Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > GENERAL RUGBY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Welsh team v Argentina.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Welsh team v Argentina.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Fscarlet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 26 January 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Welsh team v Argentina.
    Posted: 15 November 2022 at 9:28am
Wales are set to announce their side to face Georgia today with the WOL suggesting that Josh might finally get his first cap. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
scarletpimp View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 November 2015
Location: llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 1026
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2022 at 12:06am
A very interesting set of assessments.
One thing is for sure, very few people gave Wales hope of beating a side that had beaten NZ a short time ago, AND triumphed at Twickenham, a week before.

Overall, it was a far better, more physical, more committed performance from Wales.
After the NZ, I mentioned in a post, that Wales get better as the Autumn series progresses, and this proved the point. We were awful that game, in terms of not making the All blacks really WORK for their points. Same for the Scots, who looked rusty against Fiji, but could have beaten NZ.
After the level of rugby our teams having been playing for the regions, All Blacks, first up...a disaster!
Would we have beaten them, playing them last, possibly not, but it would be far more competitive.

The issue in rugby, and it hasn't changed over decades, is that you have to win the collisions, or be competitive. When Llanelli played all blacks in 72, same for the lions in 71, and 74 in SA, they would NOT, be physically intimidated or dominated.
Being together longer, in camp at least gives you a chance to increase the intensity, & edge which you need playing top international sides.

The major problem Wales have, however, is the lack of depth in the front 5, and this is worrying, with the world cup on the horizon.
It worth repeating, what I mentioned, in the other post, that when Gatland was there., and just over a year ago, we had Jake Ball and Hill in the second row, both different type of players, but both effective.
Now both are playing abroad sadly. To add to this AWJ was then playing at the top of his game, but now, after injury, looks a shadow of the player he was!
In the front row, we had a fully fit samson Lee (now destroyed by injury), Wyn Jones (now injury prone). Rob Evans (now a shadow of the player, again due to injury).
Very few of the current crop fill you with confidence, although Thomas, did better against ARG.
Two players with suspect scrummaging, but with the physicality are Carre, and Brown, both good ball carriers, we badly need. Carre not included in squad, and Brown, injured.
Both need to be involved in some way in future.

The other issue of course, on which gats built his success, was the aggressive defence, for which he had the best defence coach in the world Shaun Edwards. 
Much better defence v ARG, but in Gethin Jenkins, we have a young coach, learning at the top level (and everyone has to at some stage). He will be a really great coach in future, I am sure.

There are also selection and tactics, which Pivac , rightly or wrongly has been criticised for.
Gatland also got criticised, don't forget, for a limited gameplan.
Pivac has tried to expand the gameplan, and some have described as "scattergun "approach.

Personally, I think he has tried to do the right thing, maybe it's been executed badly.
We are never going to dominate teams up front, so we have to try something different.
This again had led to some bizarre selections, with Pivac trying different combinations.
Let's be honest about it he has very few quality options open to him, so has pursued as many avenues as possible.

Looking ahead there are different permutations in some positions, but in general we can see the bulk of his A side nailed down.
The questions?
Who plays FB, in the continues absence of Liam Williams (who's fitness is totally unreliable)
Who will play OH Biggar/ Anscombe?
Who plays 6 and 7.

I think Wales will beat Georgia and possibly Australia. Not sure about 6N

All the above, is a sideshow, however.
The real Mcoy is what the WRU will do to eradicate the decline of the game in Wales.
At the moment the structure of the WRU is not fit for purpose with small clubs, dictating.
The net result is that we cannot move forward as we should.

There should be a total Independant review of the game in Wales. Root and branch
This has been done with the women's game, and we have seen a few green shoots of success. The success here is to initially develop the game and greater participation in schools, then at U16/U18 & U20. 
The regional academies the league structure. leading up to the premiership and regions should be looked at.
what is happening ATM, clearly is not good enough, which is why we have a relatively small number of qualities international players to pick from.
Whether we have change or whether we stumble on as, we are, remains to be seen.

