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The Future for Regional / Professional Rugby

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Topic: The Future for Regional / Professional Rugby
Posted By: philturk
Subject: The Future for Regional / Professional Rugby
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 12:29pm
With all of the "noise", rumours and disarray in Welsh rugby, I wondered what people's opinion of the shape of the future should look like?

With so many proposals being thrown around for the mere survival of the game, is that acceptable? Do you want to see 4 regions barely surviving or would you prefer to see 2 or 3 properly funded and able to be truly competitive?

I'll kick off the conversation with my utopia for the way forward:

Disband the WRU control of the Regions - we are 4 businesses in our own right and need financial control of our own futures. 5 representatives on a joint committee, 1 from each region and a players representative too. Negotiate their own funding from URC, TV and WRU for player release and then split the pot equally 4 ways! Each business can increase funding by their own marketing, sponsorship deals etc etc

Full transparency on the financial position of each entity (as England have done since the demise of Worcester and Wasps) this will allow players and fans a level of trust and security.

Regions to gain WAG from schools initiatives to engage with the next generation of players who may be leaning towards football or other sports - Before regional rugby I was fortunate enough to have SQ, Finau, Easterby and Vernon Cooper all attend various training sessions for the school team. Engaging with club training is preaching to the converted, if kids are playing for a club then they are already engaged in the game, enticing children from schools allows us to expand the player base.

Basically its a 3 fold approach - independence and control - financial security - develop and invest in the next generation

The sting in the tail is - sack the dead weight, jobs for the boys, gravy train brigade. If you want business professionals then recruit on merit and a robust CV, not on mates or playing successes from a bygone era 



Replies:
Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by philturk philturk wrote:

With all of the "noise", rumours and disarray in Welsh rugby, I wondered what people's opinion of the shape of the future should look like?

With so many proposals being thrown around for the mere survival of the game, is that acceptable? Do you want to see 4 regions barely surviving or would you prefer to see 2 or 3 properly funded and able to be truly competitive?

I'll kick off the conversation with my utopia for the way forward:

Disband the WRU control of the Regions - we are 4 businesses in our own right and need financial control of our own futures. 5 representatives on a joint committee, 1 from each region and a players representative too. Negotiate their own funding from URC, TV and WRU for player release and then split the pot equally 4 ways! Each business can increase funding by their own marketing, sponsorship deals etc etc

Full transparency on the financial position of each entity (as England have done since the demise of Worcester and Wasps) this will allow players and fans a level of trust and security.

Regions to gain WAG from schools initiatives to engage with the next generation of players who may be leaning towards football or other sports - Before regional rugby I was fortunate enough to have SQ, Finau, Easterby and Vernon Cooper all attend various training sessions for the school team. Engaging with club training is preaching to the converted, if kids are playing for a club then they are already engaged in the game, enticing children from schools allows us to expand the player base.

Basically its a 3 fold approach - independence and control - financial security - develop and invest in the next generation

The sting in the tail is - sack the dead weight, jobs for the boys, gravy train brigade. If you want business professionals then recruit on merit and a robust CV, not on mates or playing successes from a bygone era 
Is that wales in general or just the Scarlets


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 3:12pm
Two regions I'd like. East and west. 


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Two regions I'd like. East and west. 
You’d like for the club you support to drop out of top level rugby in favour of a newly created team? I can’t get my head around that. 


Posted By: philturk
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 3:53pm
Across the board, you wouldn't have a former driver running an F1 Team purely based on being mates with someone. There's a few exceptions to that rule (Lauda and Eddie Jordan) but they've proven to be very astute businessmen

Personally I question the credentials of Nigel Walker & Ieuan Evans - what successes have they had in the corporate world?


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Two regions I'd like. East and west. 

Your better than this SA14......




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Two regions I'd like. East and west. 
You’d like for the club you support to drop out of top level rugby in favour of a newly created team? I can’t get my head around that. 

Absolutely.....no bloody way.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 4:45pm
What it needs is never going to happen as its 20 years too late. 
Dissolve the union, create 2 new entities, one pro and one amateur. 
Pro run by pros, Amateur run by the union. 
Separate TV deals, sponsorship deals etc. 
Moneys from amateur union pays for hobby clubs
Pro entity could theoretically choose which league to play in
Union pays pro clubs for player release.



-------------
Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Two regions I'd like. East and west. 
You’d like for the club you support to drop out of top level rugby in favour of a newly created team? I can’t get my head around that. 

No but if it came down to it I'd follow the team. 


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Two regions I'd like. East and west. 
You’d like for the club you support to drop out of top level rugby in favour of a newly created team? I can’t get my head around that. 

No but if it came down to it I'd follow the team. 


I wouldn't. 




