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Topic: Johnson
Posted By: scarletpimp
Subject: Johnson
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 3:17am
Looks like our friend  has almost got away' Scott free', while we have been discussing  other things. 
Did'nt see the committee  hearing  on the live stream, just on the evening news.
I would like to know other forum members views of how they feel how convincing he was?
Clearly experienced  politicians  like Harriet Harman, and Bernard Jenkin, are neither ging to be cowed by Johnson's bluster or fooled .
Their job is clear.They are not deciding whether  or not there were illegal gatherings in no 10, during lockdown.Everyone knows law breaking was rampant in Downing st.
The committee 's Job is to judge whether his denialswere the result  of innocent  misapprehension Wink,  about the lockdiwn busting that went on in No 10,or whether he told deliberate  lies to MP's.
The verdict the committee is  leaving towards, seems clear from its interim report, published,  a fortnight ago.
Evidence  has been gathered  independently of the Sue Gray enquiry, and many witnesses  statements have already  been given 
The evidence  concluded  that it would have been obvious  to Johnson , that the law was being flouted inside no 10, especially  as he himself was present at rule -busting parties! 
Witness  testimonials him telling one packed gathering, inside the building,  which took place when lock down restrictions  were very strict,  that it was "probably  the most socially  undistanced  gathering  in the UK right now."
Johnson has of course  argued that these were genuine work events
, and within the rules.

The judgement  will hinge on the wording,  and whether they feel Johnson has "recklessly " mis-led MP's , or has "knowingly  mis-led Parliament. 

What is clear,is that the foundations  of democracy is destroyed, if ministers think they can deliberately  get  away  with  misleading MP's.
When those in power think they can deceive with impunity,  it becomes impossible  for Parliament  to do its job.
That is hideously corrosive for democracy, and public  faith in it.
This is why it is so essential that the penalties  for lying  to Parliament,  must  be steep., particularly when the perpetrator has lied,and on a grave issue,from the highest office in the land. 
If there was a by election  in Uxbridge  and South  Ruislip ATM, forecasts  suggest  he would pose by a hefty margin. 
Humiliation  complete! 






-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank



Replies:
Posted By: Kentexile
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 6:53am
Interesting point made on question time that a millionaire like Johnson is given hundreds of thousands of 
Pounds of public money to hire one of the most expensive barristers in the country to defend him whilst more and more people are being denied access to legal aid.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 9:41am
I watched/listened to almost all of it and I will say Johnson was in his element, waffling on in an attempt to obfuscate and escape any responsibility for breaking the rules and then lying about it afterwards. A lifetime of practice, no doubt.

In any case, his arguments were:

1. He did not know or have any control over what was going on in Downing St.
2. The gatherings (and breaking the restrictions) were 100% work events.
3. It was an essential part of his job to attend leaving dos.
4. Leaving drinks were actually fine under the restrictions; it was down to individual employers to decide.
5. No advisor ever told him any events broke restrictions.

During the enquiry my assessment is:

1. He is trying to play ignorance and incompetence. Goes against taking "full responsibility". He also was very happy to drop other names into the mix, Sunak in particular.
2. The committee revealed this to be a lie: his wife and interior designer were at an event. 
3. Many of us could not do all aspects of our jobs, he did not justify why he was an exception to this. 
4. I do not recall this at all and this is another lie.
5. There is evidence of his advisors implying they are well-aware restrictions were broken. It is hard to think they did not tell him their opinions so my view is this was another lie. There may well be no direct evidence he was told, however, which is what he is relying on.

His continued comment was at all times he "believed" he was being honest in the HoC yet it was only subsequent revelations that revealed these statements to be incorrect. So, at first glance this seems hard to challenge... But of course we do not rely upon unchallengeable personal beliefs as any form of evidence. But what will the committee do? There is no smoking gun so he will likely escape the most severe punishment. Yet he has in fact lied to them, presented himself as incompetent and unable to accept any responsibility where they observed the advisors he quoted were clearly not reliable plus undermined the committee itself: none of which go in his favour. Two Tories, Jenkin and de Costa seemed unimpressed, which may tilt the balance, and I think reckless behaviour can be justified. At the very least, Johnson has presented clear evidence that he did not have enough information to make the statements he did. Even if he tries to blame his advisors for this prepared line in the HoC, the fact he himself was at numerous gatherings severely undermines his ignorance plea, meaning I do think negligence is the minimum finding. As to what punishment this would occur in the intricacies of politics, I am unsure, but it will be interesting to see. 


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 10:29am
Watched a good programme last night about another liar Jeffrey Archer and I hope what goes around comes around for Johnson Archer could have been Boris's mentor such was his capacity for lying.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 11:18am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I watched/listened to almost all of it and I will say Johnson was in his element, waffling on in an attempt to obfuscate and escape any responsibility for breaking the rules and then lying about it afterwards. A lifetime of practice, no doubt.

In any case, his arguments were:

1. He did not know or have any control over what was going on in Downing St.
2. The gatherings (and breaking the restrictions) were 100% work events.
3. It was an essential part of his job to attend leaving dos.
4. Leaving drinks were actually fine under the restrictions; it was down to individual employers to decide.
5. No advisor ever told him any events broke restrictions.

During the enquiry my assessment is:

1. He is trying to play ignorance and incompetence. Goes against taking "full responsibility". He also was very happy to drop other names into the mix, Sunak in particular.
2. The committee revealed this to be a lie: his wife and interior designer were at an event. 
3. Many of us could not do all aspects of our jobs, he did not justify why he was an exception to this. 
4. I do not recall this at all and this is another lie.
5. There is evidence of his advisors implying they are well-aware restrictions were broken. It is hard to think they did not tell him their opinions so my view is this was another lie. There may well be no direct evidence he was told, however, which is what he is relying on.

His continued comment was at all times he "believed" he was being honest in the HoC yet it was only subsequent revelations that revealed these statements to be incorrect. So, at first glance this seems hard to challenge... But of course we do not rely upon unchallengeable personal beliefs as any form of evidence. But what will the committee do? There is no smoking gun so he will likely escape the most severe punishment. Yet he has in fact lied to them, presented himself as incompetent and unable to accept any responsibility where they observed the advisors he quoted were clearly not reliable plus undermined the committee itself: none of which go in his favour. Two Tories, Jenkin and de Costa seemed unimpressed, which may tilt the balance, and I think reckless behaviour can be justified. At the very least, Johnson has presented clear evidence that he did not have enough information to make the statements he did. Even if he tries to blame his advisors for this prepared line in the HoC, the fact he himself was at numerous gatherings severely undermines his ignorance plea, meaning I do think negligence is the minimum finding. As to what punishment this would occur in the intricacies of politics, I am unsure, but it will be interesting to see. 

As usual an exexcellent  assessment by the Dr. Thanks!
The key statement here is" negligence is the minimum  finding", due to the evidence the evidence  the Dr has indicated,  plus all the witnesses  statements gathered  by the Privileges  Committee,  which are contrary  to Johnson's  own statements.
Preston thinks he's finished,  but he can go on making,millions at speaking events  and continue denying  he ever fund anything  wrong.
The worry  for me is that some of the public in his constituency  STILL back him , despite  everything! Proves that public opinion jn UK cannot be trusted,  whatever polls tell us now.
Greasy Sunakk still fancy his chances at the polls !