Finally, just a word about being a coach.
I spent 15 years as a player (played in a few finals), and near the end of my career, ended my time Unsurprisingly in the 2nds, playing with some of my older pupils (from 6th form) How embarrassing, which is when I packed it in Confused.LOL
Nothing however prepares you for being a coach. 
My dad was an excellent at this, a real student of the game, with the South African Dannie Craven his real inspiration.
In contrast I found it quite difficult, despite my time as a player and my dad's template.  
As it happened, we had a family and the extra demands of teaching meant I shelved my coaching until much later when i coached the junior section, which I can honestly say was pure joy, and so rewarding, even though we didn't always win!

Pivac and Peel have had their critics on here, but are doing their best in circumstances which are far from ideal
It's a lonely old job, and undoubtedly both have made mistakes, at some stage!
Who would be a coach Ouch ? 
When it's done well is done well, it's amazing. Just look at the job Smith has done for NZ women and the impact he's made!

I stood yer on tanner bank
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26074
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 9:08pm
Jenkins captained Exeter the weekend 
Back to Top
Scrletsfan32x View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 June 2019
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 608
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrletsfan32x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 6:48pm
I’d start one of the young locks with Carter and the other on the bench this weekend. Let’s blood them early against Georgia and keep Beard and AWJ for Australia.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 16789
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I want us to go strong this weekend, rather than make the usual wholesale changes, & actually look to put a big score on Georgia. 


adams back for wknd get him on. I take it lrz misses the oz gane as out of test window?  I’d give him another go at 15, him adams and dyer be a rapid back 3 morgan and josh to start in back riw  be nice to see some one else get a start at 8

Edited by RR1972 - 14 November 2022 at 6:40pm
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 16789
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 6:30pm
We lose a lock and 6 call up two locks. Why aren’t moriarty or waiwright called up for lydiate?
Back to Top
hoppy View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 May 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1790
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 6:16pm
app

Wales have suffered a double blow before the Tests against Georgia and Australia, with flanker Dan Lydiate and lock Will Rowlands ruled out by injury.

Ospreys' Lydiate damaged an arm and Dragons' Rowlands hurt a shoulder in last weekend's win against Argentina.

Wales coach Wayne Pivac has called up two uncapped locks, Exeter's Dafydd Jenkins, 19, and Ospreys' Rhys Davies, 24, into their squad.

But Pivac has not brought in a direct back-row replacement for Lydiate.

Wales face Georgia in Cardiff on Saturday, having bounced back from defeat by New Zealand to beat the Pumas.

Back to Top
Lincscarlet View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 April 2022
Location: bermuda
Status: Offline
Points: 399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lincscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 12:21pm
my summary:

When we cut out the lazy penalties, we took control for 50 minutes.  If we can give away 6 or less a game going forwards we will always have a chance. 

What Priestland offers is a calm head and a big boot, I quite like the idea of him on the bench to close out games.  Anscombe...never been a fan, I don't think he's up to it but the coaches do.  You used to be able to count and every 3rd pass he received he would kick it away - regardless of other options.  Would love to see Sam get a start at 10, I imagine his line kicking is holding him back at the moment. 

Tomos Williams had a good game, he's inconsistent but which welsh 9 isn't out of the current crop?  His defence was really good and I would imagine that's one of the things the coaches like about him. 

Tipuric didn't really offer much aside from a few tackles, thoroughly shown up by Jac Morgan.  When Elias came on at 6 I had flashbacks of Ken playing 8 for us the other year lol.   It's a shame we can't play them both at the same time because we sorely need ball carriers in the pack.  Would be very interested to see Josh and Jac with Faletau as the back row for the next 2 games.

It's a bit worrying that Pivac has had 3.5 years to get an A team and a B team in place with a unified game plan and playing style, yet we seem to have none of that.  Still, it's not going to change so I'll just be crossing my fingers until the world cup.  With Italy looking better with every game, scotland consistently inconsistent, ireland and france demolishing everyone and england full of big game players the 6N should be pretty tasty next year is all I can say.
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 14667
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 10:21am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Yeah he was good, the game suited him when he came on.

