful that Starmer has in fact identified many of these problems and issues. But I am impatient for the solutions.
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/23/revealed-scale-of-forever-chemical-pollution-across-uk-and-europe
Another article about PFAS. These things are nasty. Another symptom of a broken system. I always find it interesting how we see "the working class" pitched against "capitalism" as the great fight of the industrial era. I also find it interesting how the right think they have a monopoly on "capitalism" and exclusive ownership of Adam Smith's legacy. It's strange because Marxism is a capitalist theory too. It just proposes a different model of ownership. And Adam Smith would likely be aghast at the modern model of capitalism. In his seminal work he warns against oligarchies and monopolies. His theory is of a market of many small players all in competition. He talks of the necessity of investing in "public good". Further we should consider what is known as the "tragedy of the commons" - when our environment is degraded to the point it adversely affects human activity. To me capitalism is a description of a model of ownership and trade. It can be done well. It can be done badly. I think all the signs are there that we're doing things badly right now and have done for some time.
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lofty evans
Rambler Joined: 20 September 2007 Location: Gorseinon Status: Offline Points: 53415 |
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Some great posts on this thread...
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18272 |
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Communisum is great , if you don’t want freedom of religion, secuality, ability to protest and don’t want to live in poverty all your life
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Kentexile
Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: Kent Status: Offline Points: 616 |
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Whether it is capitalism, communism or any other system it will invariably be created in the image of and work to the benefit of whoever controls it.
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Oracle
Veteran Joined: 19 September 2022 Location: North pole Status: Offline Points: 3959 |
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That's authoratarianism not communism - yes I know, the two things can coexist. Did so in Soviet Russia obviously. On the other end of the specrum you have Thatcher's ridiculous statement "no such thing as society". I don't know why people think everything has to be so polarised, so black and white? It seems obvious to me that the common good and the rights and responsibilities of individuals should be held in balance? Communalism - good thing when we work to gether for common cause. Individual human rights - good thing that people have the freedom to live the (legal) life they choose. But I see folk almost spitting at one idea or the other. Ok, that is the extreme Left/Right to be fair but it is wrecking me how polarised public discourse has become. Where are the moderates!?!
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18272 |
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Edited by RR1972 - 24 February 2023 at 11:42am |
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lofty evans
Rambler Joined: 20 September 2007 Location: Gorseinon Status: Offline Points: 53415 |
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Karl Marx and his ideals where fair, what spoils everything are humans .... |
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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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Glad to see the Welsh assembly get a slating on question time last night for their frankly insane abdication of their national welsh road strategy
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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I still think you're mainly describing authoratarianism. The states you described sometimes conflate these things and yes, there are enormous problems with each and every one of them. Mind you, I find the label "communist" doesn't fit China very well at all. "One-party capitalist dictatorship" might be better nowdays? What none of those countries are is democratic. Have we ever seen communism at work in a democracy? I don't believe so. The two concepts are by no means antithetical. We can say that Marxism inspired Mao, Castro and Lenin certainly. Was Stalin a Marxist? Not sure really. He was a b*****d without a shadow of a doubt. But by and large there we're dealing with authoratarians and dictators. I get it is not easy to look at communism without the weight of those countries influencing our views but I don't believe that concepts of communality in the state are without merit. But here's the big thing for me. When people become diehard communists/socialists/liberals/progressives/greens/conservatives/libertarians and can only think in the specific terms of their political philosophy, I just can't go along with it. It's funny - I'd describe my politics as liberal/green/social democratic. But I can't stand dogmatic adherence and rallying to the flag type tribal politics. This is why my better half encouraged *cough* me to get off Twitter . I really did try to be reasonable but it's not a good place for nuance. It's keyboard warrior country.
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Senedd or Welsh Government Roy come on now I get why we can't just go building roads willy nilly. And it's not a complete moratorium on building roads. There's still 14 had the go ahead. The rest have to go back to consultation based on a new set of criteria that they do not raise CO2 emissions. There remains a budget to maintain and adapt existing roads. What was frankly insane, was that the WG have cut bus services to some areas! There is a reasonable point that we must get to grips with our carbon emissions, but give people viable alternatives. My take on the whole thing was, Ok, so we need to cut car use ... what's the strategy? And that's what I'd still like to know.
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18272 |
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Edited by RR1972 - 24 February 2023 at 5:15pm |
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Sir Duckling Tuft
Senior Member Joined: 27 May 2012 Location: wales Status: Offline Points: 844 |
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The labour mp was asked 6 times is this a bad decision that will hurt the welsh economy,6 times she didnt answer and changed the subject....Totally disingenuous and frankly pathetic There was over £100 million spent on the relief roads investigation which was all wasted too...Now therell be more delays more congestion, more pot holes more pollution and remote areas even more cut off and isolated....Labour have totally lost the plot on this and many issues in wales. They need to get back to reality. we need infinitely better roads and relief roads and one connecting the north and south....we also need a proper airport run privately and a massive all encompassing long term plan and strategy to rebuild town centres and help small medium businesses rather than cow tow to the retaila and corporate giants , who pay far less to the treasury per head than sme's
Edited by Sir Duckling Tuft - 24 February 2023 at 5:27pm |
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sir duckling tuft
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