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 11:19am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I watched/listened to almost all of it and I will say Johnson was in his element, waffling on in an attempt to obfuscate and escape any responsibility for breaking the rules and then lying about it afterwards. A lifetime of practice, no doubt.

In any case, his arguments were:

1. He did not know or have any control over what was going on in Downing St.
2. The gatherings (and breaking the restrictions) were 100% work events.
3. It was an essential part of his job to attend leaving dos.
4. Leaving drinks were actually fine under the restrictions; it was down to individual employers to decide.
5. No advisor ever told him any events broke restrictions.

During the enquiry my assessment is:

1. He is trying to play ignorance and incompetence. Goes against taking "full responsibility". He also was very happy to drop other names into the mix, Sunak in particular.
2. The committee revealed this to be a lie: his wife and interior designer were at an event. 
3. Many of us could not do all aspects of our jobs, he did not justify why he was an exception to this. 
4. I do not recall this at all and this is another lie.
5. There is evidence of his advisors implying they are well-aware restrictions were broken. It is hard to think they did not tell him their opinions so my view is this was another lie. There may well be no direct evidence he was told, however, which is what he is relying on.

His continued comment was at all times he "believed" he was being honest in the HoC yet it was only subsequent revelations that revealed these statements to be incorrect. So, at first glance this seems hard to challenge... But of course we do not rely upon unchallengeable personal beliefs as any form of evidence. But what will the committee do? There is no smoking gun so he will likely escape the most severe punishment. Yet he has in fact lied to them, presented himself as incompetent and unable to accept any responsibility where they observed the advisors he quoted were clearly not reliable plus undermined the committee itself: none of which go in his favour. Two Tories, Jenkin and de Costa seemed unimpressed, which may tilt the balance, and I think reckless behaviour can be justified. At the very least, Johnson has presented clear evidence that he did not have enough information to make the statements he did. Even if he tries to blame his advisors for this prepared line in the HoC, the fact he himself was at numerous gatherings severely undermines his ignorance plea, meaning I do think negligence is the minimum finding. As to what punishment this would occur in the intricacies of politics, I am unsure, but it will be interesting to see. 

Jenkin also made the point that Johnson should have sought legal advice on whether gatherings were legal. Johnson failed to do that. Clearly therefore, it was reckless to make statements that he knew may not be true. I think that this issue will be his downfall. There was also an issue where he said he took advice from an adviser, but refused to disclose the name of the adviser. That was very 'convenient'.

I think that Tory MP's are now getting a little fed up of him. The clue to that came in the vote on the Windsor Agreement. Only 22 voted against. ERG voted against it. Steve Baker, long a staunch ERG member has been thrown out, basically for failing to support the ERG and the DUP.

Johnson's mysoginistic side was clear to be seen. He was furious when Harman, a woman, told him not to interrupt a questioner, and also told him to make his answers more succinct.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 11:36am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Looks like our friend  has almost got away' Scott free', while we have been discussing  other things. 
Did'nt see the committee  hearing  on the live stream, just on the evening news.
I would like to know other forum members views of how they feel how convincing he was?
Clearly experienced  politicians  like Harriet Harman, and Bernard Jenkin, are neither ging to be cowed by Johnson's bluster or fooled .
Their job is clear.They are not deciding whether  or not there were illegal gatherings in no 10, during lockdown.Everyone knows law breaking was rampant in Downing st.
The committee 's Job is to judge whether his denialswere the result  of innocent  misapprehension Wink,  about the lockdiwn busting that went on in No 10,or whether he told deliberate  lies to MP's.
The verdict the committee is  leaving towards, seems clear from its interim report, published,  a fortnight ago.
Evidence  has been gathered  independently of the Sue Gray enquiry, and many witnesses  statements have already  been given 
The evidence  concluded  that it would have been obvious  to Johnson , that the law was being flouted inside no 10, especially  as he himself was present at rule -busting parties! 
Witness  testimonials him telling one packed gathering, inside the building,  which took place when lock down restrictions  were very strict,  that it was "probably  the most socially  undistanced  gathering  in the UK right now."
Johnson has of course  argued that these were genuine work events
, and within the rules.

The judgement  will hinge on the wording,  and whether they feel Johnson has "recklessly " mis-led MP's , or has "knowingly  mis-led Parliament. 

What is clear,is that the foundations  of democracy is destroyed, if ministers think they can deliberately  get  away  with  misleading MP's.
When those in power think they can deceive with impunity,  it becomes impossible  for Parliament  to do its job.
That is hideously corrosive for democracy, and public  faith in it.
This is why it is so essential that the penalties  for lying  to Parliament,  must  be steep., particularly when the perpetrator has lied,and on a grave issue,from the highest office in the land. 
If there was a by election  in Uxbridge  and South  Ruislip ATM, forecasts  suggest  he would pose by a hefty margin. 
Humiliation  complete! 

Let's hope there will be a by-election and a unity candidate in Uxbridge very soon. Also hope in the long term to see written constitutions for our nations which includes an unequivocal legal basis by which politicians can be held to account when they lie in parliament. At the moment, the system is too wishy washy. Am I right in saying that the PM is the ultimate arbiter or is that just ministers? I know that Plaid Cymru proposed a Bill to make lying in Parliament a legal offence.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 11:42am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Watched a good programme last night about another liar Jeffrey Archer and I hope what goes around comes around for Johnson Archer could have been Boris's mentor such was his capacity for lying.
hopefully hell end up in the same hmp as archer!Wink


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 12:01pm
think i would vote for Boris again , just saying hes seems a nice guy , probably we would all enjoy his company Big smile


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 1:00pm
I am sure there are many gut - wrenching  stories from many here on SF, during  that period  of the pandemic,  when people were dying alone, without a loving  family  member  to hold their hand. People experiencing  mental health  issues during lockdown.
Everyone  struggling .
At the same time industrial  scale parties occurring  at no10, which the prime minister clearly had knowledge  of , describing them,  as "work events ".
 He was complicit in attending  several,  for he was fined.

This is my story. 
A friend of mine, with a long track record of NHS service as a matron,  had just retired  prior to the pandemic.
She returned, as she saw it as her duty, to work on the void wards.
Full PPE for 10/12 hrs shifts, sometimes exhausted,  would return home emotionally  fraught.
Her mother was in a care home, which from the earliest  days of tye pandemic had a  losed door policy.
Sadly  the mother become ill, and the last goobye, was from the outside  of the home, through a glass window.
I could'nt support my friend as obviously,  I was locked down  looking after my wife.
Shortly after this tragedy,  my friend lost  a colleague, to Covid ,  another dedicated  nurse, wh also had returned to the front line, as she thought it was her duty. She paid the price.

When I see Johnson,arrogant  and blustering, is it little wonder it makes my blood boil.

Let's hope he gets what he deserves,  but I wouldn't hold my breath. 
Not known as the " the greasy piglet for nothing " !