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

What it needs is never going to happen as its 20 years too late. 
Dissolve the union, create 2 new entities, one pro and one amateur. 
Pro run by pros, Amateur run by the union. 
Separate TV deals, sponsorship deals etc. 
Moneys from amateur union pays for hobby clubs
Pro entity could theoretically choose which league to play in
Union pays pro clubs for player release.

the b and i lge is what could save us, not this urc treadmill towards doom


Posted By: SVD
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 5:54pm
I couldn’t possibly support a ‘made up’ team either. No disrespect to anyone who could, but my happiest childhood memories are of following the Scarlets (and fifteen years of working in Swansea with Osprey supporters hasn’t helped, I admit). It just wouldn’t be the same. If it came to it I have two choices who to support, Burry Port, where I was brought up, or Felinfoel, where I have now for lived longer than I lived in BP.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 6:43pm
I hear a lot of people expressing concerns about grass roots rugby.(Not on here) I bet they don't even watch any other games. What's making matters worse is All this is going on at that time of year when everyone is suddenly a rugby expert. 😂


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 7:02pm
What people on here need to do is buy a VR headset then rerun and nausium all of those 'great' games of the last century .....it's unfortunate that we don't see many people looking forward ...we are drinking at the last chance saloon and the fat lady is on the stage .
We have to get this right , and we all need to let go of the past , huge mistakes have been made , money we don't have has been spent and our governing body is being investigated for sexual threats or even worse ....we can't afford to have the idiots remain in charge , but I am not optimistic 
I feel that 
1 The same idiots will remain in charge 
2 The result of the sexual enquiry will be buried and people bought off
3 The blazers at junior club level will still want their free bees 
4 The regions will lose players 
5 Our best players will have success only at french Japan level 
6 We will needlessly spend money on really poor coaches at youth and amateur levels 
7 Future top level coaches will still take contracts with us but deep down they will know that winning anything will be next to non existant and any up and coming player will sign for a big overseas club 
8 Wales could be successful if a top coch can pull together the players from around the world 

And that last point is really the only one that most of the Welsh population care about ...The I'm Welsh for 90 minutes every six nations Saturday ...I will spend my money , I will wear a stupid daffodil and I will mumble my way through the national anthem ...but I have no idea who those 25 players are and I have no idea what club they play for ....


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 7:41pm
Just found this article by Brian Moore
https://twitter.com/Richard99366022/status/1627674487574474752?t=Zy_BE84ekcPaahhAT3ba8g&s=19" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/Richard99366022/status/1627674487574474752?t=Zy_BE84ekcPaahhAT3ba8g&s=19


Posted By: Kentexile
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 8:52pm
Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.






Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 8:56pm

  Dragons and  Ospreys get 4k at nearly every home game .


Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?

Agreed there is something askew here .




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:36pm
Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:44pm
Hewitt on today if no
Deal by feb could be a full on strike including regional games


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 February 2023 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Hewitt on today if no
Deal by feb could be a full on strike including regional games

You have to fight for the right thing sometimes my friend...whatever the cost.

Years of neglect of the players is not on...it ain't on. Ever.

Most have an image of pampered over payed players.....its not ...im thinking of Joe average from , Dafen, Felinfoel, Hendy, Tumble who at 18 dream of making a career of playing for my home town....for me this is what's it all about.


Are we serious about looking after Welsh players and do an Irish culture for the glory for Ireland or are we going to listen to well educated toffs who know far better than me thick Stebo boy cos they went to a more privileged education and therefore deserve the right to say what that future holds for that Dafen, Felinfoel, Hendy, Tumble.

Screw the WRU




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 7:06am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

What people on here need to do is buy a VR headset then rerun and nausium all of those 'great' games of the last century .....it's unfortunate that we don't see many people looking forward ...we are drinking at the last chance saloon and the fat lady is on the stage .
We have to get this right , and we all need to let go of the past , huge mistakes have been made , money we don't have has been spent and our governing body is being investigated for sexual threats or even worse ....we can't afford to have the idiots remain in charge , but I am not optimistic 
I feel that 
1 The same idiots will remain in charge 
2 The result of the sexual enquiry will be buried and people bought off
3 The blazers at junior club level will still want their free bees 
4 The regions will lose players 
5 Our best players will have success only at french Japan level 
6 We will needlessly spend money on really poor coaches at youth and amateur levels 
7 Future top level coaches will still take contracts with us but deep down they will know that winning anything will be next to non existant and any up and coming player will sign for a big overseas club 
8 Wales could be successful if a top coch can pull together the players from around the world 

And that last point is really the only one that most of the Welsh population care about ...The I'm Welsh for 90 minutes every six nations Saturday ...I will spend my money , I will wear a stupid daffodil and I will mumble my way through the national anthem ...but I have no idea who those 25 players are and I have no idea what club they play for ....

