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GPR - Rochester 
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 Topic: Mark Orders
Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:14am |
 salmidach wrote:
I don't agree with the 60 cap rule.....
I believe in the play for Wales, play in Wales! |
Well that would certainly have avoided the nonsense situations which we had with Francis, Webb, Young & Priestland.
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salmidach
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Posted: 04 May 2022 at 9:03am |
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I don't agree with the 60 cap rule.....
I believe in the play for Wales, play in Wales!
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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 04 May 2022 at 7:31am |
scarletabroad wrote:
The 60 cap rule I do in principle agree with it, be it for player welfare [preventing them being overplayed etc. But can see the counter argument of other country based players. Yes the regions suffer with access to players and it needs sorting with the URC fixtures not clashing etc.
BUT
Do people actually think that if we allowed players to ply their trade to the highest bidder we would have any of the welsh internationals playing in wales!!!?
The reality is they would be gone within a season not necessarily first choice but they would be gone as squad fillers if nothing else.
This reason alone I think is why the rule should stay. |
On your points supporting the 60 cap rule I would comment as follows. Financially I guess the only countries who could now outbid Welsh clubs are France & Japan. English clubs are now restricted. Why would an International player jeopardise his chances of playing for his country by becoming a squad filler? I know its sometimes more difficult to get out of the Welsh squad than in it but unless you are playing regularly you are going to have problems.
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scarletabroad
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Posted: 03 May 2022 at 2:52pm |
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The 60 cap rule I do in principle agree with it, be it for player welfare [preventing them being overplayed etc. But can see the counter argument of other country based players. Yes the regions suffer with access to players and it needs sorting with the URC fixtures not clashing etc.
BUT
Do people actually think that if we allowed players to ply their trade to the highest bidder we would have any of the welsh internationals playing in wales!!!?
The reality is they would be gone within a season not necessarily first choice but they would be gone as squad fillers if nothing else.
This reason alone I think is why the rule should stay.
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 03 May 2022 at 7:35am |
scarletnut wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
How many times does this have to be said? the 60 cap rule makes life a hell of a lot easier for the national coach. Why on earth would Pivac want to cut the amount of time he has with his players by over half? It’s there to benefit him not the pro sides. |
Well Steff I am looking at the situation as someone who realises that our system is broken & it needs to be changed if we are to see any improvement in the fortunes of the clubs. For far too long everything in Welsh rugby has centred on team Wales & the chickens are coming home to roost in a big way as team Wales are at last realising that with under financed & under performing regions come the debacle that was losing at home to Italy.
The 60 cap rule should be scrapped immediately and players should be allowed to market their talents wherever they want without damaging their International prospects. Pivac pays lip service to the rule by stating that he only gets to work with England based players 25% of the time - funnily he only says this when faced with difficult questions over the likes of Reffell etc yet he willingly selects bang average players like Sheedy & Tompkins when he has similarly talented Wales based alternatives.
The lack of preparation time is a total red herring dreamt up to justify the 60 cap rule - strange how Eddie Jones manages to select his team & prepare them for Internationals with a similar amount of time as Pivac has his non Wales based players and he also has to make final preparations during game week with a maximum of 26 players.
It is high time that everyone realises that the only beneficiaries of the 60 cap rule are team Wales. You have tried in vain to convince me that the clubs have also benefitted by citing certain players returning to Wales or indeed some who have not left - I would put forward that Liam returning has had zero benefit for the Scarlets. I would also suggest that if any member of the Scarlets squad has been made to stay due to the 60 cap rule then it would probably have been better for the Scarlets for him to go as we need a dressing room totally committed to performing in the Scarlet shirt as their only way of getting higher recognition. |
I’ve said all along that the 60 cap rule is purely there to help team Wales. With that in mind why would Pivac or the WRU scrap it? You can’t compare Wales to England given the difference in playing numbers etc. Pivac needs full access to his players to have any chance of success |
I appreciate that Pivac would not wish to change the rules but someone with some foresight needs to look at the bigger picture for the long term benefit of Welsh rugby & if that means sacrificing Pivac's access to players and putting him on the same footing as Gregor Townsend & Eddie Jones so be it.