-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 1:00pm
He's earned 6 million since not being PM.....its a paying game politics 




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 1:22pm
The committee should be aware of public outcry over this if they decide no punishment, but he has already been fined for breaking regulations and this is about whether he lied to the house or was simply wrong by no fault of his own. That does remind me of something else: at one point he said or implied how confused he was to receive a fine, indicating he still does not accept wrongdoing. He is a person who truly thinks the rules do not apply to him, always has been. But there were over 100 fines in Downing St, indicating a systemic problem that was not just him. I actually believe he did not organise any gathering himself because he could not organise a pissup in a brewery, which is essentially what Downing St was during his "leadership". 


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The committee should be aware of public outcry over this if they decide no punishment, but he has already been fined for breaking regulations and this is about whether he lied to the house or was simply wrong by no fault of his own. That does remind me of something else: at one point he said or implied how confused he was to receive a fine, indicating he still does not accept wrongdoing. He is a person who truly thinks the rules do not apply to him, always has been. But there were over 100 fines in Downing St, indicating a systemic problem that was not just him. I actually believe he did not organise any gathering himself because he could not organise a pissup in a brewery, which is essentially what Downing St was during his "leadership". 


He was talking utter garbage....layed out his argument that it was ludicrous to " convict him of anything other than ignorance.  He is so far up his own @rse it was gringy......watched it all and in the last 30 mins he was losing it ......for me it was all about people in this country not being able to say goodbye to family that had died or were dying while he and his extremely hard working partying Number 10 DESERVED a drink and a get together and eff the Country.

I'm not allowed to drink wine or spirits in work...instant dismissal....anyone else on here during working hours have a tipple ???




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 2:06pm
This committee have to throw the book at this muppet. If they don't it will send completely the wrong message to our politicians that being conservative with the truth is acceptable behaviour for our prime ministers & clearly that is unacceptable. 

Being PM should convey to the voting public that the person has the required gravitas for the post which includes the necessary intelligence to know when one is having a party which has been forbidden for the rest of the country due to a Worldwide pandemic. 


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The committee should be aware of public outcry over this if they decide no punishment, but he has already been fined for breaking regulations and this is about whether he lied to the house or was simply wrong by no fault of his own. That does remind me of something else: at one point he said or implied how confused he was to receive a fine, indicating he still does not accept wrongdoing. He is a person who truly thinks the rules do not apply to him, always has been. But there were over 100 fines in Downing St, indicating a systemic problem that was not just him. I actually believe he did not organise any gathering himself because he could not organise a pissup in a brewery, which is essentially what Downing St was during his "leadership". 


He was talking utter garbage....layed out his argument that it was ludicrous to " convict him of anything other than ignorance.  He is so far up his own @rse it was gringy......watched it all and in the last 30 mins he was losing it ......for me it was all about people in this country not being able to say goodbye to family that had died or were dying while he and his extremely hard working partying Number 10 DESERVED a drink and a get together and eff the Country.

I'm not allowed to drink wine or spirits in work...instant dismissal....anyone else on here during working hours have a tipple ???



I was on night shift in Trostre the night we won the 2005 Grand Slam. I'd had a couple of pints watching the game and was worrying a bit about turning up to work. Needn't have worried in the slightest. All the pulpits were stacked with slabs of lager LOL

Not an everyday occurence mind you Wink


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The committee should be aware of public outcry over this if they decide no punishment, but he has already been fined for breaking regulations and this is about whether he lied to the house or was simply wrong by no fault of his own. That does remind me of something else: at one point he said or implied how confused he was to receive a fine, indicating he still does not accept wrongdoing. He is a person who truly thinks the rules do not apply to him, always has been. But there were over 100 fines in Downing St, indicating a systemic problem that was not just him. I actually believe he did not organise any gathering himself because he could not organise a pissup in a brewery, which is essentially what Downing St was during his "leadership". 


He was talking utter garbage....layed out his argument that it was ludicrous to " convict him of anything other than ignorance.  He is so far up his own @rse it was gringy......watched it all and in the last 30 mins he was losing it ......for me it was all about people in this country not being able to say goodbye to family that had died or were dying while he and his extremely hard working partying Number 10 DESERVED a drink and a get together and eff the Country.

I'm not allowed to drink wine or spirits in work...instant dismissal....anyone else on here during working hours have a tipple ???



I was on night shift in Trostre the night we won the 2005 Grand Slam. I'd had a couple of pints watching the game and was worrying a bit about turning up to work. Needn't have worried in the slightest. All the pulpits were stacked with slabs of lager LOL

Not an everyday occurence mind you Wink

Despicable LOL




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 3:39pm
Hancock needs to be dragged over the coals in a similar way and the whole covid contract cover ups need to be thoroughly exposed as do all those who profiteered from it. Get these crooks to pay the blood money back too, the threat of exposure may pressurise them into it...All the money they made will never buy back their soul

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

This committee have to throw the book at this muppet. If they don't it will send completely the wrong message to our politicians that being conservative with the truth is acceptable behaviour for our prime ministers & clearly that is unacceptable. 

Being PM should convey to the voting public that the person has the required gravitas for the post which includes the necessary intelligence to know when one is having a party which has been forbidden for the rest of the country due to a Worldwide pandemic. 

"Being Conservative with the truth." LOL



Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 6:32pm
Clap


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 10:24pm
I was reading earlier, that security staff in number 10 were abused during various partygate parties.
Drunk individuals, who were  asked to  and be socially distant were told to" f off", there was vomit ,even knickers found there.

The question  therefore, to Johnson,  is how the he'll  could these  parties be described  by him as " WORK ORIENTATED".??
Just another lie,  which implicates Johnson in his Web of deceit. 
.


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Hancock needs to be dragged over the coals in a similar way and the whole covid contract cover ups need to be thoroughly exposed as do all those who profiteered from it. Get these crooks to pay the blood money back too, the threat of exposure may pressurise them into it...All the money they made will never buy back their soul


Roy seriously these idiots do not have souls.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 24 March 2023 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I was reading earlier, that security staff in number 10 were abused during various partygate parties.
Drunk individuals, who were  asked to  and be socially distant were told to" f off", there was vomit ,even knickers found there.

The question  therefore, to Johnson,  is how the he'll  could these  parties be described  by him as " WORK ORIENTATED".??
Just another lie,  which implicates Johnson in his Web of deceit. 
.

Yep they have been abusing staff for the last 12 poxy years.