Sums up my worst fears quite nicely Oracle. The fat lady ain't just on the stage she is on the final verse. Ouch


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 8:59am
I’m getting past caring I’ve supported the Scarlets for over 50 years. We are being dictated to by a bunch of small minded valley boys who think they are so important that they deserve to be treated like royalty by the WRU. 
Yes we need to do better to attract more investment and we need to do better to attract more fans, winning helps, but we are now being asked to do it with both hands and feet tied behind our backs.
How about inviting Sir Jim Ratcliffe down to the Brive game and show him what the Scarlets are all about. He’s got a few spare quid and is looking to invest in sport. 
Just think if we had an investor so that we could be independent of  the WRU. 


-------------
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: pillory
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 9:27am
I want the Scarlets to continue to exist at the top table. It's about more than sport, this is culture and place - they are my connection to where I'm from.

Pretend economists can look at the wider region incorporating Swansea and say it's silly to have two such regions - but those are paper economics that overlook some very obvious facts.

Simon Muderack on the latest Scrum V podcast episode is very impressive as ever. It made me proud - they really get the connection they embody to west Wales and to the town. This is about identity and the "social" dimension, as he put it.

He said we are fortunate enough to have a pool of around 10 benefactors who are thankfully prepared to put their hands in their pockets.

PRB wants the regions to simply do better at commercial, at revenue-making. I think they need investment in commercial strategy and talent to make that happen, they need help getting into the kinds of networks and rolling out the kinds of ideas that may make a difference.

I fear the rather facile idea of "there's not enough money to go around" (despite the WRU having up to £41m from CVC that it is apparently duty-bound to invest in anything other than rugby) is gaining negative traction at this juncture. Cutting a region is not something that could be walked back from.

Fingers-crossed, I'm hopeful Simon and the team will continue making the best case for west Wales and Llanelli.




Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 9:55am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:06am
I am afraid the attraction of playing for Wales has been diminished markedly by recent events. Add in the fact that in exchange foe allowing you to play for Wales if you do not have 60 caps you must accept a 30% reduction in salary which is being presented as 80% plus 20% performance related & thats if you are lucky enough to be offered a contract.

The 60 cap rule is dead in the water. The attraction of Welsh caps & France 2023 can surely be judged by Hawkins signing for Exeter. We all need to brace ourselves for more bad news with guys like Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake etc out of contract. I listened to Simon Muderack's video chat & he confirmed that it has been 5 weeks since the heads of agreement was signed & remarkably the full contract he is yet to see. The reality is we are very unlikely to see any concrete offers to players before April at best. By then the exodus trickle could well have become a torrent. 


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:06am
Yeah we’ll look like the premier league football. With teams of overseas players and a couple of Welsh players we are able to retain.

Zero incentive to play in wales now. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:08am
The players wanting the 60 cap rule ended they're basically saying we wanna play elsewhere. Why else would they want it scrapped. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:08am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:45am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly

Fair point but on the flip side sometimes an organisation can see potentials in players. We've signed players that we've thought who the heck are they and have excelled. Tadgh a prime example. 


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Just found this article by Brian Moore
https://twitter.com/Richard99366022/status/1627674487574474752?t=Zy_BE84ekcPaahhAT3ba8g&s=19" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/Richard99366022/status/1627674487574474752?t=Zy_BE84ekcPaahhAT3ba8g&s=19

Some valid points there to be fair.


-------------
Scarlets!!!


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:01am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly

Fair point but on the flip side sometimes an organisation can see potentials in players. We've signed players that we've thought who the heck are they and have excelled. Tadgh a prime example. 
fair point but there are plenty in their mid 20s in wales who are good  now as they are ever going to get. They maybe better off  financially working a full time job and playing semi pro rugby on a weekend tbh


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:24am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly

Fair point but on the flip side sometimes an organisation can see potentials in players. We've signed players that we've thought who the heck are they and have excelled. Tadgh a prime example. 
fair point but there are plenty in their mid 20s in wales who are good  now as they are ever going to get. They maybe better off  financially working a full time job and playing semi pro rugby on a weekend tbh

What an effing mess. We're the laughing stock of world rugby. We go from highs to the lowest of the low. 


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:40am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly

Fair point but on the flip side sometimes an organisation can see potentials in players. We've signed players that we've thought who the heck are they and have excelled. Tadgh a prime example. 
fair point but there are plenty in their mid 20s in wales who are good  now as they are ever going to get. They maybe better off  financially working a full time job and playing semi pro rugby on a weekend tbh

What an effing mess. We're the laughing stock of world rugby. We go from highs to the lowest of the low. 

Agreed its the WRU and their appalling idiots that run and ruin the game....let's all concentrate on getting rid of the flaccid dicks.

