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Jordan Williams

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CTMassive View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CTMassive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by CTMassive CTMassive wrote:

Unfortunately it may be that he needs to bulk up like Halfpenny as he got caught in defence for their try. Jordan is class though, a future 10, after RHys........... In a long while!

 

I still don't understand the insistence with pigeon-holing him at 10, like it's a necessary reward for raw talent.

 

The boy is clearly deadly in space and a fantastically gifted runner. Let's keep him in the back three and let him exploit the space and broken field situations from deep. There's no space at 10 anymore.


The point is Mike, it's as a 10 he's always played! To play him wing is pigeon-holing him. It wasn't until Wales age grade that I'd seen him shunted from 10. Once you get to see him some more, you will understand the talent he has, his step and acceleration are akin to a winger, but his vision and time on the ball is wonderful to watch at standoff, he invariably beats the first man but what he has is an incredible pass and awareness of the position of his outside man. Sure he has deficiencies to work on, but he'll work on those, but when you see him slicing through defensive lines and setting up George past the gain line, it's unstoppable! ............... Second thoughts ........................ Ship him out to the wing
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InTheBath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote InTheBath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:11pm
Surely he has always played at 10 because people always put their most talented runner/ball player at 10 in age grade?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CTMassive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:14pm
He was put at 10 because he scored and made tries, he managed the game, took the kicks and all the above reasons!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote InTheBath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:16pm
Well, we'll see. He clearly has bags of talent but I wouldn't expect to see him at 10 very often apart from LV matches over the next couple of years. Once he hits 21/22 and fills out a bit....who knows?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

I think he could play across the back three. I read a lot of people saying certain players would be 'wasted on the wing'. Don't get it at all. Was Shane Williams wasted on the wing? Is George North? Outside half is a facilitation role now, rather than a platform for a gamebreaking runner. That's not to say Jordan couldn't play there, of course.

I'd continue to develop him at 15 this year when Liam is away or when we target games for Jordan (like Connacht). We should also have a look at him on the wing.

its a nonsense i feel. all this set position. you play with a set of backs, there is nothing wrong with bringing jordan in as a 1st receiver in the right areas, when the time is right.

just the same as a back three works together. one takes high balls, at full back, but on attacking ball you use your best of the three at coming into the line.

jordan has a useful left boot on him. (both feet actually) he can also be used to split an attack both ways with priestland.

we have many options. but the selected backs in any one match should be fluid.

its up to the players on the field to adapt and control their shape to have our best options available at the right time, and in the right place on the pitch.

its not so much about having full backs wings and centres, but having 6 talented footballing rugby players playing fluid attacking, but organised rugby together. jordan brings something different to our attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:

Surely he has always played at 10 because people always put their most talented runner/ball player at 10 in age grade?

 
 
the higher up the rugby pyramid you go though the more we see solid 10's and game breaking 15s
 
look at the 6 nations and compare the 15's to the 10s and see where the strike runners are playing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:22pm
there are plenty of talented players who played 10 all through age grade, but didn`t make it as a top class 10.

hook and henson being two of the most famous cases.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote InTheBath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:25pm
FWIW, I don't think the Ospreys are doing Matthew Morgan any favours by playing him at 10 at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by InTheBath InTheBath wrote:

Surely he has always played at 10 because people always put their most talented runner/ball player at 10 in age grade?

 
 
the higher up the rugby pyramid you go though the more we see solid 10's and game breaking 15s
 
look at the 6 nations and compare the 15's to the 10s and see where the strike runners are playing
agreed.

its just too physical to play a small 10 these days. look what has been happening to matthew morgan. his confidence is starting to creek now because he cant cope. he should have been brought in at 15. as we`ve done with jordan.

especially seeing as the o`s could do with a footballer at full back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTMassive Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:30pm
I never said within a couple of years, maybe 4 or 5, he will be Rhys' understudy as he himself was to Steven for all those years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the ezmanoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2012 at 11:53pm
I still would be tempted to play Jordan at 15 and Liam and north on the wing. Liam is playing well at full back but these 3 together could be immense. It doesn't matter what age you are if your good enough you should be selected and Jordan's 2 moments in setting up north and steping for his try means he should be given a chance now.

Also if Rhys is kicking badly it does give us another option as we not going to score a shed load of tries every game.
what is point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 1:10am
wherever he plays, he needs to be included more regularly in the match day 22's It will be fascinating to see how he develops. as speedy says, theres nothing stopping us using him as first receiver now again. He looks lethal in broken field situations.
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 5:54am
Unfortunately there is not room for Jordan, Aled, Sanjay and Rhys in the match day 23. Right now Jordan would be the one to miss out. No shame in that.

Any of those 4 players miss out through rotation or injury then Jordan is in...in that statement I now see that has now gone ahead of Newts and is our current second choice 15, and 3rd choice 10 (acknowledging that Gareth Owen and Stodds may have influence on this as the year rols out.)

All being well I would play Jordan (and Dan T)in the starting 15 from the Edinburgh match and for the next 3 games ..Edinburgh away, Zebre home and the 2 LV games.
An opportunity to give what development players what they really need...a run of games (see Nick R as a cautionary tale in this)

Finally, I would also suggest that Jordan just forced himself in the HC squad, possibly at the expense of Stodds.
We shouls find out today as the squads had to be in yesterday.

Edited by Wil Chips - 17 September 2012 at 5:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 7:54am
i think our form back three has to be fenby, sanjay and north.

they will start imo.

ken should get the nod at hooker.

kelly and earle at lock.

i`d go for a big back row like we did against leinster.

rob gog, shingler, turnbull(if fit). if not murphy.

we`ve got enough height in the pack to destroy their lineout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 8:21am
Originally posted by CTMassive CTMassive wrote:

Unfortunately it may be that he needs to bulk up like Halfpenny as he got caught in defence for their try. Jordan is class though, a future 10, after RHys........... In a long while!


I agree that he needs to bulk up.

But this had nothing to do with the try - a poor pass was scooped up (by Nikora?) and immediately transferred to the wing - the Scarlets defence was caught out (either short of numbers, or drawn infield by the poor pass) and the wing went over unopposed. Even George would not have stopped it, if he'd been standing where Jordan was!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2012 at 8:30am
I agree with those who see Sanjay, George and Fenby as our first choices in the back 3 at the moment - though clearly Rhys's kicking remains a worry (not so much in Connacht, as the wind was a factor - but Glasgow was poor).

Interestingly, Jordan's rather slight physique wasn't put to the test by Connacht, as they kicked too long, giving him plenty of time to catch the ball. I'd be uneasy about playing him at 15 against a team with a better kicking game - I'd hate to see him getting smashed by big centres or wings. Sanjay is far more able to take care of himself in those circumstances, IMO.

Which leads me to change my mind about playing him as a wing - it's not a 'natural' position for a player with his skill set, but if we absolutely need him as a kicker, that's where I'd put him at the moment.

No doubt, if he bulks up like 1/2p while keeping his speed, we'll see him at 10 sooner or later...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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