-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 09 June 2023 at 10:34pm
Boris stands down as MP with immediate effect.  
He’s seen the findings of the parliamentary enquiry into whether he mislead parliament over partygate and he’s jumped before being being forced out via a ban and subsequent by-election.
He hasn’t gone quietly or with any dignity, he blamed the enquiry as a witch-hunt (even though there were more Tory members on it) and tried to claim that the Tory party were in a far better state in the polls when he left than they have been under Truss and Sunak - who is another one that Boris has blamed for his downfall.
The guy has no morals or dignity - he won a landslide election based on a promise to get brexit done (but that was based on a load of false hopes and untruths), but has subsequently been entrenched in sleeve and coverups and yet more untruths about lockdown which has finally seen him jump ship before facing the indignity of walking the plank.
As some ministers (in opposition I must add) have stated this evening- he was not fit to stand as an MP let alone as prime minister, and that people will not lose any sleep over tonight’s news.
It’s ironic that only this afternoon he submitted his honours list, with everyone who supported him throughout his debatable tenure as PM.
He now leaves Sunak in a very difficult position with at least 2 by-elections and the party embroiled in even more unwanted headlines.
Perhaps he will now go and join his mate across the pond - who today found out that he will be facing federal charges over his withholding / keeping of official Whitehouse documentation.  The both have this unedifying idea that they are privileged and are untouchable and that they are both being witch-hunted, as they have never done anything wrong in their lives.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 3:40am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Boris stands down as MP with immediate effect.  
He’s seen the findings of the parliamentary enquiry into whether he mislead parliament over partygate and he’s jumped before being being forced out via a ban and subsequent by-election.
He hasn’t gone quietly or with any dignity, he blamed the enquiry as a witch-hunt (even though there were more Tory members on it) and tried to claim that the Tory party were in a far better state in the polls when he left than they have been under Truss and Sunak - who is another one that Boris has blamed for his downfall.
The guy has no morals or dignity - he won a landslide election based on a promise to get brexit done (but that was based on a load of false hopes and untruths), but has subsequently been entrenched in sleeve and coverups and yet more untruths about lockdown which has finally seen him jump ship before facing the indignity of walking the plank.
As some ministers (in opposition I must add) have stated this evening- he was not fit to stand as an MP let alone as prime minister, and that people will not lose any sleep over tonight’s news.
It’s ironic that only this afternoon he submitted his honours list, with everyone who supported him throughout his debatable tenure as PM.
He now leaves Sunak in a very difficult position with at least 2 by-elections and the party embroiled in even more unwanted headlines.
Perhaps he will now go and join his mate across the pond - who today found out that he will be facing federal charges over his withholding / keeping of official Whitehouse documentation.  The both have this unedifying idea that they are privileged and are untouchable and that they are both being witch-hunted, as they have never done anything wrong in their lives.

As usual...excellent post from legend, covering all the salient points.
It's totally par for the course, that the scumbag Johnson, is as legend indicates above, is attempting to avoid sanctions, because of his continual cheating and lying has now caught up with him !
Other than Trump , i am struggling to find many individuals less worthy of serving their country.
Both men display brazen arrogance, blaming everyone else for their  failings .
History with judge them , not just as incompetent cretins, but as utterly miserable pathetic human beings.

It beggars belief however that both men command support , not just from within their respective parties, but within the public at large. I have met one or two Trump followers on holiday, both claiming that the last US election was a fraud in every state. i left the idiots with a clear  indication of my feelings. Similarly many Tory grassroots members love Johnson, and would like him back.
This may be sooner than later, and possibly is why another odious character, Nadine Dorries, and big Johnson ally, has conveniently vacated her safe seat. Anything is possible with Tories, but there is a clear attempt now is for Johnson and his allies to bring down Sunak, and then reform, even if its in opposition.
Watch this space now, as I am sure , there is a lot more to come.
Nothing better ,than "open warfare" in the Tory partyLOL !



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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 6:56am
I feel relief. Both he and Trump have undermined my belief that country leaders, at least of the Western world, were always of decent and high standing.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 8:21am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I feel relief. Both he and Trump have undermined my belief that country leaders, at least of the Western world, were always of decent and high standing.

Now there is a novel thought. A pretty solid statement on the face of it. What I really find perplexing is the amount of support both these individuals command even when they are shown to be shall we say less than trustworthy. Am I missing something I question? 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 8:31am
Some of my trust in politics has at least been restored as it would have been utterly terrible if he would have been found innocent. I watched his entire defence and he was pathetic, playing the total ignorance card along with supreme arrogance. I noticed he was particularly condescending towards Harman. 

It should also not be forgotten what triggered his cabinet resigning en mass: he knowingly appointed an alleged sexual predator to a position of power over colleagues. Then he lied about what he knew, changing the story only when new evidence came to light. His ministers finally got fed up having to lie on his behalf only because their own lies were exposed by the story changing so rapidly.

And, in a lighter note, three or perhaps four of the funniest words you'll ever hear together: Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg. Knighted for his achievements in... er... his contribution towards... um.... 

Guess we know who was the "giver" in BJ's office now.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 10:52am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Some of my trust in politics has at least been restored as it would have been utterly terrible if he would have been found innocent. I watched his entire defence and he was pathetic, playing the total ignorance card along with supreme arrogance. I noticed he was particularly condescending towards Harman. 

It should also not be forgotten what triggered his cabinet resigning en mass: he knowingly appointed an alleged sexual predator to a position of power over colleagues. Then he lied about what he knew, changing the story only when new evidence came to light. His ministers finally got fed up having to lie on his behalf only because their own lies were exposed by the story changing so rapidly.

And, in a lighter note, three or perhaps four of the funniest words you'll ever hear together: Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg. Knighted for his achievements in... er... his contribution towards... um.... 

Guess we know who was the "giver" in BJ's office now.
Excellent  post DrM.
I also saw his pathetic defence in front of the Stabdards Committee. 
Typical Johnson...all blustering hot air!
It's good you remind us about appointing a serial sexual predator to office, then continuously  changing his story and lying. He did the same when Hancock was rumbled, changed  his story , and eventually  having to sack him.Lying about party gate,and his involvement,  lying about the refurbishment  of the flat at Downing  St,  again changing his story. He 's like a naughty schoolboy being caught out continuously,  then embarrassing himself ,and his associates,  with layers of lies.
How this shallow ,deceitful   cretin ever got to high office is a miracle, particularly  when you read interviews  with former teachers,  univ 
tutors, and his contemporaries..,HE HAS'NT CHANGED !



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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 10 June 2023 at 2:07pm
He got to where he did by virtue of his ability to persuade the masses that not only can he talk the talk but walk the walk. 
however, despite this special ability, he has proven yet again that his promises (mostly broken) and policies are very short on the details.
He’s a marmite figure, you either love him or hate him, unfortunately enough people like his jack the lad, non conformist persona that he can still command a sizeable following.
Those followers who have chosen to step down as MPs have done so as they know that they will never get ministerial positions under the current Tory regime.  It also shows that they are only in politics for personal gain and not for their constituents - who now have to go through a by-election.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 12:32am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

He got to where he did by virtue of his ability to persuade the masses that not only can he talk the talk but walk the walk. 
however, despite this special ability, he has proven yet again that his promises (mostly broken) and policies are very short on the details.
He’s a marmite figure, you either love him or hate him, unfortunately enough people like his jack the lad, non conformist persona that he can still command a sizeable following.
Those followers who have chosen to step down as MPs have done so as they know that they will never get ministerial positions under the current Tory regime.  It also shows that they are only in politics for personal gain and not for their constituents - who now have to go through a by-election.

Exactly..Legend..personal gain, but as you say, its incredible  how many are STILL taken in by the shyster
You would think there would be universal condemnation...but no!
The 10 o 'clock news tonight, uncovered gullible fools on the streets of UK, still happy to support  him ! 
It's the same in the US, with Trump, but 10 times worse. 
It was mentioned  on a satirical  programme,  a few weeks ago,  that in future, before you are allowed to vote ,people should 
undergo a basic intelligence  test ( like a driving test )LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 6:39am
Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 9:32am
But we need to get rid of the first past the post ..PR is a system that allows true democracy to exist ....



Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 10:41am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 

But only if you have the right form of ID in England.  If you don’t have the right form of ID, you can’t vote for the opposition.

I just hope that when the report into whether he mislead parliament (I think we all know the answer to that) is released on Monday, it recommends that he’s banned from running as an MP again.
As long as he’s able to return to politics there’s always a risk that he could return to government and more worryingly to the position of prime minister - such is his popularity among not only a chuck of Tory voters but also Tory MPs and ministers.
Tories will forgive him for anything if it increases the likelihood of them getting into power again, regardless of whether he delivers for the people of the UK.  Like I said, a lot of politicians are only in politics for personal gain, not for the electorate/constituents they propose to represent.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 10:54am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 

But only if you have the right form of ID in England.  If you don’t have the right form of ID, you can’t vote for the opposition.

I just hope that when the report into whether he mislead parliament (I think we all know the answer to that) is released on Monday, it recommends that he’s banned from running as an MP again.
As long as he’s able to return to politics there’s always a risk that he could return to government and more worryingly to the position of prime minister - such is his popularity among not only a chuck of Tory voters but also Tory MPs and ministers.
Tories will forgive him for anything if it increases the likelihood of them getting into power again, regardless of whether he delivers for the people of the UK.  Like I said, a lot of politicians are only in politics for personal gain, not for the electorate/constituents they propose to represent.

The above is the whole conundrum in a nutshell.
While he was popular and successful, Tories overlooked everything.
Once he was rumbled as being a dishonest charlatan, and popularity and electoral prospects declined , they couldn't get rid of him quick enough .
They (the Tories) cannot wash their grubby hands of him , and Truss...it was THEY, who elected both, and we know what happened afterwards.


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

But we need to get rid of the first past the post ..PR is a system that allows true democracy to exist ....


Totally agree.Thumbs Up Oracle this is becoming a very worrying trend.Confused


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 

But only if you have the right form of ID in England.  If you don’t have the right form of ID, you can’t vote for the opposition.

I just hope that when the report into whether he mislead parliament (I think we all know the answer to that) is released on Monday, it recommends that he’s banned from running as an MP again.
As long as he’s able to return to politics there’s always a risk that he could return to government and more worryingly to the position of prime minister - such is his popularity among not only a chuck of Tory voters but also Tory MPs and ministers.
Tories will forgive him for anything if it increases the likelihood of them getting into power again, regardless of whether he delivers for the people of the UK.  Like I said, a lot of politicians are only in politics for personal gain, not for the electorate/constituents they propose to represent.

Not true legend - if you don't have the right form of ID you cannot vote for anyone. Surely this ID topic has been done to death by us - I am no great fan of Boris or indeed Trump but we don't need to sugar coat any facts to prove their dishonesty.

As for Boris being finished in British politics I am not convinced. The tories will probably get blasted at the next election, Sunak will fall on his sword & the tories will be looking for someone to get them back into power - I wouldn't even put ladram's fiver on it not being Boris. 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 11:28am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 

But only if you have the right form of ID in England.  If you don’t have the right form of ID, you can’t vote for the opposition.

I just hope that when the report into whether he mislead parliament (I think we all know the answer to that) is released on Monday, it recommends that he’s banned from running as an MP again.
As long as he’s able to return to politics there’s always a risk that he could return to government and more worryingly to the position of prime minister - such is his popularity among not only a chuck of Tory voters but also Tory MPs and ministers.
Tories will forgive him for anything if it increases the likelihood of them getting into power again, regardless of whether he delivers for the people of the UK.  Like I said, a lot of politicians are only in politics for personal gain, not for the electorate/constituents they propose to represent.

The above is the whole conundrum in a nutshell.
While he was popular and successful, Tories overlooked everything.
Once he was rumbled as being a dishonest charlatan, and popularity and electoral prospects declined , they couldn't get rid of him quick enough .
They (the Tories) cannot wash their grubby hands of him , and Truss...it was THEY, who elected both, and we know what happened afterwards.

Read an item yesterday, can't find it now, but since 2019, there have been 12 by-elections. Tories have lost 11. 

You'd therefore ask how popular is Boris now ?




Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 11 June 2023 at 11:43am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Last time I looked gentlemen it is is still meant to be a democracy - one person, one vote. 

But only if you have the right form of ID in England.  If you don’t have the right form of ID, you can’t vote for the opposition.

I just hope that when the report into whether he mislead parliament (I think we all know the answer to that) is released on Monday, it recommends that he’s banned from running as an MP again.
As long as he’s able to return to politics there’s always a risk that he could return to government and more worryingly to the position of prime minister - such is his popularity among not only a chuck of Tory voters but also Tory MPs and ministers.
Tories will forgive him for anything if it increases the likelihood of them getting into power again, regardless of whether he delivers for the people of the UK.  Like I said, a lot of politicians are only in politics for personal gain, not for the electorate/constituents they propose to represent.

Not true legend - if you don't have the right form of ID you cannot vote for anyone. Surely this ID topic has been done to death by us - I am no great fan of Boris or indeed Trump but we don't need to sugar coat any facts to prove their dishonesty.

As for Boris being finished in British politics I am not convinced. The tories will probably get blasted at the next election, Sunak will fall on his sword & the tories will be looking for someone to get them back into power - I wouldn't even put ladram's fiver on it not being Boris. 

I know that, I’m just reiterating the findings from the last lot of local elections in England, where they found that it disproportionately affected the younger voters who were more likely to vote for any of the opposition.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 12 June 2023 at 11:40pm
Yet more waffle from Johnson. 
He has again attempted to get his best mates into the Lord's , but wanted Sunak to overrule the overseeing committee, who were not happy with Boris 's proposal. 
Just like that other overgrown  schoolboy  Trump, Johnson throws  his toys out of the plan,  when he doesn't  get  his  own  way .
PATHETIC, REALLY .




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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 13 June 2023 at 8:11am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Yet more waffle from Johnson. 
He has again attempted to get his best mates into the Lord's , but wanted Sunak to overrule the overseeing committee, who were not happy with Boris 's proposal. 
Just like that other overgrown  schoolboy  Trump, Johnson throws  his toys out of the plan,  when he doesn't  get  his  own  way .
PATHETIC, REALLY .



Him and his supporters are pushing the conspiracy theory or Sunak's personal vendetta. It's not, he was found by a Tory majority standards committee to have deliberately mislead parliament. There is no way anyone who attended those gatherings, however briefly, could then honestly claim "rules were followed at all times". This is the bleedin' obvious and everyone knows this. It's funny, yet no surprise, that he has tried to invent further fictions, in this case that he was briefed to say all rules were followed, which the committee will find no evidence to support. 

I'm done talking about such a pathetic waste of a human being - till the next scandal! - but it amazes me the pro-Johnson papers cannot even report the facts properly. Well, in their headlines and sub-headlines at least. We talk about democracy on here and a free press which people can trust is paramount to that. Some of our paper owners are in fact Tory donors and even Lords, whilst a lot of our news stories in wide circulation media are actually quotes and opinions without any research, cross-examination or justification... i.e. effectively just gossip. I suspect there are actually now only a small number of Johnson supporters but they are very loud, amplified by the media. Just to create a story and sell their papers.