And get some shares in Pfizer 






-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:41am
Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:51am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Just seen it myself....ouch ...hopefully they are and make a stand....Rorke's drift, the Battle of Tuthill, of Bryn Glas, Battle of Badon, Battle of Orewin Bridge, Battle of Chester, Hatfield Chase, Battle of St Fagans, fighting the bloody Saxons, Romans, bloody Normans....

Stand together like St David who told his soldiers to wear leaks on their helmets so they could spot each other in Battle, Gwenllian the Welsh warrior Princess and of course Owan Glyndwr....we have always fought for our existence and its in us....to do the right thing.

Shove the Lords and idiots that ruin one of the greatest experiences in rugby, Welsh rugby....hope they make a stand.

That's all i have to say.







-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

I think Gats was always doing a press conference at 12:30.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

I think Gats was always doing a press conference at 12:30.

Don't spoil the anticipation Fscarlet mun. LOL


-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 12:29pm
Gats doing what he can to shake down the WRU bosses 


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 12:38pm
Jamie Roberts comments similar to my own opinion. Privately owned pro sides or central, union run outfits. Pick one. This halfway house is unsustainable.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 12:48pm
Gats hasn't turned up ..it was due to start at 12.30 ..12.51 no Warren 


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 12:49pm
Why is Gatland doing updates on contract negotiations? Nothing to do with him. Where is the CEO? Chair? 

-------------
What's going on?


Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?

Its an utterly crazy statement. The ONLY thing that should need investment IS the Pro game, what on earth are they proposing spending the other 80% on? (hotels etc I guess). Its like a shop only spending 20% of money on stock and expecting to be successful.


-------------
Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Why is Gatland doing updates on contract negotiations? Nothing to do with him. Where is the CEO? Chair? 

Agreed

So what's going on ?




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Gats hasn't turned up ..it was due to start at 12.30 ..12.51 no Warren 

So what's happening then font of all knowledge 




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Just seen it myself....ouch ...hopefully they are and make a stand....Rorke's drift, the Battle of Tuthill, of Bryn Glas, Battle of Badon, Battle of Orewin Bridge, Battle of Chester, Hatfield Chase, Battle of St Fagans, fighting the bloody Saxons, Romans, bloody Normans....

Stand together like St David who told his soldiers to wear leaks on their helmets so they could spot each other in Battle, Gwenllian the Welsh warrior Princess and of course Owan Glyndwr....we have always fought for our existence and its in us....to do the right thing.

Shove the Lords and idiots that ruin one of the greatest experiences in rugby, Welsh rugby....hope they make a stand.

That's all i have to say.

Pretty much covered it all there Lofty. Smile

I think I might have added the Battle of Bolgoed Gate in the Bont along with all the other Rebecca Riots and maybe thrown in the Chartist riots for good measure.


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Just seen it myself....ouch ...hopefully they are and make a stand....Rorke's drift, the Battle of Tuthill, of Bryn Glas, Battle of Badon, Battle of Orewin Bridge, Battle of Chester, Hatfield Chase, Battle of St Fagans, fighting the bloody Saxons, Romans, bloody Normans....

Stand together like St David who told his soldiers to wear leaks on their helmets so they could spot each other in Battle, Gwenllian the Welsh warrior Princess and of course Owan Glyndwr....we have always fought for our existence and its in us....to do the right thing.

Shove the Lords and idiots that ruin one of the greatest experiences in rugby, Welsh rugby....hope they make a stand.

That's all i have to say.

Pretty much covered it all there Lofty. Smile

I think I might have added the Battle of Bolgoed Gate in the Bont along with all the other Rebecca Riots and maybe thrown in the Chartist riots for good measure.

Thankyou Sir.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 2:21pm
Gatland: 

"We’re well aware of people overspending. It’s about keeping within our means" "I’m well aware the regions have been living outside of their means a little and that will be addressed"

Is he also aware of the £20m debt the WRU loaded on the regions...

He needs to shut up and keep out of the politics. He's doing nothing to help and his early announcement bid was a clumsy attempt to put pressure on players. Should never have been re-appointed.


-------------
What's going on?


Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Gatland: 

"We’re well aware of people overspending. It’s about keeping within our means" "I’m well aware the regions have been living outside of their means a little and that will be addressed"

Is he also aware of the £20m debt the WRU loaded on the regions...

He needs to shut up and keep out of the politics. He's doing nothing to help and his early announcement bid was a clumsy attempt to put pressure on players. Should never have been re-appointed.
Reading from a script


-------------
N11


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Gatland: 

"We’re well aware of people overspending. It’s about keeping within our means" "I’m well aware the regions have been living outside of their means a little and that will be addressed"

Is he also aware of the £20m debt the WRU loaded on the regions...