Your point about not being able to compare England & Wales I do not agree with. Eddie & Pivac start off with roughly the same size squads 35-38. Eddie has to let all but 25/26 return to their clubs for training on the Wednesday before the test weekend. Pivac has around 30-32 players available that week made up of English based players in the 23 and Welsh based players. Very few currently are released back to their clubs. If access % was so important then Pivac has a slight advantage over Eddie.
As is customary with Pivac his management of his squad is carried out far too much in the media. Having access to players for only 25% of the training period is constantly used as a reason not to pick certain players but doesn't enter the equation with others - its a complete nonsense. Gatland may well have thought along similar lines but he wasn't foolish enough to blab it about in public.
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RR1972
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 5:39pm |
Pivac could have the players for 365 days and he won’t be succesful. 
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scarletnut
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 3:53pm |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
How many times does this have to be said? the 60 cap rule makes life a hell of a lot easier for the national coach. Why on earth would Pivac want to cut the amount of time he has with his players by over half? It’s there to benefit him not the pro sides. |
Well Steff I am looking at the situation as someone who realises that our system is broken & it needs to be changed if we are to see any improvement in the fortunes of the clubs. For far too long everything in Welsh rugby has centred on team Wales & the chickens are coming home to roost in a big way as team Wales are at last realising that with under financed & under performing regions come the debacle that was losing at home to Italy.
The 60 cap rule should be scrapped immediately and players should be allowed to market their talents wherever they want without damaging their International prospects. Pivac pays lip service to the rule by stating that he only gets to work with England based players 25% of the time - funnily he only says this when faced with difficult questions over the likes of Reffell etc yet he willingly selects bang average players like Sheedy & Tompkins when he has similarly talented Wales based alternatives.
The lack of preparation time is a total red herring dreamt up to justify the 60 cap rule - strange how Eddie Jones manages to select his team & prepare them for Internationals with a similar amount of time as Pivac has his non Wales based players and he also has to make final preparations during game week with a maximum of 26 players.
It is high time that everyone realises that the only beneficiaries of the 60 cap rule are team Wales. You have tried in vain to convince me that the clubs have also benefitted by citing certain players returning to Wales or indeed some who have not left - I would put forward that Liam returning has had zero benefit for the Scarlets. I would also suggest that if any member of the Scarlets squad has been made to stay due to the 60 cap rule then it would probably have been better for the Scarlets for him to go as we need a dressing room totally committed to performing in the Scarlet shirt as their only way of getting higher recognition. |
I’ve said all along that the 60 cap rule is purely there to help team Wales. With that in mind why would Pivac or the WRU scrap it? You can’t compare Wales to England given the difference in playing numbers etc. Pivac needs full access to his players to have any chance of success
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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Kentexile
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 3:00pm |
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If the WRU paid the English Premiership teams for access to players over and above the IRB minimum the problem of player access would likely go away - but paying for that may have to be covered by downgrading the tea and coffee choice on the breakfast trays at the new hotel.
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 1:23pm |
scarletnut wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
How many times does this have to be said? the 60 cap rule makes life a hell of a lot easier for the national coach. Why on earth would Pivac want to cut the amount of time he has with his players by over half? It’s there to benefit him not the pro sides. |
Well Steff I am looking at the situation as someone who realises that our system is broken & it needs to be changed if we are to see any improvement in the fortunes of the clubs. For far too long everything in Welsh rugby has centred on team Wales & the chickens are coming home to roost in a big way as team Wales are at last realising that with under financed & under performing regions come the debacle that was losing at home to Italy.
The 60 cap rule should be scrapped immediately and players should be allowed to market their talents wherever they want without damaging their International prospects. Pivac pays lip service to the rule by stating that he only gets to work with England based players 25% of the time - funnily he only says this when faced with difficult questions over the likes of Reffell etc yet he willingly selects bang average players like Sheedy & Tompkins when he has similarly talented Wales based alternatives.
The lack of preparation time is a total red herring dreamt up to justify the 60 cap rule - strange how Eddie Jones manages to select his team & prepare them for Internationals with a similar amount of time as Pivac has his non Wales based players and he also has to make final preparations during game week with a maximum of 26 players.
It is high time that everyone realises that the only beneficiaries of the 60 cap rule are team Wales. You have tried in vain to convince me that the clubs have also benefitted by citing certain players returning to Wales or indeed some who have not left - I would put forward that Liam returning has had zero benefit for the Scarlets. I would also suggest that if any member of the Scarlets squad has been made to stay due to the 60 cap rule then it would probably have been better for the Scarlets for him to go as we need a dressing room totally committed to performing in the Scarlet shirt as their only way of getting higher recognition.