My final comment is to repeat exactly why Johnson had to resign as PM: he knowingly appointed a potential sexual offender into a position of power and forced his colleagues to lie on his behalf. Which they did until their lies were too obvious.

I have no clue why this has been forgotten.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 13 June 2023 at 10:03am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Yet more waffle from Johnson. 
He has again attempted to get his best mates into the Lord's , but wanted Sunak to overrule the overseeing committee, who were not happy with Boris 's proposal. 
Just like that other overgrown  schoolboy  Trump, Johnson throws  his toys out of the plan,  when he doesn't  get  his  own  way .
PATHETIC, REALLY .



Him and his supporters are pushing the conspiracy theory or Sunak's personal vendetta. It's not, he was found by a Tory majority standards committee to have deliberately mislead parliament. There is no way anyone who attended those gatherings, however briefly, could then honestly claim "rules were followed at all times". This is the bleedin' obvious and everyone knows this. It's funny, yet no surprise, that he has tried to invent further fictions, in this case that he was briefed to say all rules were followed, which the committee will find no evidence to support. 

I'm done talking about such a pathetic waste of a human being - till the next scandal! - but it amazes me the pro-Johnson papers cannot even report the facts properly. Well, in their headlines and sub-headlines at least. We talk about democracy on here and a free press which people can trust is paramount to that. Some of our paper owners are in fact Tory donors and even Lords, whilst a lot of our news stories in wide circulation media are actually quotes and opinions without any research, cross-examination or justification... i.e. effectively just gossip. I suspect there are actually now only a small number of Johnson supporters but they are very loud, amplified by the media. Just to create a story and sell their papers.

My final comment is to repeat exactly why Johnson had to resign as PM: he knowingly appointed a potential sexual offender into a position of power and forced his colleagues to lie on his behalf. Which they did until their lies were too obvious.

I have no clue why this has been forgotten.

Personally, I cannot wait to hear the committees verdict.
Those on the Parliamentary Standards  Committee,  loyal Tories , like Bernard Jenkin, most be horrified to hear what the muppet  Johnson has said  about this impartial,  and vital part of British  Democracy. 
I said in my previous  post, he is like a  pathetic  schoolboy, kicking off, because he does'nt like the harsh reality of his school report.
It's sickening  th honours Johnson  has bestowed on his mates like the cretin Rees -Mogg.  Fortunately,  the other major buffoon,  Dorries was denied, but would be in the Lords now, if Boris had his way. 
The honours system, like the Lords , should be abolished .


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 13 June 2023 at 11:49am
And then the brilliant former PM of 49 days Liz Truss is claiming to have a set of ex PM honours list agreed isn’t she? She must have the hide of a rhinoceros! 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 13 June 2023 at 12:53pm
And the brain of a gnat


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 13 June 2023 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

And then the brilliant former PM of 49 days Liz Truss is claiming to have a set of ex PM honours list agreed isn’t she? She must have the hide of a rhinoceros! 

I cannot fathom who I despise most Thatcher, Johnson or Truss !
HIde  rhinoceros us appropriate description for the three.


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 6:25am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

And then the brilliant former PM of 49 days Liz Truss is claiming to have a set of ex PM honours list agreed isn’t she? She must have the hide of a rhinoceros! 

I cannot fathom who I despise most Thatcher, Johnson or Truss !
HIde  rhinoceros us appropriate description for the three.

There can be no comparisons drawn between Thatcher & the other two in my opinion. 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 8:04am
If we had PR the country would look vastly different 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 6:39pm
Johnson just won't give up.

He's now saying the Bernard Jenkin had a lockdown party of his own to celebrate his wife's birthday.

Are there no lengths thst Johnson won't go to ? How does this attack on Jenkin exonerate Johnson from his own 'sins' ?


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Johnson just won't give up.

He's now saying the Bernard Jenkin had a lockdown party of his own to celebrate his wife's birthday.

Are there no lengths thst Johnson won't go to ? How does this attack on Jenkin exonerate Johnson from his own 'sins' ?
It’s all very kids’ playground behaviour, too.

How on earth people voted for him to be Prime Minister etc has been beyond me for some considerable time.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Johnson just won't give up.

He's now saying the Bernard Jenkin had a lockdown party of his own to celebrate his wife's birthday.

Are there no lengths thst Johnson won't go to ? How does this attack on Jenkin exonerate Johnson from his own 'sins' ?
It’s all very kids’ playground behaviour, too.

How on earth people voted for him to be Prime Minister etc has been beyond me for some considerable time.

It has now dropped to the 'my father is bigger than yours' level FFS


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 14 June 2023 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

And then the brilliant former PM of 49 days Liz Truss is claiming to have a set of ex PM honours list agreed isn’t she? She must have the hide of a rhinoceros! 

I cannot fathom who I despise most Thatcher, Johnson or Truss !
HIde  rhinoceros us appropriate description for the three.

There can be no comparisons drawn between Thatcher & the other two in my opinion. 
There can!


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 7:14am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

And then the brilliant former PM of 49 days Liz Truss is claiming to have a set of ex PM honours list agreed isn’t she? She must have the hide of a rhinoceros! 

I cannot fathom who I despise most Thatcher, Johnson or Truss !
HIde  rhinoceros us appropriate description for the three.

There can be no comparisons drawn between Thatcher & the other two in my opinion. 
There can!

Yes Mark they were all Tory PM's but surely that is where any comparison ends. Thatcher, regardless of your political persuasions, was a serious politician - I rest my case. Wink


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 9:34am
Destroyed by the Committee's report. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 9:42am
The shame is he was allowed to jump before he was pushed.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 9:51am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Destroyed by the Committee's report. 

Yes a pretty comprehensive assessment. 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 10:09am
It's a bad day to be Boris Johnson Clap


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 11:49am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Destroyed by the Committee's report. 

Yes a pretty comprehensive assessment. 

Boris Johnson, 30 March: "I have the utmost respect for the integrity of the Committee and all its Members."

Phew, I'm glad to hear that! Otherwise there'd be a load of pathetic snowflake whining, claims it is a kangaroo court, a political stitch up, accusing the committee of lying (hahaha can you even imagine this!), undermining their authority, personal attacks on the members...

The only other possibility I can think, dare I even suggest it, is that when Johnson spoke in March he actually was not quite saying the whole truth? No, no, it can't be this. He has such a good track record with the truth, after all, and has only previously been sacked from two jobs for lying. That's hardly any when you compare it to much larger numbers.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

It's a bad day to be Boris Johnson Clap

Totally....and its great! 
Shameless,  lying toe-rag at last exposed formally,   for what he is.
Of course, its all a conspiracy, fake newsLOL...just like that surrounding  the other arch cretin Trump..
The difference  here in the UK, is that he has been judged by his tory peers .We know that they overlooked his failings,  when things were going well., but soon as the cracks  showed, the knives were out.
In fairness however , some have continually  spoken out, and congratulations  to the Tories on the Standards and Privileges,  like Bernard Jenkin, and others,  for digging their heels in.