He needs to shut up and keep out of the politics. He's doing nothing to help and his early announcement bid was a clumsy attempt to put pressure on players. Should never have been re-appointed.

Thankyou for this totally agree.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Whats of more concern is Gatland saying no Welsh squad training this afternoon or tomorrow. The selected team will just have a Captains run (unless they strike) on Friday. Hardly good preparation for playing England!


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Whats of more concern is Gatland saying no Welsh squad training this afternoon or tomorrow. The selected team will just have a Captains run (unless they strike) on Friday. Hardly good preparation for playing England!

Ominous tbh .




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:14pm
They’ve got a cheek. The WRU insisted on the regions adhering to the salary bands they set. You can be outside the Team Wales 38, not in your region’s best 23, but because you were given a cheap cap the region is forced to pay you a minimum of £110k a season. These new massive squad budget reductions from £7 million a year to £4.5 million a year suggest that the WRU made a ballsup with their banding.

BandSterling
B&I Lions250K – 450K
Seasoned Internationals180K – 300K
Early Internationals110K – 180K
Marquee PlayersUp to 160K
Established Players 40K – 110K
First Pro Contract 20K –  40K
Academy PlayersUp to 20K



Posted By: pillory
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:22pm
Gatland would earn £3.5m over the duration of the six-year agreement http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/everything-know-warren-gatlands-stunning-25676510" rel="nofollow - reported £585,000pa). Best knee-jerk appointment ever.

Wayne Pivac was on a http://www.ruck.co.uk/list-5-highest-paid-head-coaches-in-world-rugby/" rel="nofollow - reported £450,000pa.

Tell me about wage inflation again.


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:23pm
Is Gatland also aware the WRU overspent, especially on him and other coaches.

-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:24pm
Oops I didn't  see your post when I was busy posting

-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?

Agreed there is something askew here .



They can’t afford it because they have wasted £39 million on a vanity project in West gate Street.  They have shown where their priorities lie and unfortunately it’s not rugby or the pro game in Wales.


Posted By: scarletsbeno1
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:26pm
Full on reform needed.
WRU 100 mill business, invested in a hotel and not the grassroots.
Ireland invested in the grass roots and actual people with business credentials in the board room.
They can afford to bring gatland back for 2 mill mind.
Gatland shouldn’t be involved in regional stuff. 


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Team not being announced today ..it was at midday but it's now been cancelled ...gatland announcement at 12.30 ......looks like they are striking 

Whats of more concern is Gatland saying no Welsh squad training this afternoon or tomorrow. The selected team will just have a Captains run (unless they strike) on Friday. Hardly good preparation for playing England!

Even if the players don't strike, I just can't see them giving all on Saturday......and why would they.


-------------
Scarlets!!!


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

Full on reform needed.
WRU 100 mill business, invested in a hotel and not the grassroots.
Ireland invested in the grass roots and actual people with business credentials in the board room.
They can afford to bring gatland back for 2 mill mind.
Gatland shouldn’t be involved in regional stuff. 

Anyone know how much was invested in the Parkgate Hotel? 


-------------
Scarlets!!!


Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

Full on reform needed.
WRU 100 mill business, invested in a hotel and not the grassroots.
Ireland invested in the grass roots and actual people with business credentials in the board room.
They can afford to bring gatland back for 2 mill mind.
Gatland shouldn’t be involved in regional stuff. 

Anyone know how much was invested in the Parkgate Hotel? 

According to the audited accounts £45M of funding has been secured from Legal and General, although it also looks like a further £5M was also borrowed. This sum now represents the majority of WRU current debt. I read in a recent article that the cost of servicing this debt is just under £5M per annum, which coincidently is pretty much the same sum that the WRU want to reduce regional support by.
The obvious solution would be to admit they have made a mistake investing in this hotel in the current challenging market and sell it to repay as much as possible of the debt.


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

Full on reform needed.
WRU 100 mill business, invested in a hotel and not the grassroots.
Ireland invested in the grass roots and actual people with business credentials in the board room.
They can afford to bring gatland back for 2 mill mind.
Gatland shouldn’t be involved in regional stuff. 

Anyone know how much was invested in the Parkgate Hotel? 

According to the audited accounts £45M of funding has been secured from Legal and General, although it also looks like a further £5M was also borrowed. This sum now represents the majority of WRU current debt. I read in a recent article that the cost of servicing this debt is just under £5M per annum, which coincidently is pretty much the same sum that the WRU want to reduce regional support by.
The obvious solution would be to admit they have made a mistake investing in this hotel in the current challenging market and sell it to repay as much as possible of the debt.

Bloody hell, that's nuts ShockedShockedShocked


-------------
Scarlets!!!