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SA14
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 11:24am |
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Andy Howell was Charles Dickens compared to Mark Orders. He really is an awful journalist. All his pieces start with some random mini story. He must have got some of his influences from Ronnie Corbett monologues.
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RR1972
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 10:48am |
scarletnut wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
How many times does this have to be said? the 60 cap rule makes life a hell of a lot easier for the national coach. Why on earth would Pivac want to cut the amount of time he has with his players by over half? It’s there to benefit him not the pro sides. |
quick q on the 38 player picks, do we ever get to see the full list? Is it done on say 2 players per position and then 8 spares or could it be any mix of 38? Eg ten back rowers and no wingers? It’s all very secretive for some reason. Pivac can’t settle on his best 15 let alone 38 , look at the way he moved heaven and earth to get webb here then binned him then his treatment of holmes, then basham he is not consistent at all. I have no faith in him selecting his test 23 from the 38 centrally contracted players tbh, nailed on the wru are paying 80 per cent of a players salary who won’t get a test cap next year
Edited by RR1972 - 02 May 2022 at 10:53am
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RR1972
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 10:45am |
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Would mcbryde be a good pick as head coach for the drags?
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scarletnut
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 10:15am |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
How many times does this have to be said? the 60 cap rule makes life a hell of a lot easier for the national coach. Why on earth would Pivac want to cut the amount of time he has with his players by over half? It’s there to benefit him not the pro sides.
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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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townboy
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 8:41am |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard. |
I was in Llandovery on Saturday watching their game against Bridgend and was told that Harry Williams one of young 9’s has been released along with Tomi Lewis..Not sure how much truth is in this thou
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 02 May 2022 at 7:37am |
Cawdor is the best available Welsh 9 by a country mile. As for the back up it should be Aled Davies but because we are hell bent on making life as difficult for our coaches as possible you can pick anyone from Hardy, Webb, Rhodri or Tomos as back up. Enough has been said of Tomos which I won't repeat but Hardy has gone backwards this season at a rate of knots starting with a diabolical display in Edinburgh.
Blacker picked up a lot of momentum early season but his form has fallen away along with limited chances. I would be surprised to see both Hardy & Blacker in our squad after next season as we have three 9's with real potential who are going to be pushing very hard.
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Jones2004
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Posted: 01 May 2022 at 11:29pm |
RR1972 wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
I think it’s almost mandatory for a journalist these days (who wants to make his/her way to the top) to retain his credentials and integrity by offering up only considered and thought provoking pieces, with at least some balance and analysis.
This recent article was weak, and a thinly veiled and very stretched attempt to pick individual successes from a team failure, and so continue the long litany of pro Ospreys articles from his pen.
He’s touting Griffiths as a future Welsh captain made me chuckle as it’s based on quotes from a coach who ( no disrespect meant) has not played or coached professional rugby, and not attained anything ( unless you count relegation as an attribute) at semi pro level.
That’s not even bending things to fit a pre determined outcome ( which I can cope with) that’s just rank poor journalism.
Don’t get me wrong on Morgan, he’s excellent and as certain to be capped by Wales as there is right now, and had a great game, but you can’t just embellish the positives and ignore the negatives. He missed a crucial tackle that enabled our last try for example, was unable to bring Cawdor down when he went for a dart on the blind side in the 1st half ( luckily there was cover, but it was his man)
He also won’t be first choice for the O’s when Tips is fit. Wales are not short of quality 7’s, and if all remain fit, then Morgan is not in the running right now.
The overall standard of Welsh rugby journalism isn’t bad at all, Simon and Steff keep that bar up there, not sure what the value addition of a writer that really only has one narrative adds though, |
do you think the ospreys will play morgan and tupric in same team? Personally i think morgan is the best welsh 7 i’d have a back row of him naividi and felatau i don’t think griffiths will be a future welsh captain but morgan will be . Orders fawning over webb is a bit weird tbh
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How many times was he charged down in the first half? Once can be unlucky, but the amount he was charged down suggested a serious inability to organise a ‘caterpillar ruck’. On the basis of yesterday I’d have Cawdor and Kieran in the Welsh team every day of the week over Webb.
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