Trump, on the other hand had been backed by the shameless 
Republicans, many too frightened of the backlash from Grass root Republicans in their  area.
What a shower!!

One final point..and  in response to GPR's(always well balanced posts) point regarding Johnson, Truss and Thatcher. 
I totally agree with him that she was a 'serious ' politician in  comparison to the two clowns,  Johnson and Trump. 
In fairness,  things would Never have happened under her, that have happened under Johnson ', parties during lockdown,  lying about it, appointment  of a serial sex predadator as a minister,  and lying about it.Re -furbishing the Downing St flat, at a tory donors expense and lying about it , continually changing his story.Lying about Brexit, and what he  probably knew he could'nt deliver. 
Truss, we know   was down right incompetent .

What instigated  thus thread was the theory of the ' hide of a rhinoceros ', which is where I drew my comparisons between the three Tories.
As opposed two the other two buffoons,  Thatcher was efficient  in the way she went about things . Efficiently,  destroying  the fabric of Welsh communities,  from which they have have never recovered. 
This was based on her hard nose dogma, varied in the oven by her crackpot  mate Sir Keith Joseph.
She Efficiently  destroyed  the ethos of ' community ', we held so dear,
the very essence of what describe as civic pride, responsibility  to each other
Ask anyone of a certain age about Thatcher in places le Llanelli and Ammanford, your reply will be swift

On a day,in which we should ge concentrating  on the demise of Johnson,  I could go on and on, so I apologise for my rant.
Let's hope we can  now return to politics,  where,  whatever  your views wher standards matter,  and ethical code of behaviour,  matters. 
Telling the truth matters, how else can we build a credible society to hand on to our children and grandchildren.
We have huge problem facing us , particularly  global warming,  and the destruction  of the natural  world  as we know it.
There is an absolute necessity,  to have those in positions of authority,  not only to be capable , honest, but making hard decisions  in the best intrests for all of us( including the wider world),  not just the few.
I am not holding my breath  about the above sadly.



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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 12:03pm
If thatcher was still prime minister we would still be in the European Union , Johnson would never have got near Westminster , nor would sunak , mordant , Braverman , grove, effectively clearing the conservative front row ...That would be the up as side , I could move to the negative side and that would probably overload sf servers 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 2:45pm
Interesting.... presumably a relatively small bunch of Johnson supporters are very vocal, even threatening that fellow Conservatives who vote in favour of this report will be de-selected.

So a decision from a Tory majority committee they don't like they then respond to by attempting to bully their colleagues and even exclude them from their party?

Democracy when it suits them, eh? These individuals, most of whom show that they have been bought by Johnson by the "Sir" that has appeared in front of their names recently (not Dorries though!), know they are finished and appear quite happy to try and split their own party over it, which is completely fine by me.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 3:32pm
Parallels are so alike with the USA 
We have Trump having 37 charges of espionage cast against him in the USA and his response is how it's an illegal coup against him by a kangaroo court , but then being supported by a derranged blonde woman called Marjorie Taylor Greene who is totally under some kind of Charles Manson mantra ...
Over here we have a poor man's trump ....found guilty of lying numerous times to everyone ..As soon as he's found guilty he complains that it's a coup and he is being judged by a kangaroo court ..Johnson is also being supported by a blonde derranged woman called Dorres , who is his marjorie Taylor greene like groupie ...

Makes you wonder if the faceless people in the background are using the same tactics in both countries ...2 puppet clowns but only one puppet master 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 4:21pm
I've deleted my post because I realise... actually, who gives a f*** what Rees-Mogg thinks? Any nation that does has something seriously wrong with it.

The report is interesting reading BTW, very comprehensive and full of this "evidence" thing. The critics of it should read it sometime.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 15 June 2023 at 11:42pm
There still Johnson supporters out there.
Minister in the cabinet office Brandon  Scott- Smith, had the nerve to 
appear on Newsnight tonight, and face a lady from the Covid Bereaved  families. He stated that,Boris had been hard done by at the hands of the committee! 
He said the committee had no evidence  of Johnson lying , even though they have been gathering  information, .and talking to various  people for over a year.

What planet is this guy and Rees-Mogg on?
Possibly we should arrange a special space shuttle,  and send Scott -Smith,  Rees -Mogg, Doŕries and Co off to where the only "stars in your eyes" they will sees ,will be the ones up in the sky!!




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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 12:26am
Gutto Harry was on question time this evening stating very much the same rubbish.  That he was hard done by, found guilty by a kangaroo court, headed by a labour peer who had it in for him from the start.  They are spouting out this nonsense despite the fact that BOJO set up the enquiry himself (when still PM) and agreed the set up of the panel - where a opposition party member has to chair the committee and the majority of the panel come from the current government, so the Tories had more panelists.
The fact that he can still command a following from some Tory ministers is just incredible, although a lot of it is probably down to the fact that they know that they are a busted flush and are desperate for the man who (allegedly) delivered a landslide win in the last GE all by himself, to come back and rescue the party and resolve the current financial crisis.
Bojo has for the first time in his life has been found out for what he is and more importantly has been sanctioned for it.  In the past he hasn’t been held accountable for any of his indiscretions and has been allowed to just move on.  This time is different, it’s been recommended that he is banned from the commons for 90 days and that he is not allowed to ever stand as an MP again - although these are just recommendations and the final decision will be decided by a vote in parliament next week (so nothing can be taken for granted).
I hope this is the last time we see him in position of extreme power/ public office and that he just crawls under a rock somewhere, but I don’t hold my breath.



Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 7:18am
Right wing papers leading with a "Tory split" as the headline, more left wing ones the actual findings of the report, that it found he mislead parliament. The Tory split angle gives more prominence to that loud minority, giving Rees-Mogg airtime... Plus of course undermines the committee which they are lying about - Harman didn't vote. It was Tory dominated. 

I note the BBC also has gone down this pathway, pushing the Tory split as the biggest aspect. I suppose it still has to get voted through, but the findings of the report should be the actual headline before people's opinions on it. Sneaky stuff by the BBC.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 10:04am
Bpjo will be back in some guise or other folk like him never stay out of the limelight for long, prob end up as a tv host!


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 10:19am
Another tosser on GB News 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 16 June 2023 at 10:19am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Bpjo will be back in some guise or other folk like him never stay out of the limelight for long, prob end up as a tv host!

He basically was one when PM! But yes, he no doubt will stick around as there seem to be a decent number of people who find him entertaining. I think even I did back when he first appeared on HIGNFY but I never thought him suitable for any serious political role - on his very first appearance he was shown up for trying to get a fellow journalist beaten up! Plus he'll make serious cash back in the media so it's a given.


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 18 June 2023 at 10:34am
Has anyone watched that babbling idiot Michael Gove on the Laura Kuensburg show this morning.
When questioned about the privilege committee’s report and the new video of a Christmas party at Downing Street, he firstly didn’t believe that the 2 people seen in the video should lose the honours they received last week in BOJOs honours list.  Secondly, whilst agreeing with the report, he didn’t agree with the findings, stating that he shouldn’t have received such a big sanction, and as a result he will abstain from voting the recommendations of the report through.
He should remember that the sanctions were only upped as a result of BOJOs reaction to the original report and recommendations, the fact that he attacked the report and the panel personally (in the press) before anyone else (inc the Tory party) had got a chance to see the report.