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by pillory pillory wrote:

Gatland would earn £3.5m over the duration of the six-year agreement http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/everything-know-warren-gatlands-stunning-25676510" rel="nofollow - reported £585,000pa). Best knee-jerk appointment ever.

Wayne Pivac was on a http://www.ruck.co.uk/list-5-highest-paid-head-coaches-in-world-rugby/" rel="nofollow - reported £450,000pa.

Tell me about wage inflation again.

The World is absolutely bonkers.....it truly is.

Agree about Gatland he's washed out mun. His best years have gone. 

We don't believe in fresh young minds.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Is Gatland also aware the WRU overspent, especially on him and other coaches.

Excellent post.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 4:46pm
I like it. Gloves off and let's see who's got the most dirty washing.



Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 6:36pm
Last week Val would have won as our washing machine went tits up 


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 6:49pm
Gatland was a step back. Have you seen any noticeable improvement from Pivacs tenure. 




Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 6:58pm
Well pivac used to name the team on time 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 8:07pm
Does anyone else find it astounding that Gatland didn’t know that Welsh rugby was in turmoil until he came back in?  Where has he been burying his head all these years.  His grip on the international side and on the WRU during his first long tenure must surely have had some bearing on the current mess.  I get the impression that he was not interested in the nuts and bolts and cost of running the Welsh team as long as his demands were met by the WRU (who gave him everything he demanded without question).
I may be wrong and stand to be corrected by those with better knowledge than myself.


-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 9:26pm
I don’t think he or tbh most people realised just how bad it was.  Test team look
Over the hillThe finances are a mess, players are going to leave in droves, sxism and a toxic culture in wru and now possibly a strike . He expected a challenge and to me he is past his best but this entire shambles seems to have gathered speed at an incredible rate. Have we got a break clause post world cup?


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Does anyone else find it astounding that Gatland didn’t know that Welsh rugby was in turmoil until he came back in?  Where has he been burying his head all these years.  His grip on the international side and on the WRU during his first long tenure must surely have had some bearing on the current mess.  I get the impression that he was not interested in the nuts and bolts and cost of running the Welsh team as long as his demands were met by the WRU (who gave him everything he demanded without question).
I may be wrong and stand to be corrected by those with better knowledge than myself.

Yep I agree.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:38pm
Gatland knew about the problems in Welsh rugby  


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Gatland knew about the problems in Welsh rugby  

He was the headmaster who wanted to control the class and the school.....




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Does anyone else find it astounding that Gatland didn’t know that Welsh rugby was in turmoil until he came back in?  Where has he been burying his head all these years.  His grip on the international side and on the WRU during his first long tenure must surely have had some bearing on the current mess.  I get the impression that he was not interested in the nuts and bolts and cost of running the Welsh team as long as his demands were met by the WRU (who gave him everything he demanded without question).
I may be wrong and stand to be corrected by those with better knowledge than myself.

If I'm being honest, he knew exactly what was going on. This has been going on long enough and during his Reign too, not have any idea as to what is going on. Thumbs Down

From my point of view, the WRU have quickly enjoyed, revelled, soaked up, lathered themselves and absorbed the success of the Welsh team on the pitch. Not thinking twice about the long term future of the entire structure of the Welsh game, and have decided to invest those rewards in the wrong areas (the 'Hotel'....I mean, WT actual F) and in areas that are now coming back to bite them on the arse.

The WRU reappointed Gats as they stupidly thought that the Gats factor would get us an instant result on the pitch to once again paper over the cracks that have only got bigger.......it failed spectacularly.......an absolute hammering. Next up, Scotland........it failed again spectacularly, an absolute hammering Thumbs Down
England next, at home, players have had enough. Even if we do play, I expect another..........hammering 🤦‍♂️

Welsh International Rugby everyone, is well and truly back in the 80's.........enjoy, its going to be a long hard slog this one, and I don't think we have the right resources to get out of it this time Cry


-------------
Scarlets!!!


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Gatland knew about the problems in Welsh rugby  

Absolutely, 100% correct Clap


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Scarlets!!!


Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 21 February 2023 at 11:43pm
WRU thought bringing back Gatland would make things better problems in the game go way deeper than Gatland 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:39am
Somewhat disingenuous of Gatland to suggest he didn't know of anything before he signed. If you follow the timeline he signed around Xmas 2022 having spent the whole of November attending the Autumn Internationals. The clue Warren was that when you arrived in Wales in early January 2023, I think, no contracts had been signed by any professional player out of contract in June 2023.

As he would have been totally aware at least 75% of them would have signed/about to sign in previous years. If that wasn't a huge clue I don't know what is. 


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 12:28pm
I’ll agree with the WRU tut Non-rugby income is hugely important to help fund the Union, I’ll agree with that, but borrowing a huge sum of money at extortionate rates to throw on a posh hotel was clearly not the answer. They generate £100m a year, so could just make lots of small investments with the money they have in the bank ffs at less risk and with no loans to pay back.