If we're not looking further that the WC and going to try and bludgeon our way through a la Gats then we could do a lot worse than having Webb, Priestland, JBW and North as our 9, 10, 12, 13 combo.

Webb is playing as well/better than Cawdor & Hardy thats for sure but surely the idea must be to play with tempo so, for me, Tomos and we should give Blacker a start this weekend. Priestland was assured & can close out a game with good tactical kicking but as above we must surely be looking to play with tempo.

We are not going to succeed in 6 nations or World Cup by trying to bully teams. Ireland, France & England will more than match us up front; we don't have a dominant scrum; without Francis we don't trust our bench tight head with more than 10 minutes; our lineout is iffy & we are short of carriers. Pivac's selections have been scatter gun with no sign of a co-ordinated playing style. 

I'd agree with all that but we don't appear to be looking to play a high tempo game so might as well select a team that can defend, kick well and have some gain line who can do a job against Fiji and potentially Oz. We've then probably got England who we could potentially frustrate and see where we go from there.

We're nearly there now in terms of the WC so can't see a big shift in selection or style.
Back to Top
Fscarlet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 26 January 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 9:56am
I want us to go strong this weekend, rather than make the usual wholesale changes, & actually look to put a big score on Georgia. 


Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 16011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Yeah he was good, the game suited him when he came on.

If we're not looking further that the WC and going to try and bludgeon our way through a la Gats then we could do a lot worse than having Webb, Priestland, JBW and North as our 9, 10, 12, 13 combo.

Webb is playing as well/better than Cawdor & Hardy thats for sure but surely the idea must be to play with tempo so, for me, Tomos and we should give Blacker a start this weekend. Priestland was assured & can close out a game with good tactical kicking but as above we must surely be looking to play with tempo.

We are not going to succeed in 6 nations or World Cup by trying to bully teams. Ireland, France & England will more than match us up front; we don't have a dominant scrum; without Francis we don't trust our bench tight head with more than 10 minutes; our lineout is iffy & we are short of carriers. Pivac's selections have been scatter gun with no sign of a co-ordinated playing style. 
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 14667
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 9:41am
Yeah he was good, the game suited him when he came on.

If we're not looking further that the WC and going to try and bludgeon our way through a la Gats then we could do a lot worse than having Webb, Priestland, JBW and North as our 9, 10, 12, 13 combo.
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 16789
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 9:07am
I thought priestland played well when he came on in fairness
Back to Top
Gate12 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 14667
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 8:51am
9, 10, 12, 13 remains a problem for Wales, we haven't really got anyone in any of those positions that offers control and attacking prowess and haven't for a while. Out of all the older players the 1 I'd probably have brought back would have been Webb if it's a case of not looking further than the WC.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 16011
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I don't think the coaches can be blamed for the penalties, a lot of it is over eagerness to get off the line. Make no mistake, Argentina are a tough team to play against & that was a big victory for us, we got better as the game went on. LRZ, Ken, Tomos & Tompkins impressed the most for me.

I feel sorry for Tompkins as he, for me, is currently one of the first names on the teamsheet & he keeps getting taken off early when playing well. The best move would have been to take Cuthbert off & move North to wing.



I cannot share your sympathy for Tompkins - I find myself for once agreeing with Pivac. He is all action I admit but I fail to see any end product. He isn't big enough to take the ball up so you expect a clever kicker/distributor which he is neither. His passing is woeful for an international 12 & he isn't the best defensively. For me he wouldn't be in the squad let alone the team. 
Back to Top
Fscarlet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 26 January 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2022 at 8:17am
I don't think the coaches can be blamed for the penalties, a lot of it is over eagerness to get off the line. Make no mistake, Argentina are a tough team to play against & that was a big victory for us, we got better as the game went on. LRZ, Ken, Tomos & Tompkins impressed the most for me.

I feel sorry for Tompkins as he, for me, is currently one of the first names on the teamsheet & he keeps getting taken off early when playing well. The best move would have been to take Cuthbert off & move North to wing.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.062 seconds.