I have some concerns here, Sunak (being so weak) made the vote a free vote instead of a mandatory vote, meaning that all those who hope for a return to politics for Boris can either vote against the findings or just not turn up and vote.  Had he the backbone to make it mandatory, he could then whip them into voting for the findings or face having the whip removed - this was a power BOJO himself used on many occasions (probably more than any of predecessors) to force through certain policies or changes to government.
He now runs the risk of the Tory party not voting through the recommendations of the privileges committee’s report, or the vote being so close that he then leaves himself open to further criticism from the BOJO supporters within the party.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 18 June 2023 at 11:11am
Does anyone know where sunak has gone 


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 18 June 2023 at 4:04pm
That’s a very good question, he’s either still digesting the findings of the parliamentary privileges committees report into BOJOs misleading of parliament (which everyone knew happened but we needed an inquiry into it, at great cost to the taxpayers), or he’s finished digesting it and he’s in hiding, only to reemerge on Monday for the free vote.
It’s a free vote for Tory MPs, so I can see a lot abstaining, but I hope that enough opposition MPs attend and finish BOJOs political career off once and for all.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 18 June 2023 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Has anyone watched that babbling idiot Michael Gove on the Laura Kuensburg show this morning.
When questioned about the privilege committee’s report and the new video of a Christmas party at Downing Street, he firstly didn’t believe that the 2 people seen in the video should lose the honours they received last week in BOJOs honours list.  Secondly, whilst agreeing with the report, he didn’t agree with the findings, stating that he shouldn’t have received such a big sanction, and as a result he will abstain from voting the recommendations of the report through.
He should remember that the sanctions were only upped as a result of BOJOs reaction to the original report and recommendations, the fact that he attacked the report and the panel personally (in the press) before anyone else (inc the Tory party) had got a chance to see the report.

I have some concerns here, Sunak (being so weak) made the vote a free vote instead of a mandatory vote, meaning that all those who hope for a return to politics for Boris can either vote against the findings or just not turn up and vote.  Had he the backbone to make it mandatory, he could then whip them into voting for the findings or face having the whip removed - this was a power BOJO himself used on many occasions (probably more than any of predecessors) to force through certain policies or changes to government.
He now runs the risk of the Tory party not voting through the recommendations of the privileges committee’s report, or the vote being so close that he then leaves himself open to further criticism from the BOJO supporters within the party.

Presumably LK pointed that out to him as any half-decent political journalist would? Actually, I think I know the answer to that. 


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 19 June 2023 at 12:55am
Its no good Gove making empty apologies to the bereaved families, who lost coved ones to Covid, when we witness scenes from the Tory party central office , partying like no tomorrow, when everyone else locked down, obeying the rules. Gove should gave the moral fibre to do the right thing , and back the committee's recommendations. to the hilt !
The fact that he won't, and may abstain in the vote, sums up the Tories for what they are.
We are now faced , with a weak, spineless PM, and a Tory party ,at war with itself, while major problems, including the cost of living still plague ordinary people.
Its obscene we may have to wait a year before we  have the opportunity to remove this shower of poo, masquerading as a  serious political party.


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 19 June 2023 at 10:42pm
So the commons have voted 354 to 7 in favour of the recommendation of the parliamentary standards enquiry into BOJO misleading parliament.
Whilst it was unanimously approved by MPs, it must be noted that as there are 550 MPs in the commons that means that approximately 200 Tory MPs chose not to vote.  That just shows how seriously they take the report and how they are still in love with BOJO, and probably secretly hoping that he can make a comeback in the future and save them their jobs.
However, this is just narrow minded, as they are likely to lose their jobs at the next GE anyway, and if he ever tried to return to frontline politics I’m sure that the electorate will not forgive his failure as easily as the Tory MPs.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 20 June 2023 at 3:05am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

So the commons have voted 354 to 7 in favour of the recommendation of the parliamentary standards enquiry into BOJO misleading parliament.
Whilst it was unanimously approved by MPs, it must be noted that as there are 550 MPs in the commons that means that approximately 200 Tory MPs chose not to vote.  That just shows how seriously they take the report and how they are still in love with BOJO, and probably secretly hoping that he can make a comeback in the future and save them their jobs.
However, this is just narrow minded, as they are likely to lose their jobs at the next GE anyway, and if he ever tried to return to frontline politics I’m sure that the electorate will not forgive his failure as easily as the Tory MPs.

Well said Legend.! 
The question of course, is WHERE WAS SUNAK ?.The spineless wimp, was nowhere to be seen.
Its clear  that as PM, it was HIS RESPONSIBILITY, to be at the house, to ensure that the ethics of democracy, are safeguarded. Instead of doing the right thing he took the easy way out. He owed that to the families of those who sadly perished during Covid.
Instead petty party interests got in the way.
It sums him up and sums up the gut-wrenching rabble that call themselves Tories. Self Interest first, the country second(or maybe third).
Even today we had Johnson supporter's in Parliament claiming witch-hunt, and the fact the Standards and ethics committee  have no evidence to back it claims .

What planet are these people on????  We have Johnson making a number of false  statements, at the despatch box which only a total imbecile would say was correct, given the FACTS.
On top of this the committee have gathered evidence for over a year, interviewing many people.

What angers me to the extreme therefore , as much as the actions of Johnson himself, is the attitude of these supporters led by cheerleaders like Rees -Mogg and Dorries and a minority of the general public , who still love Johnson.
I would be quite happy to perform a lobotomy on these people, even without training Wink

The pressure needs to be cranked up now on the creaking shower of poo, masquerading as a political party. 
The general election cannot come quick enough





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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 20 June 2023 at 6:58am
Poor leadership from Sunak. Proper politicians are alive & well within the Tory ranks with Theresa May and Penny Mordaunt showing the way at the debate. As for 200 plus abstaining by choice or non attendance on such an important topic - they too should be barred from Westminster for a period of time to reflect on their responsibilities to their electorate. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 20 June 2023 at 8:59am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Poor leadership from Sunak. Proper politicians are alive & well within the Tory ranks with Theresa May and Penny Mordaunt showing the way at the debate. As for 200 plus abstaining by choice or non attendance on such an important topic - they too should be barred from Westminster for a period of time to reflect on their responsibilities to their electorate. 

Agree. Rees-Mogg was prattling on with his distinct blend of extreme Victorian poshness and utter contempt defending Johnson to the hilt and then apparently abstained! 

At least we can hopefully draw a line under this now - Johnson is where he belongs as a DM columnist and should never touch front line politics again.


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 20 June 2023 at 9:47am
It’s interesting that a majority of the higher ranking government ministers chose to abstain inc Sunak, the Deputy PM, the Home Secretary and foreign secretary.   
Was this something to do with the fact that if they had voted through the recommendations they would be seen as hypocritical due to the fact that they served on BOJOs cabinet and as a result were complicit in everything that has come to light in this report/enquiry.



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