 If the clubs need to make more money themselves  How about starting by getting all clubs (not just the regions) access to some experts in how to market themselves and generate more money themselves? 

WRU created the issues, now want to victim blame everyone else to avoid responsibility. Gats is a corporate shill and won’t be going against the hand that pays him. I honestly think the WRU thought the benefactors (yep the ones they wanted out of the regions) would just step in and pick up the tab with no fuss. 

Now I see the Ealing Ospreyfinders might be a thing soon, whatever issues they have with the RFU survey the WRU can’t be a better option ? 

Burn it all to the ground I say, then let’s gather up a group of SF members to run a new Union. That totally won’t have a west bias wink wink 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

I’ll agree with the WRU tut Non-rugby income is hugely important to help fund the Union, I’ll agree with that, but borrowing a huge sum of money at extortionate rates to throw on a posh hotel was clearly not the answer. They generate £100m a year, so could just make lots of small investments with the money they have in the bank ffs at less risk and with no loans to pay back.

 If the clubs need to make more money themselves  How about starting by getting all clubs (not just the regions) access to some experts in how to market themselves and generate more money themselves? 

WRU created the issues, now want to victim blame everyone else to avoid responsibility. Gats is a corporate shill and won’t be going against the hand that pays him. I honestly think the WRU thought the benefactors (yep the ones they wanted out of the regions) would just step in and pick up the tab with no fuss. 

Now I see the Ealing Ospreyfinders might be a thing soon, whatever issues they have with the RFU survey the WRU can’t be a better option ? 

Burn it all to the ground I say, then let’s gather up a group of SF members to run a new Union. That totally won’t have a west bias wink wink 
A selection from the Joint Supporters Group will ensure at least it gets the backing of all 4 groups of fansWink

-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: John
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 1:09pm
There's alot more business acumen, governance experience and down to earth common sense on here than in the corridors of the WRU offices......


Posted By: philturk
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 2:05pm
That's not saying much! The WRU have failed on many levels and yet the gravy train / jobs for the boys continues

The demands from the players to avoid strike action don't go far enough. The first priority needs to be to secure adequate funding for the Regions, without this they are merely papering over the cracks


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

If the clubs need to make more money themselves  How about starting by getting all clubs (not just the regions) access to some experts in how to market themselves and generate more money themselves?
The 4 pro clubs, certainly for the past decade, have had their own marketing strategies. Whenever they tried to work together and share resources, which they have explored at various junctures, it tended to underline how different and disparate they are - there was disappointingly little common ground, and ultimately there was insufficient trust to share resources resources.

The Scarlets strategy was to build up a large number of smaller local sponsors, whereas Cardiff & Ospreys favoured a smaller number with greater reliance on one or two major backers (eg - Land Rover at CAP). This led to our playing shirts becoming a patchwork of sponsors' logos, something which I had no problem with - it was less efficient, having to service a much greater number of smaller sponsors, but it was true to Scarlets' role as a community club, with many successful local businesses wanting to contribute to and be a part of.

The key point, when I delved into the club's marketing operations and budgets, was that any additional £30k in the business was, it was believed, better invested into an extra Academy player than being allocated to market the club or the upcoming games or non-rugby events at Parc y Scarlets. This was a huge shock to our previous CEO who was used to being smart with lower Marketing budgets (albeit higher R&D investment, a bit of a parallel) than his competitors, but then had pennies to work with in Llanelli. Shocked

The situation is tougher still now, with much-reduced post-pandemic commercial & marketing resource trying to deliver on social media & marketing goals on half a shoestring. The fact is that sustained success is the driver to filling the Parc and getting sponsors to swell the coffers, and that requires long-term certainty and a competitive budget, both of which are things we can only currently dream about.

It's a fair point to challenge all clubs - pro & am - to generate more of their own revenue in more imaginative ways, but you first have to have clarity on the shortfall you're trying to fill, and that comes back to the absence of a player supply model from the Union for the immediate future. Confused


Posted By: Llanelliman
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 4:12pm
The Demise of Welsh Rugby.
Welsh Rugby to be consigned to the history books !


-------------
Made in Seaside, Llanelli


Posted By: Kentexile
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 4:13pm
I suppose one of the issues with joint marketing is the regions all have separate identities but that doesn’t stop them seeing if there is a better deal in jointly procuring one agency than doing their own thing. Same across a range of things the regions and the WRU need e.g payroll , grounds maintenance, catering and hospitality etc where a single provider for each area for the 4 regions and the WRU may give economies of scale and better pricing, I doubt it would save the world but every little helps.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 5:31pm
The main meeting has concluded and no deal.

Sheriff and Nigel Walker discussing if England game will go ahead.




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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: stevey
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 6:04pm
Game is going ahead according to BBC and Sky sports


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by stevey stevey wrote:

Game is going ahead according to BBC and Sky sports
I’d be inclined to await a more reliable source closer to the parties in dispute.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 6:59pm
Ken was speaking and confirmed the game will be on.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:06pm
I hope the players haven't folded....this is their only opportunity to sort things out 


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:12pm
Most of what the players wanted looks to be agreed. 60 cap rule is now 25 cap rule. Contracts can now be singed from next week (which was the big one).
Earnings will be constrained, but that wasn't the main thrust of the grievance.


Posted By: philtheturk56
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:23pm
peter jackson on BBc wales, was suggesting that the WRU need to look at reducing the number of regions, to costly, compared it with footy, only 3 clubs in wales, and footy has a bigger following. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by philtheturk56 philtheturk56 wrote:

peter jackson on BBc wales, was suggesting that the WRU need to look at reducing the number of regions, to costly, compared it with footy, only 3 clubs in wales, and footy has a bigger following. 

This will happen within 3 or 4 seasons. It's the only way forward. 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:55pm
I say do it now , no point in this lymbo 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 7:56pm
So are we any clearer about the direction Welsh rugby is going
What is the Mission Statement of the WRU ? What is their long term goal for the international side?  for example, top four in the world, finish in the top two in six nations? Win the Grand Slam again. Semi finals of World Cup?
If they have a Mission  Statement and long term goals  do they have a feasible plan to achieve it? How do they develop the game and bring young players through?  Do they have the right structure and people in place to achieve it.?  Are they able to wrest control away from the member clubs?
Answers on a postcard.......


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Keep the faith


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 22 February 2023 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

So are we any clearer about the direction Welsh rugby is going
What is the Mission Statement of the WRU ? What is their long term goal for the international side?  for example, top four in the world, finish in the top two in six nations? Win the Grand Slam again. Semi finals of World Cup?
If they have a Mission  Statement and long term goals  do they have a feasible plan to achieve it? How do they develop the game and bring young players through?  Do they have the right structure and people in place to achieve it.?  Are they able to wrest control away from the member clubs?
Answers on a postcard.......


Mission Statement WRU .

1) Let's get pissed and have the best of everything cos we are the bosses.

2) Employ Ladies to be ethically correct but chase them everywhere around the ground and have a squeeze with a gin

3) Let the regions do all the hard work and the pay them pittance for their privilege to serve us.

4) Promise to invest all the money the dumb Welsh public pay to come to our hallowed plastic turf on pallets on ridiculous prices.

5) Promise to care about all rugby supporters and grass roots and plough zero into it.

6) Pay the CEO a fortune for doing zilch but looking good wearing a tie and pulling faces and women.

7) Go everywhere on global missions to develop the Welsh game but its all freebies and piss ups and the occasional escort thrown in

8) On H & S we will stop all alcohol drinks after half time as the piss head public can't hold it, but we will carry on cos it's free.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 23 February 2023 at 7:19am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

So are we any clearer about the direction Welsh rugby is going
What is the Mission Statement of the WRU ? What is their long term goal for the international side?  for example, top four in the world, finish in the top two in six nations? Win the Grand Slam again. Semi finals of World Cup?
If they have a Mission  Statement and long term goals  do they have a feasible plan to achieve it? How do they develop the game and bring young players through?  Do they have the right structure and people in place to achieve it.?  Are they able to wrest control away from the member clubs?
Answers on a postcard.......

http://crys16.cymru/2022/02/13/my-goal-is-to-have-a-goal/" rel="nofollow - http://crys16.cymru/2022/02/13/my-goal-is-to-have-a-goal/



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 February 2023 at 8:00am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

So are we any clearer about the direction Welsh rugby is going
What is the Mission Statement of the WRU ? What is their long term goal for the international side?  for example, top four in the world, finish in the top two in six nations? Win the Grand Slam again. Semi finals of World Cup?
If they have a Mission  Statement and long term goals  do they have a feasible plan to achieve it? How do they develop the game and bring young players through?  Do they have the right structure and people in place to achieve it.?  Are they able to wrest control away from the member clubs?
Answers on a postcard.......

http://crys16.cymru/2022/02/13/my-goal-is-to-have-a-goal/" rel="nofollow - http://crys16.cymru/2022/02/13/my-goal-is-to-have-a-goal/


Thanks for that, quite useful. So in conclusion, the WRU's stated aims are vague and their own measures of progress, wholly lacking ... in short the WRU would fail an ESTYN inspection Ouch


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 23 February 2023 at 8:02am
Yep, and their only publicly available strategy document is 6 years old.



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